Blatant SOB Wishlisting

[Judanas]

Heya,

 

I was wondering what people were interested in seeing in the next Sisters of Battle codex? Plausible, Implausible it's all good.

 

Me, I would like to see;

 

Some differences between the various 'Sisters with x weapons' squad. Maybe something like scout for the Dominions, they are more than a little...well...dull, as they are just basic sisters with a couple more special weapons.

 

Rules for making a custom saint. Much like the Chapter Masters have a plethora of options so you can make your own, it'd be nice to be able to make Saint x, who has x, x and x and gives the squad x.

 

Sisters Hospilitar. The Sisters of Battle have some of the best medics in the Imperium, I'd be cool to have them available much like Apothecaries.

[ArmouredWing]

Yup, medics would be good. I'd be all for some FNP goodness in my sister squads.

 

I think in this age of mechanised might we definitely need some more vehicle options. Hellhounds would be a good start and I remember one of the studio guys at the 5th ed release stating that he's like to see a/the MM chimera opened up for sisters usage. Personally I'd also like the option to legally field some valyries as SoB transports without the need to ask to use IA rules.

 

In terms of what else I'd like? Well, I've always had a hankering for biker sisters. I know there's a lot of folks who say that they don't want them going down the marine route but the modelling option has always been very appealing.

Seraphim need a rethink to make them appealling again. Not sure what the best way to do it would be without blatantly ripping off assault marines but at the very least we need a way to enable them to count as scoring units again...without having to take the 'living saint' as an option to achieve this.

 

I'd agree that Dominions also need to be worked on and I'd have to say that outflanking or similar would be a simple and effective option to buff them up and make them a viable unit to field.

 

Finally there's a couple of things I'd like to see done with celestians. Firstly lets get our holy hatred rule changed back to 'preferred enemy:everyone' and then give them some loadout options to make better use of their obvious CC tendencies, i.e. bolt pistols & CC weapons as an option, having the option to give the whole unit sarissas and/or give them the option to equip storm shields or equivalent. Again, it's an easy way to make them just a little more than a unit which can unlock extra immolators or act as a retinue for the canoness.

 

There's probably more but that'll do for me for now.

[Judanas]

Seraphim need a rethink to make them appealling again. Not sure what the best way to do it would be without blatantly ripping off assault marines but at the very least we need a way to enable them to count as scoring units again...without having to take the 'living saint' as an option to achieve this.

 

...

 

Finally there's a couple of things I'd like to see done with celestians. Firstly lets get our holy hatred rule changed back to 'preferred enemy:everyone' and then give them some loadout options to make better use of their obvious CC tendencies, i.e. bolt pistols & CC weapons as an option, having the option to give the whole unit sarissas and/or give them the option to equip storm shields or equivalent. Again, it's an easy way to make them just a little more than a unit which can unlock extra immolators or act as a retinue for the canoness.

 

Agreed on the Seraphim. I'd like to see them be a bit more shooty. It would take them away from the assualt marine area if they were more balanced. I'd like to see them shoot twice with thier two pistols, it would make them as shooty as a regular sister with a bit more movement and melee.

 

Squad wide sarrissa and favored enemy: everyone would be interesting for celestians. Would make them able to cause some wounlds in assault without going the furious charge and str boosting all over the place that some of the newer codexs seem to be doing.

[Chengar Qordath]

Yup, medics would be good. I'd be all for some FNP goodness in my sister squads.

Agreed; seems reasonably likely given that the SM and IG have medic-esque units.

 

Finally there's a couple of things I'd like to see done with celestians. Firstly lets get our holy hatred rule changed back to 'preferred enemy:everyone' and then give them some loadout options to make better use of their obvious CC tendencies, i.e. bolt pistols & CC weapons as an option, having the option to give the whole unit sarissas and/or give them the option to equip storm shields or equivalent. Again, it's an easy way to make them just a little more than a unit which can unlock extra immolators or act as a retinue for the canoness.

