No wolves on Fenris?

[Gree]

i hated 1k sons

 

not because of the wolves bits but the custodes

 

ive always been a fan of them and believed they were even more hardcore than marines because of the likes of collective visions and then they got butchered by the thousand sons like imperial guard

 

Actually In Blood Games one of the Custodes says that they are really not that tougher than Astartes.

[Simo429]

i hated 1k sons

 

not because of the wolves bits but the custodes

 

ive always been a fan of them and believed they were even more hardcore than marines because of the likes of collective visions and then they got butchered by the thousand sons like imperial guard

 

Actually In Blood Games one of the Custodes says that they are really not that tougher than Astartes.

i noticed that but at the same time he didnt back down from a primarch and i couldnt see an astartes doing that

 

its in collective visions where i tihnk it says custodes are to astartes what the Emperor is to the primarchs it also mentions that the Emperor and 1000 custodes drop into an ork stronghold and kill 100,000 of them in under an hour with teh loss of 3 astartes (might be wrong on teh numbers but it is an impressive amount)

[Gree]

i noticed that but at the same time he didnt back down from a primarch and i couldnt see an astartes doing that

 

Varren did not back down from Angron, what did you think Garro and Tarvitz did?

[Simo429]

i noticed that but at the same time he didnt back down from a primarch and i couldnt see an astartes doing that

 

Varren did not back down from Angron, what did you think Garro and Tarvitz did?

well garro just got his ass kicked by dorn in the flash of the eye

 

tarvitz never squared up to a primarch did he?

 

and im not sure ive heard the story of varren

 

the custodes pretty much said if you fancy a go lets throw down

[hmk17]

My first reading of the passage had me going off in another direction, given that the Tutelaries could be seen by the wolves AND were afraid of them. (Daemons aren't afraid of very many things after all...)

 

I'm more inclined to rest on the theory about the mass creation of species by human settlers, that Bloodhowl put forth. We know what adverse reactions of the Canis Helix can do to Astartes, what would they do to animals like bears, elk, mammoths, etc.? It reasonably explains the diverse wolf population of Fenris, the Helix was added to all produced wildlife as a measure of preserving them against the environment better. Mutation took place in some and over several thousand years those developed into its own species apart from its template species.

 

Magnus is being pretty matter-of-fact in the conversation. He seems just to answer the question bluntly using big words.

 

Though he might be right in, "I do no think there are any species native to Fenris."

[Gree]

well garro just got his ass kicked by dorn in the flash of the eye

 

And? He still stood up to him.

 

tarvitz never squared up to a primarch did he?

 

He refused to go with Slaanesh.

 

and im not sure ive heard the story of varren

 

It's in Galaxy in Flames, Angron jumps out of a Stormbird and Varren charges screaming at him.

 

the custodes pretty much said if you fancy a go lets throw down

 

Dorn's reaction was that of amusement, the subtext was that the Custodes were going to be slaughtered if they faced him.

[Grimtooth]

The Space Wolves were created using the geneseed of Leman Russ AFTER he was taken away by the forces of Chaos.

 

Now when Russ was raised on Fenris and eventually became king, his title was "The Wolf King". Now why that distinction? I would guess that since the Canis Helix was already within Russ, his appearance to the population would be very much wolf-like. Based on this the Legion that was created by Russ would have already had the Canis Helix in them as well and would be wolf-like in appearance as well.

[Vash113]

I read A Thousand Sons and found it ranks only just so far above Goto or Swallow/Blood Angels abominations.

 

"There are no wolves on Fenris" I think is a pithy line that some other author now has to justify, rather than a coherent concept.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

As for Simo492, it's not just the Custodes getting their buts kicked, all the fight scenes were very one sided in general. Yea at times the Wolves were on the rampage and at others the Thousand Sons were incinerating everything in their path but there was no balance what so ever. It was just a rather lame back and forth with Sisters of Silence and Custodes caught in the middle. So yea the Custodes went down hard and rather ignominously but they weren't the only ones.

[Simo429]

I read A Thousand Sons and found it ranks only just so far above Goto or Swallow/Blood Angels abominations.

 

"There are no wolves on Fenris" I think is a pithy line that some other author now has to justify, rather than a coherent concept.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

As for Simo492, it's not just the Custodes getting their buts kicked, all the fight scenes were very one sided in general. Yea at times the Wolves were on the rampage and at others the Thousand Sons were incinerating everything in their path but there was no balance what so ever. It was just a rather lame back and forth with Sisters of Silence and Custodes caught in the middle. So yea the Custodes went down hard and rather ignominously but they weren't the only ones.

i agree with that

 

i found it unrealistic that psykers could stop planatary bombadment

[Gree]

As for Simo492, it's not just the Custodes getting their buts kicked, all the fight scenes were very one sided in general. Yea at times the Wolves were on the rampage and at others the Thousand Sons were incinerating everything in their path but there was no balance what so ever. It was just a rather lame back and forth with Sisters of Silence and Custodes caught in the middle. So yea the Custodes went down hard and rather ignominously but they weren't the only ones.

