Questions concerning phaseout

[Kosmonaut]

I have a couple questions about Phase Out. I read through the 5th Ed rulebook and the Necron codex and FAQ and I couldn't find anything addressing this.

 

1) The entry for Necron Warriors says if they start in reserve they can only come in through a Monolith. What if I blow up the Monolith, or block the door? Are they destroyed immediately (and count toward phaseout), destroyed when the Necron player rolls for reinforcements and they're unable to deploy, or do I just get kill points for them at the end of the game?

 

2) Does phaseout count the Necron player's models in reserve, or do I just have to kill 80% of what's been deployed so far?

[SeattleDV8]

1) Nercon FAQ

"Q. Can units of Necron Warriors enter from

reserve as normal or must they enter via a

Monolith?

A. If the players hold any units of Necron

Warriors in reserve, he must specify if they are

going to enter the game through the Monolith or

simply walk in from their own table edge, as

normal. If units of Warriors are using this rule

and all available Monoliths are destroyed, the

Warriors count as destroyed and may therefore

trigger the Phase Out of the on-table portion of

the army."

 

 

2) It counts the models held in reserve.

[Kosmonaut]

Awesome, thanks.

[Agrab]

Side point, a friend (aidoneus) discovered that you can not take the Monolyth and still declare the warriors coming in that way, keeping you from ever phasing out

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

If you don't take a monolith you can't very well declare things are coming out of it.

 

A nice trick though is to block that door. They can't come out, so they are stuck in there. Ignore the monolith at that point and focus on his infantry to phase him out easy.

[Agrab]

If you don't take a monolith you can't very well declare things are coming out of it.

 

A nice trick though is to block that door. They can't come out, so they are stuck in there. Ignore the monolith at that point and focus on his infantry to phase him out easy.

 

blocking it will not phase out. They count for phaseout numbers until destroyed

 

the thing is, you simply declare which of two rules they use, not tht they are coming on via the monolith. Basically, you say they are using option B even if it is phisically not possible (stupid wording_

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

A) that flies in the face of every bit of common sense I possess. If you tried to pull that on me, I would refuse to play you. I'll have to read the rule myself to make sure the wording supports it, but thats simply stupid.

 

:) yes, it doesn't count as phase out. Yet having those infantry stuck in there means less things he can hit you with. And if you need to kill those things to phase out, wait until everything is gone from his out of monolith bit and then let the warriors inside the monolith come out so you can kill them easy too. Divide and Conquer.

 

Edit: read the rules that let warriors come out of the Monolith. Yes the rule does support letting the Necrons wait until a Monolith appears (even if no one ever will) that just means you will have to waste 25% equiv points for units that will accomplish nothing just to avoid phase out. That seems a bit silly to me, especially when you could just use those models to actually fight.

[bigmackey]

arnt mono's classed as skimmers ? aint played in a while so not too sure

[Commander Sasha]

This, and other rules discussions about reserves, outflanking etc. can be best summed up as: when you deploy your army, anything in reserves is now active, and effectively on the board, but just in a place where you can't see them. Thus, if your heavy weapon comes onto your table edge, he has moved at least 1 base-width to do so, so cannot fire.

[Agrab]

A) that flies in the face of every bit of common sense I possess. If you tried to pull that on me, I would refuse to play you. I'll have to read the rule myself to make sure the wording supports it, but thats simply stupid.

 

:D yes, it doesn't count as phase out. Yet having those infantry stuck in there means less things he can hit you with. And if you need to kill those things to phase out, wait until everything is gone from his out of monolith bit and then let the warriors inside the monolith come out so you can kill them easy too. Divide and Conquer.

 

Edit: read the rules that let warriors come out of the Monolith. Yes the rule does support letting the Necrons wait until a Monolith appears (even if no one ever will) that just means you will have to waste 25% equiv points for units that will accomplish nothing just to avoid phase out. That seems a bit silly to me, especially when you could just use those models to actually fight.

 

He had an all dystroyer army, worked quite well

only used the rule a few times, to play with it. I agree, quite cheap

[Legatus]

I would argue that not having a Monolith in the army at all is analogue to the last Monolith being destroyed, i.e. there now is no way the unit can enter the table and it counts as destroyed as per the FaQ. The unit is not waiting untill a Monolith is becoming available, as there will no Monolith be becoming available.

[The_Purple_Marauder]

Fortunately, you do not get an "Un-Phase-Out-Able" Necron army.

 

Yes, 'Phase Out' counts total models with the 'Necron' keyword/ability.

 

Agrab, your whack-job buddy is missing two parts of the rule.

#1 Necron Warriors in excess of the minimum(two troops).

