need help

[warhawk]

Hello my fellow wolf brothers. I am new to this forum but i have been playing for years. I have been reading this forum for awhile now and i have to say i am blown away by the fact how everyone is willing to help one another.

But lets get to the point. There is a salamander list that has been terriozing the local tournie's for about a year now. The guy plays it is a warhammer vet and he built the list to win thats it. We have a tournie coming up in about three weeks and i count on playing him(me and him always compete for 1st place)

 

2000pts

 

Salamander list

vulkin

3 tac squads in rhinos with meltas and flamers

1 tac squad with a plasma cannon in back with no rhino

2x5 TH & SS termies mounted in land raider redeemers

2 vindicators

1 attack bike mutli-melta

 

My wolves list

 

Rune Priest+master of runes(he goes with LF)

5 wolf guards each ith Wolf claw and combi-melta mounted in razor back with ass cannon

5 scout with melta gun and 2 power weapons

3X10 grey hunters Melta gun, Plasma gun, Plasma pistol, power weapon, and banner. Mounted in rhino

5 Thunder wolve calv. each with storm shields.

6 long fangs 5 lasscannons

1 pred with side lass. and autocannon

 

We play alot of objective based games at the local tournies. But yes my brothers i am asking you for your help on how to take down this list.

 

He plays his list pretty straight foward. Everything is in a bunched up formation then turn one everything drives straight at your army. Vinds only moving six inch so they can fire there cannon. Raiders going full tilt at you. Rhinos moving behind the raiders.

Any insight, tips, ideas, and crazy ideas would be apperciated

 

For the wolf time

[TiguriusX]

5xTWC + 5xSS is very expensive and why no TH? You are missing out on one of the best combos in our codex. A S10 TH hidden in a unit of T5...

 

If you are willing to retool your list you can whack his elite force without too much trouble

 

495-Logan and 6xLF with 5xLC

Split fire combined with Logan's tank hunter and you have 5xS10 weapons with 48" to stop his armor cold

Can split 3/2 and odds are favorable that you get a roll on the damage table (4, 5 or 6 gives 50% glance or better on AV14).

 

Yes this is a major investment for AV but it is one of the best AV any Space Marine army can field. It should more than earn its points back against the Salamanders. Once the LR are down the LC can start popping TDAs at range.

 

You already have the LFs and LC in your current army list.

 

You can also replace one of your GH squads with another WG squad using WCs (WG count as troops now thanks to Logan)

 

390-10xWG + 10xTDA + 10xSB/PW + 2xCML (put one of the CML with Logan and LF for 2 more S9 shots at 48" using tank hunters. This makes a split fire of 3xS10 at target A and 2xS10 + 2xS9 at target B )

 

This can be a rear objective holder that spits out ranged fire (similar to a 10xGH + 2xPlasma unit). They can also counter assault the hell out of anything. Add a CF or 2 and they fear nothing. When Logan is done hanging out with Long Fangs he links up with the WG and they tear through pretty much anything in range. Logan's preferred enemy, 11 power weapons and sheer number of attacks will mow through TH/SS terminators before they have a chance to attack

 

Hell...with this unit screening the LF you could ignore his LR and blast his vindicators first. Let him assault you with his TH/SS if he dares

 

I know both of those suggestions are massive point sinks (almost half your army) but you can easily retool your list to incorporate the concepts in smaller amounts

[alphalupine]

Just a couple of things as I scan your list. It is a well known precedent and accepted rule that your special weapons need to compliment each other. So if your squad is a plasma squad then your two special weapons need to be both plasma guns and vice versa if it's a melta squad then both specials need to be melta. This will help define roles and make them more effective in those roles!

 

Also what powers are you giving your Rune Priest? I would suggest Living Lighting and murderous hurricane. Use the LL to pop transports and MH to slow down those fast units you need to keep at bay.

 

Also I agree with TiguriusX, the TWC is way too expensive and is lacking the pf or th to boot! I would drop to one or two SS to take those lascannon shots should they head your way and either a th or pf and maybe one with meltbombs.

 

I'm not convinced that your razorback is armed correctly for your list...I would suggest the lascannon/TL-Plasma would be your optimum build for popping tanks and heavy armor infantry.

 

Well that was more than a couple of things but you know how that goes.

[Uncooked]

I have to agree with alphalupine about your grey hunter squad special weapons, the most focused you are towards one type of weapon, the easier it is to know what their specific role is and also with the spells for your rune priest, MH and Living lighting have been me choices because they give you immediate effects in game.

 

Get a unit of 10 grey hunters x2 meltaguns in a drop pod (190points) and drop it next to one of the land raiders on the first turn, avg is that one of those melta guns will pen, just hope you immobilize it or better! :P and who cares if they die, a LRR is 240basic, iven if you make it immobile, his squads going to have to get out to walk, slowing him down.

 

best thing i would say about the vindis is to fight fire with fire, get a couple of vindicators yourself, there not so bad for tank killing :S, sometimes just just fail face first but he has the same thing as you. Just remember to play conservative with them and not rush them headlong, vindicators have the worse side armour in history for a tank! your TWC are really expensive, take them out for a vindi ;) and give your pred a TL lascannon turret.

 

Your scouts wont do much against that sort of mobile army, i find that they don't arrive when you need them to, could swap that unit with a Dreadnought with TL Lascannon, Missile launcher for killing the rhinos - anything to give you time in order to get your units in the right place is always a help.

 

Take some wolf guard terminators with 3xfrost blades and a 2xchainfists (225points) for the tanks and to get them involved more, the tanks are coming to you so your going to have a lot of time to kill them when your done :)

 

5 Lascannons in your LF pack makes me warm and fuzzy inside, good work!

[warhawk]

thank you all for your insight. the one reason i have all the TWC carrying SS is because i don't think they need anything else do how many attacks they have. and the scouts well i through them in there because i had the points. And you guys are right i should have the grey hunter specials weapons all the same to make them more effecient. i will reply more tommorrow. i didn't want to leave you guys hanging. Thank you all for your help.

 

May russ bless you with good rolls