I would personally lean towards splitting Celestians similar to how SM vets were split; cc-focused veterans, and shooting veterans. Naturally, if we get a split like that there need to be enough differences to avoid turning them into Sternguard/Vanguard clones. I like the idea of a squad or sword-and-shield celestians; makes for a very appealing visual image.

 

Also, let me be the first to vote for Repentia that are effective and don't die before doing anything useful, and having more than one viable HQ option in an SoB list. I would also like to see all the arcane and annoying unlocking requirements dropped from the codex; it is annoying to have to jump through all kinds of hoops just to use half the models in our codex.

[Verythrax Draconis]

Also, let me be the first to vote for Repentia that are effective and don't die before doing anything useful, and having more than one viable HQ option in an SoB list. I would also like to see all the arcane and annoying unlocking requirements dropped from the codex; it is annoying to have to jump through all kinds of hoops just to use half the models in our codex.

Arcos and PEs as well :P

[Eltnot]

Canoness - WS5 so that she actually hits something on occasion.

 

Celestians - Sarissas so that they have something assaulty without being over the top.

 

Arcos + Repentia - FNP

 

Assassins - Either drop them or make them assassins, not just worthless hunks of lead.

 

Repressors - put them in the codex.

 

Bikes - Perhaps just attack bikes so that they're not the same as everyone else.

 

Retributors - bit dull at the moment. Not sure of what to do though as giving them Heavy Flamers would make them just nastier dominions.

 

PE - Either cheaper or stronger.

 

I'm not keen on the valkyrie idea as I don't think it really fits for sisters. That said I think we need something that can outflank somewhere in the army.

[Verythrax Draconis]

The valkyrie should be an IST asset, not SoB's.

[River Black]

Zealots... The ability to take a giant hoard or crazed fanatics that over whelm the emperors foes and lash it to death with neuro whips... or set them selves on fire and run into the enemy ranks in the emperors name.

[the jeske]

changes like Take canones cels with her are scoring . take palatin and one unit of serafins/dominions is scoring. A vet sis upgrade that makes a sister squad relentless [for the hvy support squad to make the choice exorcist/retributors a real one] . repentia made viable by costing 12 points [it was tested and there is absolutly no other way to make them not suck , even if they get FNP or 2A or even both , but with the same points cost]. serafins were never an assault unit like RAS and they should never be , give them option[on taking a palatin or special squad upgrade character] to move in the assault phase too[like tau suits or eldar jet bikes].

Dominions get to pick tank hunter or infiltration before the deployment starts .

this changes would buff the units never used , from game play point of view would give sob new tactics to use and a counter unit they didnt have without taking GK or using a canoness.

[werewolf_nr]

Well, you asked for wishlisting:

 

• Plastics duh
  
• Hospitaliers grant FNP
  
• Dialogus grant reroll reserve
  
• Celestians get CCW and True Grit:Bolter I like this idea a lot, the old models still work, they keep their shooty feel while still being better in CC
  
• Seraphim get option to double tap pistols either retaining or replacing the twinlink
  
• Ammo option for Exorcist or perhaps a volley or squads
  
• Repressors in the codex
  
• A variety of saints to choose from
  
• Cannoness options a la Chapter Master
  
• Improved saves against psychics 5+ instead of 6+
  
• Cannot take psychic in army for a little balance and flavor
  
• More sensible Repentia squads?
  

 

Honestly I would be thrilled with half this. I would even accept them just rewriting the codex with up-to-date rules and costs and not changing anything.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Have to say some very good points being listed here, i agree with most but others i dont.

 

Seraphin i would like to see with double shots or allowed power weapons each. Bring them into a power level with Banshee's, and other elite CC units. Its what they are as well. You cant be effective assault units without CCW's.

 

Celestiens to gain either better ammo, or holy weapons like powere weapons. Eg flails, braziers, maces, swords etc. Give them Preferred enemy, higher Initiative, Fearless for being the elite SoB they are.

