Shrouding and IC's

[Gaz1858]

I know this is probably a question that has been brought up before but i couldnt find it through the search function.

 

If i take a Grey Knight Grand Master and attach him to a Tactical Squad will the squad as a whole benefit from Shrouding?

 

In terms of how the rule is worded all it says is that "when shooting at a unit of Grey Knights...". I am aware that the Grey Knight rule is not conferred onto the Tactical Squad but as shooting at the unit will include shooting at the GKGM......... see why i'm a bit unsure?

[breng77]

I have always played it as no, because IC don't transfer their special rules to the squad they join unless specifically stated.

[stinkenheim]

no, the unit is a not a unit of grey knights. its a tactical squad with attached GK.

if an Inq (for example) joined a GK unit then shrouding would still work as the unit is a GK squad with attached character.

[Gaz1858]

Thanks guys.

 

Out of interest as an IC doesnt the GKGM count as a unit in his own right whether attached to another unit or not? To be honest i dont mind if i dont get the benefit of the rule as thats not why im taking him (psychic hood and killy Force Weapon!) but i want to be clear on the ruling of this part to.

 

Comparing to the ruling on the Aegis which states that if any psychic power targets a GK unit or character then follow the rules for The Aegis. This would lead me to believe the Shrouding would work the same. Could be wrong though!

 

no, the unit is a not a unit of grey knights. its a tactical squad with attached GK.

if an Inq (for example) joined a GK unit then shrouding would still work as the unit is a GK squad with attached character.

 

By this wouldnt that mean that the GK's are transferring their special rules onto a non GK unit(the inq)? So surely an Inq joining a GK squad is the same as a GKGM joining another unit?

[stinkenheim]

as i understand it, a unit of tactical marines with any character attached are still tactical marines. likewise a unit of grey knights are still grey knights regardless of which character has joied them. I may be wrong on this but without it saying 'a unit soley comprising of grey knights' i would play it majority rules. it seems very unlikely to me that the incence coming from one guy would be enough to obscure an entire unit, but the smoke coming off of 10 guys could easily mask a single person.

 

on his own a GKGM is a GK unit and so would benefit from all the grey knight rules.

without reading the codex (its hidden some where in the depths of my geek room) i can't say for sure about the aegis, but i think it uses different wording to a wolf tail talisman (an item i am familair with). a WTT says that if the wearer or the unit they are joined with is attacked by a psychic power you get to try and stop it. i don 't think the aegis is phrased like that, i think it says something along the lines of 'a GK unit or character' which means it would be the same as the shrouding.

 

basically what i'm saying is i don't think you can claim all the defensive bonuses (hard to spot and anti psyker gubbins) from a single model in a unit without there being something written about them passing it on in their rules.

don't forget a character is considered part of the unit whilst he is attached to it, which is why i think a unit of GKs with Inq is still a unit of GK. A unit of marines with GKGM is still a unit of marines.

i realise this is mostly how i see things and extremely light on actual rules so if someone else can provide a rules quote then it would be great :)

[bt2278]

Aegis: "Every time an enemy psyker uses a power that targets a Grey Knight squad or character..."

Shrouding: "Each time an enemy unit fires at a unit of Grey Knights ist must check..."

 

So you're right. A Space Marine squad with GK IC is still a Space Marine squad with an attached character. Aegis and Shrouding should only work for weapons/powers/special rules that target the GK (Telion's Eye of Vengeance rule for example...)

 

Edit: Just realized that Telion doesn't target single models but changes the way wounds are allocated, so forget about that example and replace it with the Vindicare Assasin's Marksman rule *sigh*

[Gaz1858]

:lol: Dont worry about it mate your point still came across!