[ARTWORK] Berzerker Update 31/3/10 Coloured!

[Yogi]

Amended version is 5 posts or so..

 

 

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a445/mabbon/Bezerker_KilianJ.jpg

 

Click

 

BnC has always had some great art.. so I thought Id post this here.

 

So this is my first proper sojourn into the techno wizardry of Photoshop (CS3). I'm hoping to colour it next. Used a tablet.

 

If you look at the chaos rising box art you can see that I copied by eye the pose of the torso and used the helmet in his hand to serve as his head.

 

Also I now know why you rarely see art of space marines running.. Its hard to do! I played around with the legs longer then the rest of the picture took to draw.

 

Anyways say what you feel, don't sugarcoat, I'm not a delicate donut.

 

By the way any tips to over-colouring (what I plan to do) Or if you wanna colour it to demonstrate what you mean feel free.

 

Cheers.

[Dan The Deamon]

You know it actually looks really good. It's very clean and the detail is great. My only criticism would be the size, or perspective of some things.

 

The power pack looks on the small side. You may have been going for a larger astartes and a smaller pack, but this looks like it's actually further away than he is. I think enlarging the exhaust vents a little bit might help.

 

The running leg/greave i think needs a couple of inches on the outside trim. It looks like he has very thin armor or is bending his knee at an awkward angle. Does his rear leg have a foot?

 

Once again, I'm only being picky because you asked :) i could never draw like this.

[Okidus]

google texture overlay and throw one of those on there.

change layer blend to multiply and reduce opacity to 50% or so

you could also use the find edges filter and reduce that as well

try cut out to give some shading

[Yogi]

Thanks so much Dan.

 

Well I could never convert like you so we're even eh..

 

I think I will take all of your observations on board. When you mentioned them I'm like bah.. I missed that. So I think tomorrow when I have had a break from this bugger.. I will implement them.

 

Thanks so much Dan.

 

Okidus Your suggestions shall be researched.. sounds promising. Thanx

[Yogi]

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a445/mabbon/Bezerkermasterresized-1.jpg

Amended version..

[Dan The Deamon]

How long have you been drawing like this?('cause it kicks butt!) Would you mind if I took your picture into paint and circled what i can see? Or do you want me to shut my trap and let you draw :)

[Yogi]

Please circle whatever you need to.. Im happy to see what you think..

 

Also I did drawing classes when I was like 8.. As a teenager/young adult completely abandoned art.. and am now reviving it..

[Dan The Deamon]

Okay I numbered the things that stood out to me.

1,2 : essentially this is personal preference, the zerk bunny ears just didn't look finished at the top. They can be modeled or designed in any way, and they are certainly representative of Khorne and World Eaters, they just look kind of small.

3: His torso/body armor looks awesome until you get to this spot. The straight line under his shoulder pad to his hip detracts from his chest looking big and muscular. I can think of two ways to fix this 1; give that little line under his arm a little more pronounced curve to give his chest some bulk. 2; scale back his abdominal/thorax area under his chest armor.

4: His cod piece looks to be sneaking it's way across his hips. It's giving the illusion that his legs are being viewed from different angles, or he may be wearing it wrong. Maybe that's why he's so angry? The hips look fine it's just the cod armor.

5: i can't place my finger on it but the bolt pistol and the vambrace armor seem to be drawn from different perspectives. I think if the pistol reciever (rear end part of the weapon) was drawn a little bigger it would take care of this.

Things I love.

The helmet and the snout.

THe shoulderpads rock. The curviture is spot on and they are in motion!

The axe, very detailed.

His chest piece(besides #2), trim, and khorne symbol are kick butt.

I've always thought about getting back into artwork myself. I think it's better off i left it alone though.

Hope this stuff helps.

Dan

[Yogi]

Wow now that is a crit! Many thanx.

 

You know what, Im gonna fix all of that either today or tomorrow.

