Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Well,today I have just a question...a simple one... Is possible create a CSM list without Lash? a real work army list,a tournament's list or a friendly one...In every forum(Spanish,English,French,Russian,....)three quarters of CSM list are with one o two Slaanesh daemon prince(s),Lash and wings...and plague marines/Thousand sons/lot of plasma & melta guns and obliterators.... So,today, are we forced to use Lash for an operational CSM list ? Thanks in advance for your answers and opinions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord gunthar Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I hardly ever use lash just because people hate you for it, i usually use Wings MoN Warptime or Wings MoT Doombolt, Warptime. Just a personal preferance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Worms Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Lash has a bad rap. Not entirely undeserved but realistically, what are you up against? I wouldn't enjoy myself if I was playing against a quadruple rune-priest army, or a Mephiston/Dante tag team of fromage. The whole game has degenerated into a stinky-cheese competition where everybody is peer reviewing one another's obnoxious army lists. Apparently Lash should be removed, but the fact that even a small percentage of people think that Mephiston should be as powerful as he is throws the opinion of the general public out the window as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I think Lash is just GW's way of apoligizing for creating Doomrider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Kaelgrim Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 But Doomrider is awesome! His head is on fire and he does cocaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Lash is great, but I almost never use it. It certainly isn't necessary. I play Khorne-marked princes, and they do great for their point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Is possible create a CSM list without Lash?a real work army list,a tournament's list or a friendly one Well I never use Lash in my Iron Warriors tournament force because it dose not fit the background (even though we where class as Slannesh follower in Slaves of Darkness era) & I feel it is over rated to be honsty & people make a big fuss, much like Assault cannon in 4th ed. Sure it can move unit of object, help you with Blast Temp or to get into close combat, but it one unit per turn & to be honsty when ever I fought a chaos army with lash, the Daemon Prince is usely killed by turn 3 be it Close Combat or blasted by a Deep Striken unit of Terminators. I also use normal chaos marines w/Icon of Glory mounted in Rhinos with Obliterators & two unit of Terminators. On another note, there was a pure Khorne bezerker force that the GT, at Heat 1 it came 10th overall & won the chosen of Khorne award (most Vpts) & then 6th that the UKGT Finials. I just never been impress by it, like I said I would rather have my Daemon Prince given Warp Time for those re-rolls, though I never really look that the other psychic power to be honsty as I never really use them on my Daemon Prince anyway (warp time was to fill points I had left in a 1750pts tournament also I alway favour re-rolls more than anything). As my warsmith never been one for the psychic powers. Lash rarely work against me, maybe because I also like useing tank heavy armies. But it will only get one unit per game before he is blasted be it my Iron Warriors or my Space Wolves. IP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Is possible create a CSM list without Lash? Uhh yes? I'm actually suprised so many people still include it. It means no Mark of Nurgle and it means 50 points spent on something which doesnt work all the time. (princes could die, failing psychic tests, anti-psycher, mechanized). I think the times it really works is against oponents who arent that good (in the sense that they cant counter it well), so you would otherwise win against those anyway. The people who still include it in every damn list they build, probably live a bit too much in the past and I dont think they rank high with it on tournements. So yes its entirely possible. I never use Lash yet I win more than enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I'm surprised people still use Lash in a tournament setting, given that it has been completely crippled by Codex creep. Edit: unless they field fluffy Slaaneshi lists at tournaments that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I never use lash and do fine. If you loook in our army review sec, you'll see that there are plenty of army list w/ out lash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sandbot Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I've never used Lash. Primarily because I prefer WoC or WT (or both). The other reason is because I mainly fight mechanized Black Templar, mechanized Marines and Grey Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Is possible create a CSM list without Lash? of course, but if you do expect to be the center of hatred and be despised by almost every chaos player and every competitive player that frequents any forum, because if your not playing Lash you'll be treated as some form of sub-human moron. but for everyone else whos opinions actually matter doing a chaos list without lash and still being good is very easy and possible, heck a chaos list with out a daemon prince full stop is still viable in any setting. and as said lash is easily countered these days, but some players will refuse thats even possible and will still treat you like a moron for not taking it. in the end do what you want with your army, and if someone comes along demanding you take lash or forever be damned just ignore and actually listen to players with a brain. its actually one of the things that turned me off doing chaos, listening to all the players worship the lash while at the same time beating down the codex to nothing, I didn't wanna be associated with that part of the crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I think part of the reason that Lash has such a bad reputation is because of its history. It was the first of the "super-rules" that clued GW in to the fact that it doesn't matter if you stick a few unquestionably overpowered rules into a Codex, as long as you sprinkle a few of them throughout every subsequent release. In general, 40K players generally don't care about overall game balance; they're only bothered if other people's Codexes are broken. Thus the driving paradigm of 5th Edition was born. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Lists I use that do not need nor depend on lash. 3 Land raiders, 2 units of 10 zerkers with fist champs, one unit of 8 zerkers with twin claw khorne lord at 1498 points. The list is nasty and doesn't like first turn assaults. Why? Because it sits back and hammers things away for a turn or two before charging into the exposed enemy with assault ramps. Taking out transports eliminating a melta bike unit or speeders, etc. Then relies on melee to tie down a good core of shooting so the raiders can shoot/ram to their hearts content without worry of being shot up at short range. A lash could help, but it's not required and wouldnt allow such a list to exist at 1500 point level, I rather have the 4 berzerkers it would cost me to get a lash in there, and I want to keep the melee claw lord because he fits in the transport, abusing units like dire avengers without a prince exposed. 6 Land raiders, 3 units of 5 marines with a meltagun each unit, 3 units of 3 terminators, 1 lash sorcerer at 2000 points even. (forgot the rest that was in the list, haven't used it in a few weeks - I was asked not to play this list for a while) I rarely get to use the lash sorcerer, I only added him because a prince would be exposed. Honestly I have been putting different powers on him with the mark of slaanesh, because the army does its work at range most of the game. Lash does hardly anything at all here! (warptime seems to do better with an I6 sorcerer~) 3 defiler, 3 melee dreadnought, Abbadon, Prince, Greater Daemon and the rest filled with regular marines, half in rhinos and champs at 2000 points even. (again, I forgot what is exactly in the list, been asked to not play it for several months due to it stomping the current nidzilla, blood angel dreadzilla yet to be confirmed to wipe it as of yet, but Abbadon does wipe the floor with the BA special characters, already checked that!) 30 nurgle bike list with flamers and powerfist champs, two sorcerers with rot on bikes and lots of lesser daemons with the minimum 2 units of marines to hold base objectives. Have not used this list in forever, and there is a reason for that. I am not nice with bike armies. I surround transports with assault and make sure nothing exits the transport without being within 1" distance both wreck and destroyed results, people plain refuse to fight me if I use more than 10 bikes in a game. (among lots of other things I don't want to dive into, politics - ugh) There are plenty of lists where you over specialize, and have just enough for the basic troops but don't want to spare the points for a simple lash HQ where something else fares better in the theme. Be it nurgles rott for tough bikes needing attacks in melee. Or huge tough creatures in a zilla list. Or barely enough space in a raider zerker rush that cannot be performed as well at 2000 points and impossible to do at 1000 points. (The 6 raider force is a friends force I'm hanging onto, damn you Mutt-Man! your going to make me get more raiders to make that army) You just have to find out what is THAT list you like so much, that lash is not required in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 wait,wait....6 Land Raiders!!??How?:eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 3 as transports for the termies and 3 heavy support choices, doesn't leave much room for anything else tho eh? everything naked apart from the meltas in your csm squads as described and the total comes to 1970 pts, not something i think would work tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 What???That's impossible....LR are Heavy Support,Terminators can have a LR like assigned transport,but LR is still a Heavy Support option even for termis...to 3 HS options,no more...the only assigned transport is the rhino in a CSM Army... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Worms Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 the only assigned transport is the rhino in a CSM Army... Except that they aren`t. The entry for Terminators clearly states that a LR can be taken as a dedicated transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 but if you use an Army builder,you can't take a LR(and a terminator squad,of course),a Vindicator, a Obliterator squad and..a havoc squad for example.AB says "error,you can't have 4 HS options,only 3"...and in terminator entry you can't buy a LR like dedicated transport.... Are you sure that's legal? I say that because I have three AB versions(original,a Spanish version,and other),and in no one of these I can't buy LR like a dedicated transport,only like HS option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 i use the lonewolf army builder and it works fine there ( in transport options for terminators), not that it matters if you can or can't in an army builder program as it states in the codex anyway :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Worms Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 but if you use an Army builder,you can't take a LR(and a terminator squad,of course),a Vindicator, a Obliterator squad and..a havoc squad for example.AB says "error,you can't have 4 HS options,only 3"...and in terminator entry you can't buy a LR like dedicated transport....Are you sure that's legal? I say that because I have three AB versions(original,a Spanish version,and other),and in no one of these I can't buy LR like a dedicated transport,only like HS option That`s what the codex says. I don`t have it on hand, but both the section where they show the pictures with the fluff about how awesome and unbeatable they are has it, as well as the army list section in the back. It`s a phantom way for IW players to have extra HS slots without explicitly giving it to them. It`s not like Chaos has any real HS choice other than Obliterators and defilers anyway. I never took it to a tournament, since our Land Raiders are crap, but it IS legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 oh yeah of course...6 land raiders...nice...but we're CSM...no Imperial Guard... oh god...I wanna play warhamer 40k..no Epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Worms Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 .oh god...I wanna play warhamer 40k..no Epic! This is seriously the first time I heard anybody say that. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 well...may be the reason is that I have play warhammer since 1995...and I still remember how confortable was go to play with a single normal size case of miniatures....:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 but if you use an Army builder,you can't Army builder blows IMO (for many reasons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.