 

Putting aside the fact that the Thousand Sons suffered 90% casulaties, it's susposed to be from the Sons POV. That's the whole point of what McNeill and Abnett worked together on. The Prospero Burns version should feature the same thing, but with a Space Wolf slant.

 

i agree with that

 

i found it unrealistic that psykers could stop planatary bombadment

 

We have Alpha Plus psykers destroy Titans with a flick of their wrist. Now with the entire Raptora cult powered by Tzeentch holding off a brief orbital bombardment is unbelievable?

[Vash113]

Putting aside the fact that the Thousand Sons suffered 90% casulaties, it's susposed to be from the Sons POV. That's the whole point of what McNeill and Abnett worked together on. The Prospero Burns version should feature the same thing, but with a Space Wolf slant.

 

That's not what I'm talking about, at all. What I'm talking about is that the fight scenes were pretty much entirely one sided. At one moment the Thousand Sons are annihilating Space Wolves by the hundreds, the next they're getting torn to shreds, then they're back to obliterating the Wolves, then Russ shows up and starts shredding them, then the Wolves are being melted by acid water and so on and so forth. There was absolutely no balance to the fight scenes. In an attempt to depict a war of epic proportions McNiell fell back on some unbelievably one sided story telling and the fights turned into these grandious descriptions of explosions first hurting one side, then another, then both. There was none of the desperate, gritty, dirty and horrendous combat that the event, the battle, the catastrophe should have invoked.

 

It had nothing to do with the events coming from the Thousand Sons perspective, if those scenes had been in Prospero Burns I'd be saying the same things. It doesn't matter whose perspective the scenes are from, they were still not very well written. Fortunately I've rarely gotten that sense from Abnett's fight scenes, even if I think Gaunt's Ghosts is a series that should have ended half a dozen books ago.

[Gree]

That's not what I'm talking about, at all. What I'm talking about is that the fight scenes were pretty much entirely one sided. At one moment the Thousand Sons are annihilating Space Wolves by the hundreds, the next they're getting torn to shreds, then they're back to obliterating the Wolves, then Russ shows up and starts shredding them, then the Wolves are being melted by acid water and so on and so forth. There was absolutely no balance to the fight scenes. In an attempt to depict a war of epic proportions McNiell fell back on some unbelievably one sided story telling and the fights turned into these grandious descriptions of explosions first hurting one side, then another, then both. There was none of the desperate, gritty, dirty and horrendous combat that the event, the battle, the catastrophe should have invoked.

 

I'm sorry, you must have read a different book than me, because I never got that impression. It's a huge battle between two Legions, obviously massive casulties are going to happen to both sides. This is not a battle report, there is no fairness in war. Both sides here will exploit whatever advantage they can get.

 

It had nothing to do with the events coming from the Thousand Sons perspective,

 

I believe it does, considering the scenes were coming from the Captains mostly, who were all very powerful psykers being enhanced by their Tutelaries. Naturally scenes from them would have been in their favor. But even then we have Phosis T'kar almost killed by a Fenrisian Wolf and having a fairly close fight with a Sister.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

The vital clue as to the true nature of the wolves was how the tutelaries reacted to the presence of the wolves.

 

There are no wolves on Fenris, but there is something that resembles a wolf that scares the heck out of the TS's personal 'pet' demons enough for them to flee whenever a Fenris wolf appears on the scene.

 

Actually the book probably underestimates their anti-demon function if anything

[Tybrus]

The vital clue as to the true nature of the wolves was how the tutelaries reacted to the presence of the wolves.

 

There are no wolves on Fenris, but there is something that resembles a wolf that scares the heck out of the TS's personal 'pet' demons enough for them to flee whenever a Fenris wolf appears on the scene.

 

Actually the book probably underestimates their anti-demon function if anything

 

Your not trying to say that Fen wolvese are really Khorn Doggies now are you? Cause a big slap to the back of the head is INCOMING! if you are!

[Demonslayer]

The Space Wolves were created using the geneseed of Leman Russ AFTER he was taken away by the forces of Chaos.

 

Now when Russ was raised on Fenris and eventually became king, his title was "The Wolf King". Now why that distinction? I would guess that since the Canis Helix was already within Russ, his appearance to the population would be very much wolf-like. Based on this the Legion that was created by Russ would have already had the Canis Helix in them as well and would be wolf-like in appearance as well.

