Ration Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Was talking to my friend the other day about the new thousand sons book in the heresy series. He pointed out that in that book the space wolves homeworld never had any Fenrisian wolfes that SF now ride in to battle with. Apparantley they all are transformed humans/Space marines that inhabitated fenris from before the crusades. I dont think he is lying about the books content but i think it sounds more than fishy and rather lame. So i thougt i could check with the real Wolves here :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfGuardVortek Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 While, I haven't read any of the Horus Heresy books(being a college student who likes computer games, Wh40k, and MTG), the first time I saw that particular bit of info was on this section of the B&C. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcus Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 HERESY! heresy and propaganda spread about by our hated nemesis Magnus! yes, the "wolves" on fenris arent terran wolves, but mutated humans? (let alone proto-marines) its HEEEEEERESY!!! *thows himslef on the floor and thrashes about foaming at the mouth* :rolleyes: :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ration Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 so sorry for not posting spolier warning but i did not think it was such a great spoiler? becuase its just something i have heard and nothing solid. I think it sounds dumb in either case (that Fenris wolves apparantley are some sort of were-humans). Does this mean we cant discuss this or just a friendly advice for the future? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Magnus implies that the wolves and Humans of Fenris share genetic markers (The canis helix). Geneticly redesighned so the original settlers could survive the hostile conditions. Basicly when he says no wolves on Fenris he means that the wolves are not native to the planet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansirill Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I don't recall there being anything in 1KS about the fenrisian wolves being devolved space marines. Characters in the book, including Magnus, do say that 'There are no wolves on Fenris.' Magnus even repeats himself and really doesn't seem to be making a joke. I got the impression that what he meant was not that the wolves are actually people, but that thinking of them as mere/terran wolves/dogs would be to grossly underestimate them. I believe Magnus said this after Ahriman noticed how intelligent or human the look from one of the wolves was, and it seemed to be a more flavorful way of saying 'Don't underestimate their wolves.' The devolved Space Marine angle is fun though. I may have to play around with it if I ever make fluff for an army I'm thinking about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baragash Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Funnily enough I read that section on the train to work this morning, the above post is pretty much it: Magnus implies they are devolved humans from the original settlers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I don't recall there being anything in 1KS about the fenrisian wolves being devolved space marines. Characters in the book, including Magnus, do say that 'There are no wolves on Fenris.' Magnus even repeats himself and really doesn't seem to be making a joke. I got the impression that what he meant was not that the wolves are actually people, but that thinking of them as mere/terran wolves/dogs would be to grossly underestimate them. I believe Magnus said this after Ahriman noticed how intelligent or human the look from one of the wolves was, and it seemed to be a more flavorful way of saying 'Don't underestimate their wolves.' The devolved Space Marine angle is fun though. I may have to play around with it if I ever make fluff for an army I'm thinking about. haven't read the book yet, but Lansirill seems to share how i saw it when it came up last. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ration Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Ok that makes more sense then my friend who kept blabbering on about the canin helix effect on space wolves and that wulfen became Fenrisan wolves later on. But why are not the wolves on frenris native to fenris? are they wild dogs evolved under thousands of years from the settlers or are they settles who just decided to go become werewolves on wholetime? I guess asking GW to keep it simple in fluff would be like asking the earth not to rotate around the sun... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Corwin Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Ultimate form of Wulfen. Original Fenris settlers were modified with canis DNA to allow them to survive on Fenris. That's why the Canis Helix is used first to allow the other organs to convert a Fenrisian into a space marine. This has been hinted at for a long time. Also why successor Space Wolf chapters don't work (tried once but it failed). At least that is what Magnus was talking about (of course he could have been lying - or was he). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Use the search function, this has already been discussed. Thanks for adding more clutter! But people will continue to reply anyway so why do I even bother? Unless the mods just link the topic but what do I know LOL jk sorry just grumpy today Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ration Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Ok so the Canis that the settlers get in to their DNA allows them to survive on Fenris (does this mean that no other humans can live there?) And ultimatly transformed them in to Fenrisian wolves that still live and breed out in the wilderness? Space wolf initiates that fail their test become early stage wulfen that in time transforms into full grown wolfs? Then i have one statment and one question That is the lamest thing i have ever heard since Blood angels "Vapmire" BS Why the hell does the Wolves drag along Wulfen on campains when they transforms into Flesh eating 2 ton fur,claw,teeth beasts? is that what happens when you want thunderwolf cav? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 another thing to consider is that what goes on in the BL books, isn't exactly GW fluff. it is the authors fluff on a situation and mybe he wanted to take a jab at the space wolves or something along those lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ration Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 I know authors writing isnt reflected directly in to the core game to units etc but fluff wise it must count as much as anything. I mean all the fluff is are stories about the armies of the 40th millenium. Dont get me wrong here i love the wolves and all their dynamic as a chapter and every background i have read from Ragnar blackmanes books to the new codex. But that they are some modern day verewolves rub me so very wrong and takes away the fact that they are "human" as far as i see it you could just as easily call them mutants IF this is true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Bloodhowl Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I think you may be misunderstanding the book, it states that the first settlers of Fenris created the Canis Helix gene for themselves in order to survive in the death world's climate. Now, hear me out, Fenrisian wolves are not not native to Fenris and nor are they natural. Instead what the book implies is that they where vat grown by the settlers (with the Canis Helix put into them) much like the Primarchs were by the Emperor. I do accept the possibility that human gentics were perhaps put into them as well but here is how I see it: What the statement "There are no wolves on Fenris" means is that Fenrisian wolves are not wolves, but vat grown creatures biologically engineered to mimic Terran wolves in all aspects, except that the effects of the Canis Helix mutated them into massive hulking pounds of muscle and teeth in order to survive on Fenris. Unfortunately, through the millennia the wolves became wild animals in the Fenrisian ecosystem and the descendants of the settlers forgot they were biologically engineered by their ancestors- to a point were they are believed to be naturally evolved wolves native to the world. The only reason that Magnus the Red can see past this human error and see them for what they are is because of his powers- he can see the genetic make-up of the wolves and recognizes them as unnatural (or because, as it is hinted to in the book, he has seen all of past time and knows of all that has happened). That is what it means by "There are no wolves on Fenris": there are no wolves on Fenris, only creatures biologically engineered to look like wolves. This idea behind Fenrisian wolves is much like the Imperial theory of the origins of the Kraken in the Space Wolves codex: that the Kraken are surviving life forms of a Tyranid Hive Fleet that came before Imperial History began. In terms of Wulfen, the Canis Helix can mutate the bioengineering of a Space Marine into them. The Space Wolves use them in battle as effective shock cavalry, in a sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeslad Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 As the statement was from magnus i beleive to be more of a slur on the space wolves than a statement meant to be taken literaly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I wouldn't classify it as devolution if the idea of being altered humans is the major idea, because humans didn't evolve from wolves (unless you read into Marvel too much and Wolverine and Sabretooth...) so it would be a case of evolution, changing to become better adapted. With regards to what it is, I don't know. Prospero Burns might offer more of an insight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Bloodhowl Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 As the statement was from magnus i beleive to be more of a slur on the space wolves than a statement meant to be taken literaly. That is plausible but remember that at the time of him saying it the SPace Wolves had not done anything to deserve his distaste. Whilst the other Primarchs may have harbored dark brooding s of Magnus's witchery, Magnus himself was always trying to create bonds of friendship with his brothers, he did not hate any of the, not even Russ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Oh Noah Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Russ had always disliked him though because of his sorcery he was just tolerated until he fell out of favor with The emperor. It is Magnus's view but the wolves not being terran or natural makes sense because they are far more intelligent. After all the wolves had "souls of a sort" from what Ahriman saw them in the warp. The canis helix may only be able to make a space wolf from fenrisian people bc of the gene's put into them to survive the death world. It maybe why the 2nd founding Wolf Brothers didn't work out for long. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ration Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Ok that makes sense but i must ask i thougt Wulfen where left out on Fenris when they turn and not initiated in to the chapter? or does the space wolves run a risk of becoming Wulfen all their lives? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanyPrawny Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 They run the risk their entire lives. Constantly warring with the beast inside, war within, war without... new initiates unfortunately haven't learned enough to be useful to the chapter so are generally discarded though i still imagine they have a place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Oh Noah Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 The "weak" when on the Test of Morkai will fail and turn to wulfen but it can affect them in times of stress even after the test. It's what helps make them close combat beasts. It doesn't really say other then the wulfen are left to wander Asaheim. But the wolfs are not the wulfen since they were there When Russ first landed on Fenris. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ration Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 oh damn that was a new one. Is the geneseed so unstable that they become beast by getting freinzied? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanyPrawny Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Only if they arn't strong enough to control it. Then again if they're just gonna go berserk what good are they for protecting innocents and such. Takes a mighty warrior to know when to let the beast out of its cage but it takes a stronger one to be able to put it back again afterwards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ration Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Ok then i know, allways thought that wulfen only existed as a initiate and not after. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195891-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2333724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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