Sawtooth Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 I'm currently toying with some new background ideas for a renegade force. I'm concerned about creating an unrealistic number of Demon Princes arising within the ranks of this force. The rough details are a Chapter that went rogue around M33, moved to and operates out of the Maelstrom, and became extremely dedicated to Slaanesh. So that's about eight millenia of zealous dedication to Chaos. One or two princes arising from this force seems reasonable to me. But what about six? You can see as a Slaaneshi force I have a certain obsession with the number six in any army I build, but I've never really had a good grasp on just how many demon princes are running around in the warp. And please note this is strictly background material, I don't expect to field six demon princes so much as write background for them and make different models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I don't see a reason why it would be impossible to have 6 Daemon princes in your warband after around 8 millenia of loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipertaja Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 One to two is what I'd imagine at most. It shouldn't really be an easy achievement IMO. However, you could perhaps have more at your disposal if the chapter chooses to honour and worship other slaaneshi daemon princes they are aware of...sort of like minor gods under Slaanesh or something similar to how catholics regard their saints. Some chaos forces do this type of thing especially in the old realm of chaos books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Well becoming a Prince is a lengthy process so obviously there will be different degrees of 'Prince' going on. How about some of these Princes being at different stages of the process so while there is about 6 'Princes', only like one or two are fully fledged ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipertaja Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Well becoming a Prince is a length process so obviously there will be different degrees of 'Prince' going on. How about some of these Princes being at different stages of the process so while there is about 6 'Princes', only like one or two are fully fledged ones. Purely on the subject of daemon prince levels and ranks I'd agree. I'd imagine chaos has some ludicrously overcomplicated and nonsensical ever changing pecking order. (still think the chapter wouldn't have that many though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Personally I think 6 is too many but if he wants that many then that is probably your best bet for explaining why there are so many. Even then it's very unlikely something like that would happen. The situation I described might explain 3 in a large force with out too much flak. Beyond that it starts entering the realm of bad authors and wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipertaja Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Personally I think 6 is too many but if he wants that many then that is probably your best bet for explaining why there are so many. Even then it's very unlikely something like that would happen. The situation I described might explain 3 in a large force with out too much flak. Beyond that it starts entering the realm of bad authors and wishful thinking. I agree that 3 is pretty ok I guess and 6 IMO is ok if some have other origins...that was my explanation I gave earlier. Yes, this is of course just my opinion since this thread exists to ask for opinions. Of course it's you army, sawtooth...if you decidedly want 6, then 6 it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Crippster Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 I would say three is too many, but background-wise it can be whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 And...this is why Gav Thorpe needs to be sacrificed to the Chaos gods. No warband should have more than one daemon prince unless it's a black crusade that is actually comprised of many different warbands. Repeat after me folks, Chaos lords DO NOT SHARE POWER. This was represented in rules pretty much as long as Chaos has been around until this last codex and even then, the creators have said that they "didn't realize people would take more than one daemon prince". Seriously, it's a Chaos warband not the bleeding United Nations, there's no "everybody gets a vote" thing going on, there is just one supreme leader that gets the lion's share of the gifts for his warband's accomplishments. Sorry if this comes off as a rant, but I do sometimes nerdrage over the things that this latest Diet Chaos fluff leads to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummus Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 just invent some fluff for it ie maybe they were doing an experiment with a new type of warp energy and it went wrong and they got turned into demon princes. kind of like how hulk was created with the radiation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzdougs Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 its possible but unlikely that a chapter could manifest six daemon princes.hoever,i don't think six daemon princes could really cooperate.the chapter would be split into different war bands,and the princes would move out to forge their own empires or simply kill in the name of slaanesh.i can't imagine any daemon prince,least of all a slaanesh one,wanting to share power with any one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Eh, Daemon Princes can defer power (they did gain their power by obeying the ever-changing whims of a powerful warp-entity, after all). It wouldn't be unreasonable for two daemon princes to: have separate warbands, and organize a joint raid, have one be the weaker of the two, dominated by its superior, or perhaps they simply both serve an even higher power. Daemon Princes can also exist purely in the warp, similarly to regular daemons, and one might have been "granted" to the force by a chaos god. Also, note that they're present in the daemons codex and cannot be an HQ choice. There's a codex filled with daemon princes which always have to defer command! There are plenty of fluff opportunities for daemon princes cooperating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 The concept is not to have several demon princes commanding the renegade Chapter at once. It's more a matter of princedom being the ultimate reward for the overall lord, one after another, who then become mostly wrapped up in their own hedonism and thus