 

 

And I'll tell you something Dan you should definitely have ago at art again.. If your used to traditional pencils and whatnot Shop feels like cheating.. you can fix anything.. rotate it whatever..

 

Nab yourself a Graphics tablet.. I got a Wacom Intuos 3 for $329 Australian.. I bought it on a whim.. And look what's happened.

 

Also This shop business feels like forbidden secret knowledge till you find a good forum.. Heres the one I found.. http://conceptart.org/forums/ Have a lurk round and think about it.. Because I bet you could do some amazing stuff.

[wiplash]

our right (his left) hand thigh is thinner than the other, and it should be the same size or bigger

 

other than that looks perfect

[Yogi]

Here it is final version.. wanna colour it now..

 

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a445/mabbon/Berserker01R.jpg

[Termies R Us]

Much better.

[Midas]

dang

:)

[Dan The Deamon]

Color it!

[Yogi]

Thanx guys.. Mucking about with colourin' it now.

[DV8]

Before I do begin, I am taking you at your request in your OP, and I'm going to be as honest as I can in hopes that you will continue to improve in your art.

 

Every drawing, no matter how pretty, falls apart if the core structure does not make sense. In this particular instance, anatomy, flow of movement, the balance of the figure, and just how it's positioned. Nothing makes sense, and the problem I think is that you just aren't too familiar with how the body moves.

 

When you begin planning out a piece of artwork, try to imagine the "setting". If you aren't drawing boring, immobile still life (like a bowl of fruit, or a mountain of skulls), you are capturing movement; rather, a shot in time during a movement or scene of action. Which means there must be a before and an after. Try and imagine what that before and after is. Picture the pose you want (even better if you try and act it out), and figure out what motions or movements the character might have to take to get there. What movements or follow-through movements must the character take afterwards? Nothing ruins a good character drawing like a poor pose.

 

You made a mistake trying to copy the Chaos Rising art, and appending the "poorly" copied torso to a set of running legs. It just won't work, because NOBODY can run like that. Not properly, and they'll quickly lose balance. If you actually look at the Chaos Rising box art, you can see that his legs are wide, but stable. He has his left leg positioned a little forward, and stepped on top of a rock/rubble pile, but he is immobile. I picture him as having walked up into that position, and now he's striking a menacing "I'm the king of this world" pose. You took that and made him a prancing fairy by putting it on a pair of legs that look like they were referenced from the actual Khorne Berserker models (and for the record, you should never, ever, EVER reference GW models for anatomy...there is none there).

 

Try and look at movies or pictures or videos of soldiers (especially soldiers in armor) running or charging. You could even take a broom stick and a watergun (I used a replica Lightsabre and a Nerf Gun in my photo samples below) and try to see how you would walk, run and fight with those weapons. What feels natural? What doesn't?

 

I tried my hand at "acting out" your pose...

 

http://www.spacewithinspace.net/images/wips/awkward!.jpg

 

I could barely hold my balance, nevermind figure out how I was supposed to run forward like this.

 

You tried copying the torso of the Chaos Rising box. This is the pose that is depicted on the box, and that your torso SHOULD be attached to:

 

http://www.spacewithinspace.net/images/wips/awesome!.jpg

 

The legs are completely different, but notice the changes to the arms, the stance of the torso, how it curves forward so that I'm not just menacing (grimacing?), but bellowing. Shoulders thrown back, chest out, you can see and feel the motion.

 

Note too how I'm holding the weapons. Try it yourself and you'll find it is more natural this way (especially the pistol...nobody turns the pistol upside down because that requires you to rotate the wrist and put the hand in an unnatural position (the hand will more naturally have palms facing outwards than backwards).

 

Perspective is another key issue, and you are struggling with it in quite a few key places, although you have done some top notch perspective in others. Which indicates to me it may be hit and miss for you.

 

The perspective on the backpack is damn near perfect, and I am very impressed. Likewise, the axe is near flawless (the only downside here is that the axe is sloping away, held backwards, when it should slope towards, held forwards, but that was already discussed in the posing above).