#2 At the beginnig of the game where his Warriors are in 'Monolith Time Out', the

Monolith is a:Not on the field, and b:Not in reserves.

Thus it is 'destroyed', as it is not now on the field nor can it ever appear during the game.

Bye bye, Warriors.

 

Note: I play Necrons, have a Monolith, and have played them since 2nd Edition, so I am not simply voicing anti-Necron propaganda. I am not, after all, in Parliament/Congress.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Now that I think about that, that makes a ton of sense :jaw:

[Agrab]

Fortunately, you do not get an "Un-Phase-Out-Able" Necron army.

 

Yes, 'Phase Out' counts total models with the 'Necron' keyword/ability.

 

Agrab, your whack-job buddy is missing two parts of the rule.

#1 Necron Warriors in excess of the minimum(two troops).

#2 At the beginnig of the game where his Warriors are in 'Monolith Time Out', the

Monolith is a:Not on the field, and b:Not in reserves.

Thus it is 'destroyed', as it is not now on the field nor can it ever appear during the game.

Bye bye, Warriors.

 

Note: I play Necrons, have a Monolith, and have played them since 2nd Edition, so I am not simply voicing anti-Necron propaganda. I am not, after all, in Parliament/Congress.

 

except that destroyed is a clear rule in the rulebook, not non-existing

that is like arguing the fact that you do not have a tank in your list means i destroyed it

[Legatus]

The Monolith is not "destroyed". That is not a way to argue this issue. But the consequences for a Necron squad awaiting to be teleported onto the battlefield are the same. There will be no means for them to enter the game at all. If the army does contain Monoliths that are still waiting to deep strike themselves, then at least there still is the possibility that the reserve Warriors will be appearing at a later turn. But if all the Monoliths are destroyed (or, as in this case, the Army list does not contain any Monoliths at all), then there never will be an opportunity for them to appear. The unit is therefor taken out of the game. That is why the FaQ declares them as counting as destroyed. It is not as if the unit had been waiting inside the Monolith, after all. It is not actually taking harm and being destroyed. They are just out of the game, counting as destroyed, just like a unit that has fled from the table.

[Agrab]

The Monolith is not "destroyed". That is not a way to argue this issue. But the consequences for a Necron squad awaiting to be teleported onto the battlefield are the same. There will be no means for them to enter the game at all. If the army does contain Monoliths that are still waiting to deep strike themselves, then at least there still is the possibility that the reserve Warriors will be appearing at a later turn. But if all the Monoliths are destroyed (or, as in this case, the Army list does not contain any Monoliths at all), then there never will be an opportunity for them to appear. The unit is therefor taken out of the game. That is why the FaQ declares them as counting as destroyed. It is not as if the unit had been waiting inside the Monolith, after all. It is not actually taking harm and being destroyed. They are just out of the game, counting as destroyed, just like a unit that has fled from the table.

 

except that the FAQ doesn't touch one not existing in the first place. You are trying to apply a rule for a destroyed vehicle to a vehicle that does not exist

[Legatus]

I am trying to suggest that "not having a Monolith" amounts rather to the same as "all Monoliths that were available are destroyed" for a unit of Warriors waiting in reserve to be teleported on the table, instead of being compareable to "waiting for the Monoliths in reserve to become available".

 

Covered situation 1: all Monoliths still in reserve ==> The unit of Warriors held in reserve cannot come on to the board without a Monolith being present. The unit will wait untill a Monolith becomes available.

 

Covered situation 2: all Monoliths destroyed ==> There now is no possible way for the unit of Warriors to enter the game now or at any future turn. As per the FaQ they now count as destroyed.

 

New Situation 3: no Monolith in the army ==> There is no possible way for the unit of Warriors to enter the game now or at any future turn.

 

I hope the parallels are obvious.

 

It is not the process of a Monolith being destroyed that makes a unit of Warriors in Reserve count as destroyed. The army could include three Monoliths. The first Monolith being destroyed will not bother the Warriors held in reserve. Neither will the destruction of the second Monolith. Only if the last available Monolith is destroyed, and the Warriors held in reserve to be teleported on now have no means to enter the game, the units will count as destroyed. It is because they are now completely out of the game, whereas if there was a Monolith available, but itself held in reserve and not yet in the game, at least there is still the possibility that a unit of Warriors could be brought into the game at a later turn. If all Monoliths are destroyed, that possibility is gone. If there was no Monolith in the army at all, then that would amount to the same for the unit being held in Reserve to be teleported. There is no possibility for them to be brought into the game, so they are effectively out of the game. Just like when all Monoliths are destroyed.