 

Repentia, allow cheaper points, 4+ 5+inv save for the holyness devotions and fanatism. Allow them to Run and assault.

 

Deffinetly a must for Arco's and Penitant Engines, dont realy need to change the rules for either, 80 points isnt much for a d6 CCW str 10 attacks, that ignore shaken and stunned results. Maybe bring there armour to 12, 11, 11 or give them a Inv save aswell.

 

Repressors a new transport, dont like the idea of Melta Chimeras, we already have MM Immolators, its not in the feel of the SoB to use Chimera's. Were not the IGa all.

 

Strength increase for the Excorsist, Str 8 isnt good enough to combat av 14. it only glances and it needs either Str 9 or allow it to say, shoot 1d3 missiles at Str 10 or its normal d6 str8 missiles.

 

Bring in a Landraider variant, something like a Holy Shrine version, tank hunting version, dont need more horde killing.

 

Dominions, i like the idea of tank hunters, no to scout rules, we are not scouts, they dont skulk around there enemies. They sing hyms and march foward bring the power of fear, faith and the Emperor to them..them burn them to a crisp.

Retributors, dont need any changes, maybe allow 4 hvy flamers only.

 

i like the idea of a custom saint, yet its not viable. How would you consider the miniaure for them, is it male/female, power armoured, what weapons??

Allow more saints, yes, more special characters i agree, bring on 2nd ed characters. In another post just like this i listed the old special characters that need redisigning for 5th ed.

 

And finally allow more datasheets, and mostly i would love to see there very own Baneblade varient, something Holy, lots of icons, and special rules. But maybe that just wishful thinking.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

I would never ever want to see GW just make a codex ass out of themselves and just cut/paste vanilla marines into our new codex, its just something horrible to think of.

SoB are never Sm's and should never be considered like them in any way at all.

 

So, that said, please make it unique, keep the fluff, history and beautiful miniatures that you created i the past, so that it appeals to females, and new players in all.

Final note, Faith.

It doesnt need changes, maybe add more versatility to it, new powers, and its what bridges the gap between Sm's and IG and there battle tactics, and orders.

[the jeske]

Retributors, dont need any changes, maybe allow 4 hvy flamers only.

and when basic sob do great against horde and exorcist work better as anti tank , who will ever take them ? they need to be changed , because now [or with the ammo changes you propose] the playing with 3 exorcists will always be a better option.The last time a single retribution unit was viable was back in 4th ed when it was a very specific meta against harli slog lists [3x10] and against chaos slanesh syren demon prince builds.

Seraphin i would like to see with double shots or allowed power weapons each. Bring them into a power level with Banshee's, and other elite CC units. Its what they are as well. You cant be effective assault units without CCW's.

well the thing is that serafins are not assault sm . they are not hth units , not in the fluff and not in game play . there is no way to make them a viable hth unit with str 3 and i3 . of course GW could give them some sort of boost , but they would also cost more in points and become not viable again.

 

 

Dominions, i like the idea of tank hunters, no to scout rules, we are not scouts, they dont skulk around there enemies. They sing hyms and march foward bring the power of fear, faith and the Emperor to them..them burn them to a crisp.

scout doesnt mean skulking [that what infiltration means in fluff] ,it means your part of a spearhead force . again if the option is not there , then either dominios or serafins would be sub par . both do the same [anti tank or anti horde with melta/flamers] , you cant run too many non scoring units and as they are support they have to be spamed . the cheaper and more effective one would be used in all list[again the exorcist problem] .

Also it would open new options for "special character" builds . I would like to see at least two new characters for sob one a that allows a war of faith army [army wide relentless , but rage] and the head of a convent army that allows more celestians to be played [allowing them as troops or making the elite ones scoring]. Both armies would play different with two different and viable support choices.

[Warhorse47]

On the matter of making Sisters into SM, ie:bikers, it would be fun to see them get something like an attack bike/buggy with flamer. Stays with the flulf flavor, but makes it unique.