 

The helmet is pretty good. Some MINOR tweaks, but they're barely noticeable (I'd wager only artists could really say...oh that line or this line is off). My issue with the helmet is proportions, but I'll get to that in a bit.

 

The perspective on the chestplate is correct, HOWEVER it is also flat. It lacks proper depth to illustrate just how monstrously buff Space Marines are. The chestplate should curve out very much more, particularily in the front (you'll see in the example I have below).

 

The belt, hips, and crotch (plate) are all wrong. Try running with your hips and crotch pointing straight ahead. You can't do it, because it's physically impossible. The moment you put one leg forward, and one leg back, your hips and crotch will begin to rotate and face at an angle (about 20-30 degrees, depending on the "strength" or "length" of your stride, like a walk or a sprint), and this will change back and forth as the legs switch. The best example of this is to just wear a pair of paints and walk. look at the zipper, the front pockets, or the belt buckle (assuming you have it centered). Notice that they angle left or right as you move? Same concept here. For your set of incorrectly positioned running legs, your hips/crotch should face left, not right.

 

For a pair of running legs, it's not a bad attempt, but it doesn't really scream to me "running". It looks like he's more leaping from one spot to the next rather than striding/charging. Try looking at videos or pictures of runners, of various speeds, or try and video tape a friend walking and running, from the side, from a 3/4 angle, and from the front. Take a look at the legs and how they move, the angles they take, where they bend. It's too much to put down here, because a lot of the nuances you cannot really begin to understand without observing it first hand (I had an entire year of life drawing in college for this).

 

A lot of proper positioning is anatomy, and a big part of that is the skeleton and the musculature. Learn (even the basics) of how the skeleton is structured, and how muscles lay on top of it, and you will have a MUCH stronger grasp when drawing of how the body should move, and how it should look in a particular position.

 

Lastly, detail. I cannot begin to enumerate just how important it is to include detail. Detail gives scale, and credence. Proper detail, scaled appropriately, applied judiciously and cohesively, can make a drawing look top notch and professional. Simple detail, or lack there of, can make a drawing look like a child's doodle (and I say this objectively, and not insultingly).

 

Take a look at your drawing. All the details are in their place, and they're fine. But not really. They are each in their own little worlds, the trim sticking to the edge, the net tiny little Khorne icon on his chest like a rub-on Henna Tattoo. And there's a LOT of open space left (although granted open space can be minimized in coloring with subtler details, or with highlights and shading). But too much open space is no good.

 

Not the best picture but I am sans scanner and can only take a photograph:

 

http://www.spacewithinspace.net/images/wips/berserkerwip.JPG

 

I've taken your drawing and sketched over it, making tweaks and modifications here and there. Starting with the helmet. I've bulked up the rabbit ears, and more importantly added depth to the trim. This kind of subtle but real detail adds weight to your drawing, and makes it feel more tangible...more real. I've pointed the brow of the helmet and made the eyes much more menacing to give him a darker, angrier expression. Not only that, but I've filled his vox-grill. Not just with a vent, but teeth. Badass, OMNOMNOM teeth. He's gone from an empty-mouth "wah-wah" boy to a "BRING IT ON!" berserker. Some artistic perspective on the tubing on each side makes the helmet pop so much more, and adds a LOT of character to the...character. In models, the face will hold the most attention and deserves the most of yours. A drawing is no different. A face should be where you spend a lot of your time.

 

Next is the chestplate. I've taken the trim to the next level by incorporating the Khorne icon into it, and broken it out of the chestplate by having the teeth on the bottom extend over the "boundaries". I added a neck "plate" with the three little holes, and hinted at some sort of neck supporting the head. These are tiny details, but critical details that all lend to making your drawing feel more "real" to the viewer. You can't just fudge things or hope to hide everything in shadow.

