Lash,lash,lash...always Lash!

[IronWinds]

Is possible create a CSM list without Lash?

 

Yes. I actually agree with many here that it is overrated. If your taking a lash prince then you are not taking a warptime prince. Lash might give your oblits better targets, but he himself is overpriced for what he can kill so those oblits better kill a lot. A warptime prince on the other hand is quite reasonable for what he can kill.

 

 

but if you use an Army builder,you can't

 

then use a codex...

[Seahawk]

of course, but if you do expect to be the center of hatred and be despised by almost every chaos player and every competitive player that frequents any forum, because if your not playing Lash you'll be treated as some form of sub-human moron.

 

but for everyone else whos opinions actually matter doing a chaos list without lash and still being good is very easy and possible, heck a chaos list with out a daemon prince full stop is still viable in any setting.

 

and as said lash is easily countered these days, but some players will refuse thats even possible and will still treat you like a moron for not taking it.

+1 to this.

 

It's incredibly easy to win with Chaos without lash. Or plasma cannons even, though then it gets a smidge harder.

 

but if you use an Army builder,you can't

As said, that's why AB is a POS and supporting your LGS (or even ebay) with codex purchases is a far superior pursuit. Remember, if there is a conflict between AB and the actual codex, AB is always in the wrong :).

[minigun762]

but if you use an Army builder,you can't

Army builder blows IMO (for many reasons)

 

Am I the only person who does their list building by hand?

Give me a pen and stickie note and I'm good to go!

[Zhukov]

but if you use an Army builder,you can't

Army builder blows IMO (for many reasons)

 

Am I the only person who does their list building by hand?

Give me a pen and stickie note and I'm good to go!

Ah so you are the other one :P

 

I only type lists for tournements as there it is required. All other times I write it or actually, just have the list in my head. Its not that hard with chaos after a while :P

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

well I use pencil and calculator, too...but with army builder,I suppose everything would be unified...because I have a CSM codex in English..and another one in Spanish...and aren't same thing...

[Chimerical]

A Lash Sorcerer is the best HQ choice we have because of the synergistic potential, and two even more so. There's no question about it, just look at big no-comp tournament results.

 

Mech is not too serious an issue for the standard tourny dual-lash list either - 6/9 Obliterators plus various melta guns handle mech about as well as any list.

 

With wings and 24" range it can often avoid effects of anti-psychic stuff, though of course it's hurt by it. But it's not as affected by anti-psychic abilities as Warptime is.

 

 

Compared to that list, anything else from our 'dex is inferior power-wise. Only IG can compete with it, I think.

 

But if you're comparing to lists that you will get out of codices like Space Marines, Space Wolves, Nids, Orks, Daemons... then I think you can still make just as competitive a list without using Lash.

 

Aforementioned MoN Warptime Prince is a good place to start. Daemon Princes in general are just very points-efficient.

 

 

What IS more difficult, and what everyone would like to be able to do, is create a 'fluffy'/'pure cult' list (without Lash) that would compete in a no-comp tournament. The 'dex just wasn't written to be that way, unfortunately. Oblits are undivided and they're fairly essential to a competitive Chaos army, in my opinion.

[Zeller]

You ask if it's possible...of course it is.

 

Against the nids one might prefer a slaanesh lord with slaanesh demon weapon to slay MC.

 

In friendly games I run a termy lord with demon weapon. He's a pretty cool guy and isn't afraid of anything especially with his 10-man terminator body guard.

 

In support you can run regular princes with warptime and wings. Cheap and effective. Besides you can't use the lash if your demon prince, who excels in close combat by the way, is locked in combat as he should be.

 

Also take a look at the tzeentch demon weapon. D6 ranged shots at AP3 in addition to the D6 cc power weapon attacks. Pretty nasty against anything but termys, MC, and tanks. Shoot and charge.

 

You want a nasty guy...Abaddon is a nasty guy.

 

Kharne as well.

 

Heck I'm going to go so far as to assure you that CSM can win without any cult troops in a friendly environment. Termies, lots of infantry, havocs, and oblits.

[Dark Mechanicum]

I think i've made one lash list..never played it but made it just to see what would happen. It didn't work so Tzeetch came back.

 

I have only used AB when I had to write 25 lists in 6 hours for a bloody massive game as I suddenly became the runner of it. Other than that I write by hand and do it on the bus when traveling its fun that way.

 

My list for chaos doesn't have lash and i've seen a full Cults army really be scary: Tsons fighting mech guard and the mech guard were being penetrated by BoC many times over, lots of explosions and fun stuff like that.

[Spacefrisian]

Whats Lash?

 

I never used and never needed it i can do fine without a Lash of submission in my list.

[Zentor]

Whats Lash?

 

I never used and never needed it i can do fine without a Lash of submission in my list.

 

Lash of Submission. I've never used it either but I could tell how people'd get P.O.'d at us using it although theyre are some annoying things that other codexes have as well.

[Muskie]

Lists I use that do not need nor depend on lash.

 

3 Land raiders, 2 units of 10 zerkers with fist champs, one unit of 8 zerkers with twin claw khorne lord at 1498 points.

 

6 Land raiders, 3 units of 5 marines with a meltagun each unit, 3 units of 3 terminators, 1 lash sorcerer at 2000 points even. (forgot the rest that was in the list, haven't used it in a few weeks - I was asked not to play this list for a while)

 

3 defiler, 3 melee dreadnought, Abbadon, Prince, Greater Daemon and the rest filled with regular marines, half in rhinos and champs at 2000 points even. (again, I forgot what is exactly in the list, been asked to not play it for several months due to it stomping the current nidzilla, blood angel dreadzilla yet to be confirmed to wipe it as of yet, but Abbadon does wipe the floor with the BA special characters, already checked that!)

 

30 nurgle bike list with flamers and powerfist champs, two sorcerers with rot on bikes and lots of lesser daemons with the minimum 2 units of marines to hold base objectives. Have not used this list in forever, and there is a reason for that. I am not nice with bike armies. I surround transports with assault and make sure nothing exits the transport without being within 1" distance both wreck and destroyed results, people plain refuse to fight me if I use more than 10 bikes in a game. (among lots of other things I don't want to dive into, politics - ugh)

 

You really like to make friends and influence people I see. Where are the pics of these armies? It used to be all the crazy stuff people wanted to proxy, which is why I like playing with only fully painted and WYSIWYG models which is how the owner of the game store I go to rolls too. Even GW backed off from the must be painted to play in the store, but Darren and I are old school I guess.

 

Secondly the first list is quite fluffy I think. I dreamed up the six landraider list when the codex was in rumor mode, but never had the money or the desire to paint five more landraiders. I saw a two defiler, three dread, two deamon prince Iron Warriors list at the last tournament I went too. He had Olbiterators for his third HS choice. He smoked his first opponent but lost to a whiney Necron player in his second then he was out of the running for best general so I guess he just bitched for an hour about the Necron player. That tournament had painting, comp, etc. Nik won with his Death Korps, but at Gottacon my buddy Bryce won so he has the LV ticket already. I'm not a really competitive player anymore, but I've never used Lash, the Iron Warrior guy had Lash on both his princes. He liked to make friends and influence people too I guess.

 

:jaw:

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4436683432_d19147fe9d_o.jpg

 

In Vancity we look forward to the Astronomi-con most of all, so their comp rules figure more and more into our armor building. Though lately I've gone back to just doing cool stuff rather than trying to get a perfect comp score. I think my list this year is 18/20 under Astro rules, again no Lash.

[Dark Mechanicum]

Very cool and looks very good.