[the jeske]

make imolator a fast vehicle . give it twin hvy flamer basic and inferno canon as upgrade [but then loses the transport abilty].

[DerekLee688]

Keep the allied rules. I still want to cram 16 hot angry heavily armed/armored women in a SM land raider crusaider and destroy something with 32ish shots +re-roll rending.

[- 7eAL -]

Out collecting opinions for the Project ...

 

Canoness - WS5 so that she actually hits something on occasion.

Celestians - Sarissas so that they have something assaulty without being over the top.

Arcos + Repentia - FNP

Assassins - Either drop them or make them assassins, not just worthless hunks of lead.

Repressors - put them in the codex.

Bikes - Perhaps just attack bikes so that they're not the same as everyone else.

Retributors - bit dull at the moment. Not sure of what to do though as giving them Heavy Flamers would make them just nastier dominions.

PE - Either cheaper or stronger.

I'm not keen on the valkyrie idea as I don't think it really fits for sisters. That said I think we need something that can outflank somewhere in the army.

Canoness - Agreed.

Celestians - Not enough, but agreed.

Arcoflagellants and Repentia - Not enough, but agreed.

Assassins - Old news. Heard plenty of possibilities.

Repressors - Olde neuws. Already done.

Bikes - Heard similar. This sounds better.

Retributors - No solution.

Penitent Engines - Agreed. Probably more survivable.

Valkyries - Old news, but agreed.

 

 

changes like Take canones cels with her are scoring . take palatin and one unit of serafins/dominions is scoring. A vet sis upgrade that makes a sister squad relentless [for the hvy support squad to make the choice exorcist/retributors a real one] . repentia made viable by costing 12 points [it was tested and there is absolutly no other way to make them not suck , even if they get FNP or 2A or even both , but with the same points cost]. serafins were never an assault unit like RAS and they should never be , give them option[on taking a palatin or special squad upgrade character] to move in the assault phase too[like tau suits or eldar jet bikes].

Dominions get to pick tank hunter or infiltration before the deployment starts .

this changes would buff the units never used , from game play point of view would give sob new tactics to use and a counter unit they didnt have without taking GK or using a canoness.

Curious. Who tested the Repentia at 12 points per model, and under what rules and profile?

 

Seraphim should prioritize shooting. The problem is they need to survive a round of combat or two and then Hit and Run. Repeat. Since this requires a repeat, however, they should probably be shooting harder so they don't suffer so much in close combat. If Seraphim move in the Assault phase they would need to drop the jump pack rules with move 12", and then take the jet pack rules entirely for move 6", extra move 6".

 

Still think Dominions would be better with Scouts. Still think Tank Hunters will be redundant. Still think minefields suggestion in the Project provides better tactical variety and options.

 

 

Well, you asked for wishlisting:

• Plastics duh
  
• Hospitaliers grant FNP
  
• Dialogus grant reroll reserve
  
• Celestians get CCW and True Grit:Bolter I like this idea a lot, the old models still work, they keep their shooty feel while still being better in CC
  
• Seraphim get option to double tap pistols either retaining or replacing the twinlink
  
• Ammo option for Exorcist or perhaps a volley or squads
  
• Repressors in the codex
  
• A variety of saints to choose from
  
• Cannoness options a la Chapter Master
  
• Improved saves against psychics 5+ instead of 6+
  
• Cannot take psychic in army for a little balance and flavor
  
• More sensible Repentia squads?
  

Plastics - Yes.

Hospitalers - I would like to say done, but everyone else forgets or something.

Dialogus - Yes. Heard various things for Dialogus. This works better.

True Grit - Not really. Agreed with Eltnot on sarissas, but still think neither sarissas nor True Grit nor Ultragrit would be enough. Still think Preferred Enemy plus reroll to wound on improved sarissas would be better. Other options besides.

Seraphim - Maybe. Not double tap, but fire separately instead of twin linking.