 

A great example is Mike Mignola's drawings (illustrator of Hellboy). His drawings may look simple and cartoony. But his sketches are not. He took the time to make sure his characters were anatomically correct and positioned properly. He drew in every detail down to the last rivet, and then inked over it all to hide what he wanted.

 

Is it more work? Absolutely. Is the result worth it? Most definitely.

 

And as a last minute addition, I thought it'd be kind of cool to hint at the "World Eater" aspect by filling in some of that blank space with..well..a world. The dags or triangle "spikes" of the trim act as teeth to frame the world as if his chestplate is "eating" it.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

DV8

[dynamicspartan]

Yogi, the cod piece in the last update still does look a little... awkward, but it looks really good. Better than any of my space marine drawings for sure. And DV8, I really like what your doing with it so far.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Can only see 2 pics in this since I'm at work, but DV8 your stuff looks awesome.....you have any other examples of sketchwork/artwork for 40k around here?

[Yogi]

Wow DV8.

 

Ok I read your post a fair few times just to absorb it all.

 

First I just have to say thanks for taking the time to post/draw/take photos (of) that. I have learnt alot.

 

With the posing, I totally get what your saying. In fact on another forum someone mentioned that they couldn't help think that he was skipping --"Blood for the Blood God! Tra la la la la la." I thought it was because of the arms.. But the hips are also a key part of it (with them facing forward rather then being tilted). Also you have explained the the subtle wrongness I felt with the cod piece's relation to the leg, but couldn't fix or put my finger on.

 

So I see now the problems with the pose is that I didn't have any kind of plan and referenced the wrong things. I do remember when I had finished drawing the torso I thought "You can't draw him running because he's not even leaning forward." (which is why the axe is leaning back as it had already been drawn) But the heart won out and I drew him that way anyway.

 

It is also becoming clear to me that you really can't cheat after all. For example the Khorne Icon on his chest is that small because I originally drew the chest a a third smaller (in the sense of length top to bottom).. It kinda reminded me of a boob tube. And I drew the icon during that version.. Then I fixed the chest size and simply repositioned the icon and played with the edges of it. I see you noticed the icon is a bit of a shambles as it was drawn for a smaller chest. So I should of just taken my lumps and redrawn, but alas lazyness.

 

The terrible common occurrence of the artist pointlessly defending his work and making excuses will occur here.. I just have to say that the grill is empty because I intended to 'grill it up' so to speak when I coloured it. Also the lack of depth in the bunny ears and on most of the trimmings is because the thickness of the paint tool I was using was too thick to allow me to draw that detail without simply making the lines thicker (and I didn't wanna change it), and once again I intended to rectify it upon colouring.. Thats enough whinging back to learning from your post.

 

Now your drawing, is well amazing. And further illustrates another criticism I got, which was that my Zerker was too fat. His waist was too big. When I read that I thought it was crazy, I couldn't see what he was talking about and said as much. But, I see in yours the waist is indeed smaller. And I guess more anatomically correct. Not to mention he looks like he is running and he looks pissed off (angry).

 

The details.. Yeah your details really bring to life the Zerker. And they are pretty inventive and cool. They also don't, as I have seen often in 40k art, make the character too busy. I would say I am pretty minimalist, but I think you have struck a balance that enhances the picture. I will try to take on-board this aspect as well.

 

Also the method you mention that Mignola employs really appeals. But is at odds with 99% of the tutorials I have seen.. So its nice to hear that I wouldn't just be wasting my time..

 

Finally I am left wondering what I should do.. Because to institute you very constructive criticism IMO I would have to start from scratch. And this feels like rolling snake eyes ^_^. Plus I am already colouring him and wanna finish what I started. At the same time it would be an epic tragedy to not take on board what you have taught me and see the results.. I think what I will do is finish what is essentially the Mark I version and then go about making the Mark II version. That way I can put all these concepts into place and really see the difference.

 

TLDR --Thanks

 

Thanks for the comment Dynamic-Spartan.