 

I always thought Russ was called that because he was raised by wolfs and when the Fenrisons kill his pack they took him in.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

The vital clue as to the true nature of the wolves was how the tutelaries reacted to the presence of the wolves.

 

There are no wolves on Fenris, but there is something that resembles a wolf that scares the heck out of the TS's personal 'pet' demons enough for them to flee whenever a Fenris wolf appears on the scene.

 

Actually the book probably underestimates their anti-demon function if anything

 

Your not trying to say that Fen wolvese are really Khorn Doggies now are you? Cause a big slap to the back of the head is INCOMING! if you are!

 

 

No I'm not, I think that GW are hinting at something far more ancient and scary, but I don't expect an explanation from them. The best horror films are always those that leave the imagination room to enhance the fear.

 

As to a slap - bring it on little yellow-armoured brother :unsure:

[Simo429]

The vital clue as to the true nature of the wolves was how the tutelaries reacted to the presence of the wolves.

 

There are no wolves on Fenris, but there is something that resembles a wolf that scares the heck out of the TS's personal 'pet' demons enough for them to flee whenever a Fenris wolf appears on the scene.

 

Actually the book probably underestimates their anti-demon function if anything

 

Your not trying to say that Fen wolvese are really Khorn Doggies now are you? Cause a big slap to the back of the head is INCOMING! if you are!

 

 

No I'm not, I think that GW are hinting at something far more ancient and scary, but I don't expect an explanation from them. The best horror films are always those that leave the imagination room to enhance the fear.

 

As to a slap - bring it on little yellow-armoured brother :)

this is certainly a lot closer to how i read this piece than they are humans devolved into wolves

 

something alien that resembled wolves so the original settlers called them wolves

[SeanyPrawny]

Thats how I also read it. The fact that one is actually called an alien beast or summet along those lines helped with that train of thought :)

[SamaNagol]

The line 'could see a type of alien intelligence' is stuck in my mind for some reason when they describe looking the Fenrisian wolf in the eye when he goes to meet the Space Wolf Rune Priest. I may be incorrect with the wording, but it was definitely implied they had a form of sentience which far outstripped simple beasts

[Captain Tezdal]

I thought Thousand Sons was a great book, made me love Thousand Sons AND Space Wolves that much more, they both came off pretty epic, the only bad part was Magnus, man for a primarch he sure was a twit.

[Darkseer]

Bit of a late comer to this topic, but I read that the Canis Helix had caused some of the settlers to devolve into wolf-like creatures over time. This would be consistent with the Mark of the Wulfen as well.

 

Page 10 of the Codex talks about failed aspirants becoming Wulfen and 'falling from grace', yet these Wulfen never seem to be encountered in the wilds when the Wolf Lord and his buddies go hunting. Makes me wonder if the failed aspirants actually devolve all the way into wolves over time?

 

It also makes me wonder if Canis Wolfborn (Page 54) really is 'wolf-born' from Fenrisian Wolves as part of a genetic fluke. After all, how else could a normal human fight Harald Deathwolf and not get splattered?

 

I'm going with the whole Fenrisian Wolves are devolved humans under the influence of the canis helix. Or perhaps more accurately, failed Space Wolves aspirants.

[Simo429]

Bit of a late comer to this topic, but I read that the Canis Helix had caused some of the settlers to devolve into wolf-like creatures over time. This would be consistent with the Mark of the Wulfen as well.

 

Page 10 of the Codex talks about failed aspirants becoming Wulfen and 'falling from grace', yet these Wulfen never seem to be encountered in the wilds when the Wolf Lord and his buddies go hunting. Makes me wonder if the failed aspirants actually devolve all the way into wolves over time?

 

It also makes me wonder if Canis Wolfborn (Page 54) really is 'wolf-born' from Fenrisian Wolves as part of a genetic fluke. After all, how else could a normal human fight Harald Deathwolf and not get splattered?

 

I'm going with the whole Fenrisian Wolves are devolved humans under the influence of the canis helix. Or perhaps more accurately, failed Space Wolves aspirants.

then how come there were already wolves there before russ arrived to raise him?

 

i see no evidence for this at all

[Marshal Varas Mortez]

It was not a slur on The sons of Russ, more he showed his amusement at what everyone thought to be wolves.

 

I think what is implied is that there were wolves, or wolves were brought and given the canis helix which altered their genetic structure. Not that humans went to wulfen then into the wolves, that sounds daft imo.

[clanfield]

@simo429 the humans where the original colonists ,russ arived much latter ergo the wolves were already there

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

It also makes me wonder if Canis Wolfborn (Page 54) really is 'wolf-born' from Fenrisian Wolves as part of a genetic fluke. After all, how else could a normal human fight Harald Deathwolf and not get splattered?

 

because the fluff for him is retarded?

that seems to be the best answer.

 

WLK