Exorcist - Done.

Repressors - Done.

Saints - Saints? Maybe not. Characters, certainly.

Canonesses - I guess it can't be helped now. Assuming characters, again. Shrike and the rest aren't Chapter Masters, but it's the same idea.

Shield of Faith - Maybe. Still think something else similar to Shadow of the Warp would be more flavourful since it prevents self-buffs as well

No psykers - Doesn't work for allies and Inquisition. If this were Ecclesiarchy, then it wouldn't be a problem.

Repentia - Duh, yes. Still a lot of trouble figuring out effectiveness.

[the jeske]

Curious. Who tested the Repentia at 12 points per model, and under what rules and profile?

I think around a year ago here there was a large topic about it . repentias were tested with FnP , fleet , fnp and fleet [all with same points or rised] . and even with those buff they were costing too many points to be effective-[with 1A per model and considering some of them will die , the optimal size for their squads is around 14-16models ]. I was one of the people who were doing the testing and I tested them at 12 points with identical gear they have now . this way it was both possible to use them effective and fluffy , but unlike the repentias we have down taking them didnt gimp your list .

[- 7eAL -]

Curious. Who tested the Repentia at 12 points per model, and under what rules and profile?

I think around a year ago here there was a large topic about it . repentias were tested with FnP , fleet , fnp and fleet [all with same points or rised] . and even with those buff they were costing too many points to be effective-[with 1A per model and considering some of them will die , the optimal size for their squads is around 14-16models ]. I was one of the people who were doing the testing and I tested them at 12 points with identical gear they have now . this way it was both possible to use them effective and fluffy , but unlike the repentias we have down taking them didnt gimp your list .

I assume they would have to be tested again if the rest of the list changed, because support from other units makes a big difference.

[the jeske]

well here is how I see it . First of all , the way they are right now they are unplayable . they are a low armor low save unit and no matter what fluff says , they are a unit like ork boyz . yes they do have str 6 eviscerators , but only 1A and low WS and every is hiting before them . + this is a melta/flamer edition at 20 points they just won work ever , they need ablative wounds to a turn or two of shoting and then the loses they take due to being I1 [i think someone was testing them with huge ccw at 10-12 points and a squad upgrader of 10 points each for an eviscerator for each member]. As hth units work best at 8+ size I would say that runing them under 14-16 models just doesnt cut it . they also dont have a transport option[and they shouldnt have] . Take a look at the new BA dex . DC is a relentless FNP troops[but not scoring ] option with possible power weapon/fist /TH upgrade . they cost less then repentia.

A 160-200 pts repentia unit would be an interesting tactical option . one would have to ask himself maybe ill run 1 canoness and a repentia unit as tar pit/counter assault unit . OR maybe ill still run 2 canoness , but take one sob squad less , but be more agresive [or at least have option to do that].

[Dark Dajin]

Not particularly codex-rules, but for the models. More skin, longer hair. True they are already more slender then most models, but i'd love to paint a much more feminine army (no, not pink).

[Chengar Qordath]

Not particularly codex-rules, but for the models. More skin, longer hair. True they are already more slender then most models, but i'd love to paint a much more feminine army (no, not pink).

Lots of exposed skin doesn't really work in army that wears power armor, and contrary to what you would think from watching anime long hair is horrendously troublesome in a fight. I much prefer my Sisters as a serious, effective, and realistic looking army.

[- 7eAL -]

Not particularly codex-rules, but for the models. More skin, longer hair. True they are already more slender then most models, but i'd love to paint a much more feminine army (no, not pink).

Lots of exposed skin doesn't really work in army that wears power armor, and contrary to what you would think from watching anime long hair is horrendously troublesome in a fight. I much prefer my Sisters as a serious, effective, and realistic looking army.

Indeed. Robes are enough trouble in a fight. Then again I guess most of the world grows up on sanitized television, like WWE and MMA - hair-pulling, biting and all sorts of stuff is against the 'rules'.