release control of the Chapter to the next in line. My initial concept is to have the Chapter attempt to fulfill a prophecy given them by an oracle of Slaanesh, and a key part is six rising to demonhood. Each champion who ascends embodies one of the six Slaaneshi virtues as laid out in the story of Slaanesh's palace in the demon codex (Avidity, Gluttony, Carnality, Paramountcy, Vainglory, and slothful Idleness. These different princes would mostly be wrapped up in their own indulgences, but manifest sometimes through supplications from their Chapter. For instance the Idle prince is drawn into prepared vehicles to possess them, and slumber within until deployed on the field, and thus the dreams turn to nightmares and the vehicle 'sleepwalks' the prince's mad dreams and acts them out on the battlefield. The Vainglory prince will manifest and fight on the battlefield, but only so that allies and enemies can see him and be in awe. The idea would be to have five princes ascended by present day. The current lord of the Chapter is a sorcerer who manifests Avidity through an insane lust for sorcerous power and arcane artifacts. He walks a tightrope in his desire to ascend and fill the sixth position and thus complete whatever mad prophecy the Chapter believes in. If he is incautious he could wind up a mindless spawn or slain in battle. Also, with one last slice of glory available to the Chapter through one final ascension, any of his followers not totally lost in the hedonism of the Chapter wants him removed so that they can fill his place and reap the potential benefits. All in the conceptual stages just now, just some of the mad ideas knocking around in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzdougs Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 i really like your explanation.the concept of daemon princes at different "levels" makes it much more posible.however i think there should be one daemon prince more powerful than his rivals.perhaps the original chapter master or head librarian?A slaanesh war band needs figure head worthy of their adulation. i love the idea of a daemonic prophesy. i would love to see a daemon prince possessing a landraider. nice work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I liked the way it was done in 3.5[duh ] there was a difference between stature DPs that were equal to GD in power and status and "normal" joe DP who were guys with a few gifts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starblayde Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 All in the conceptual stages just now, just some of the mad ideas knocking around in my head. When you get deep into the hows and whys of Chaos, the warp and similar, it all starts to go a little bit clinically insane (best described, so far as I've read, in the HH novel Battle For The Abyss). Slaanesh and Tzeentch are the biggest mind-screwers (No, not in that way. Well, mostly not in that way :lol: ) of the four, too. I'd say this would have to be a phenomenally-blessed Chapter of Slaanesh followers to have six DPs at one point or another. I envisage the endgame of them ruling (eventually, if the prophecy is true) a circlet of six sister daemon-filled worlds around a black sun, raging eternal and excessive war and love (well, at least not in the romantic sense) to the full upon each other for all eternity. Wowza. I agree that warbands under each prince would be constantly warring with each other in both reality and the warp. Perhaps this is the whole idea of the prophecy anyway? There should also be a history of wannabe Lords, Sorcerors, etc, failing to ascend to Daemonhood, ending up as gibbering spawn who's purpose is simply to be driven into battle. Being the leader of a Chaos Warband, even a traitor marine chapter, is not a simple Daemon Prince production line, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 There should also be a history of wannabe Lords, Sorcerors, etc, failing to ascend to Daemonhood, ending up as gibbering spawn who's purpose is simply to be driven into battle. Being the leader of a Chaos Warband, even a traitor marine chapter, is not a simple Daemon Prince production line, after all. This was the toughest part of my concept to swallow, because I knew that many champions who aspired to greatness would just end up mindless spawn. Reading the views of others here as made a few things click, though. Some of my initial chosen six princes would only appear as background figures. I am now thinking, it's a Chaos prophecy, why not cut the number of princes, and instead have figures who have become spawn, but still embodiments of those Slaaneshi virtues I mentioned. My idea for the Carnality figure was a particularly monstrous and bloated thing spawning all kinds of horrors. It still works as a spawn. Hmm, this may yet work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrés Pacheco Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 And...this is why Gav Thorpe needs to be sacrificed to the Chaos gods. No warband should have more than one daemon prince unless it's a black crusade that is actually comprised of many different warbands. Repeat after me folks, Chaos lords DO NOT SHARE POWER. This was represented in rules pretty much as long as Chaos has been around until this last codex and even then, the creators have said that they "didn't realize people would take more than one daemon prince". Seriously, it's a Chaos warband not the bleeding United Nations, there's no "everybody gets a vote" thing going on, there is just one supreme leader that gets the lion's share of the gifts for his warband's accomplishments. Sorry if this comes off as a rant, but I do sometimes nerdrage over the things that this latest Diet Chaos fluff leads to. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Seriously, it's a Chaos warband not the bleeding United Nations, there's no "everybody gets a vote" thing going on, there is just one supreme leader that gets the lion's share of the gifts for his warband's accomplishments. not in the new fluff . happy chaos family is the norm and not just among mortals [what maybe could be explained with some odd ball fluff], but even demons of different gods are buds now . also some people may forget about it , but unless your a dedicted to a god guy , being a DP aint that fun . Sure your immortal , more powerful etc but you have no will of your own . Even marked dudes can decide to do this or that a DP does only what his god tells him to do . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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