[DV8]

Wow DV8.

 

Ok I read your post a fair few times just to absorb it all.

 

First I just have to say thanks for taking the time to post/draw/take photos (of) that. I have learnt alot.

 

No problem at all. Nevermind art as a specific skillset, as a person you can never experience everything in the world. You can't make all the mistakes and hope to learn from all of them. Which is why we have teachers, mentors and peers to help make those mistakes for us, learn from them, and impart that knowledge to us (as we impart it to them). It's the only way we as a community grow.

 

I saw true effort, talent, and a lot of potential in your illustration, and felt it necessary to help you improve not necessarily this particular drawing, but your skill set in general.

 

Finally I am left wondering what I should do.. Because to institute you very constructive criticism IMO I would have to start from scratch. And this feels like rolling snake eyes :confused:. Plus I am already colouring him and wanna finish what I started. At the same time it would be an epic tragedy to not take on board what you have taught me and see the results.. I think what I will do is finish what is essentially the Mark I version and then go about making the Mark II version. That way I can put all these concepts into place and really see the difference.

 

Never think that the one piece you work on will be your last. Never try to make it perfect, and never spend an age trying to perfect it, redoing and redoing unnecessarily. There will always be other pieces, and you will always learn and improve from each one. Finish this drawing, take in and absorb what you have learned, and apply that to the next piece you do. Repeat this process until you are blind and infirm and can draw no more.

 

Besides, you should see my drawings from 5 or 6 years ago. YEEECH atrocious.

 

It is never the end destination that is the ultimate reward. It is not where we arrive at the end that brings us the greatest joy or satisfaction. It is in the journey.

 

It is also becoming clear to me that you really can't cheat after all. For example the Khorne Icon on his chest is that small because I originally drew the chest a a third smaller (in the sense of length top to bottom).. It kinda reminded me of a boob tube. And I drew the icon during that version.. Then I fixed the chest size and simply repositioned the icon and played with the edges of it. I see you noticed the icon is a bit of a shambles as it was drawn for a smaller chest. So I should of just taken my lumps and redrawn, but alas lazyness.

 

The bane of my existence, it really is. You have no idea how lazy/lethargic I am, but oh how productive I can be when properly inspired...

 

Also the method you mention that Mignola employs really appeals. But is at odds with 99% of the tutorials I have seen.. So its nice to hear that I wouldn't just be wasting my time..

 

It's only a waste of time if you think it is. And all the work put into it will always most definitely enhance the whole. Just because that effort isn't necessarily always visible in the end result doesn't mean it was unnecessary.

 

 

DV8

[S. Bloodhowl]

That looks absolutley " :confused: I'm coming to rip off you face and beat you to death with it! :P " awesome! :devil:

Can't wait to see it done.

 

Can i ask you, could you do a tutorial on how you draw space marines? I love to draw, especially 40k stuff, but I suck badly when it comes to marines, I can never get the proportions (or generally anything) right with them. ;)

[Yogi]

Once again DV8 I will take your wisdom on board.

 

I'm like 10% through the colouring.. because this is the first time I've used Pshop (or any program) to colour its taking a while.

[Yogi]

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a445/mabbon/BerzerkerColour.jpg

 

Big thanks to all those who commented, it really helped.

 

1st colouring using Shop..

 

Mostly just crazy experimentation for me the image had a layer for practically ever colour haha.

 

I wasn't going for the cartoony colouring.. that just happened.. Need to learn how to get the feel of realistic detail.

 

Anyways feel free to tell me anything wrong with it..

 

Cheers.

[A D-B]

I tried my hand at "acting out" your pose...

 

http://www.spacewithinspace.net/images/wips/awkward!.jpg

 

I could barely hold my balance, nevermind figure out how I was supposed to run forward like this.

 

DV8

 

Dude. You rock on toast.

 

Great advice post.

[Dan The Deamon]

He looks awesome Yogi. What do you plan on drawing next?