Combat Tactics

[captain sox]

Hey folks!

 

I've been reading and studying my codex, trying to figure out the best tactics for my army.

 

I've never used the Combat Tacticts feature of the Space Marines, and to be honest, never really understood what it meant.

 

Failing a morale test would cause my Marines to fall back to my table edge, correct? Would I do this to allow other units to fire on the enemy's unit that was in close combat with my unit? Could my falling back unit shoot at that enemy unit too?

 

Please help clarify what the Combat Tactics can do for my army.

 

Thanks!

[Jackelope King]

Look at Combat Tactics. Then look at "And They Shall Know No Fear".

 

Yep, you auto-rally the next turn after you fail your Morale check.

 

Which means that Combat Tactics is great for getting you out of hairy situations. Someone shoot up your squad at close range before the charge and take you down to 75% strength? Combat Tactics and escape the "innevitable" charge. It's also great for escaping a close-combat that will either hurt your squad if you stay in it (Tactical Marines vs. nearly any close combat specialist) or getting away from a tar-pit unit that you're just not going to hurt. You still need to win the Initiative roll-off, but it's worth the risk of maybe losing a few "No Retreat!" wounds, especially against low-iniative enemy troops.

 

It's basically a cheap version of Hit & Run your army gets for free.

[Koremu]

I used it the other day to auto-fail a break check against some shooting, thereby pulling back out of assault range from a Seer Council and setting up for the Teleport arrival of a Shooty Terminator Squad with a Null Zone Librarian... very soon, no more Seer Council.

[templargdt]

It can be risky, because you won't rally if enemy are within 6 inches. I've chased and lost units off the board like this. But yes, it can be useful to get out of bad situations.

[Warprat]

Last week, when fighting Tyranids, the Swamplord made me make some kind of psychic leadership test for everyone of my squads within a certain distance. I used it to fall back one of my half strength Tac squads behind a ruin, where they could not be targeted by his shooty guants. It also cleared the way for my Terminators to retreat, if they failed thier leadership test.

[Koremu]

Last week, when fighting Tyranids, the Swamplord made me make some kind of psychic leadership test for everyone of my squads within a certain distance. I used it to fall back one of my half strength Tac squads behind a ruin, where they could not be targeted by his shooty guants. It also cleared the way for my Terminators to retreat, if they failed thier leadership test.

That's wrong. The psychic power that forces Ld tests on every unit in range is NOT a morale check, and you can only choose to auto-fail Morale checks, not all Ld tests.

[waaanial00]

Combat tactics are a really good asset to use. They are not amazing good on paper which is why some people completely overlook them. It took me the better part of a year to understand how and when they could be used to improve my game. I now do not take Special Characters which replace combat tactics as they form quite a bit of my overall tactics.

 

Heres some scenarios about how and when they should be used:

 

- Stopping your enemy from both shooting and assaulting your guys. You are just about to be shot and then assaulted. You take 25% casualties in the shooting phase and then you fall back voluntarily, therefore avoiding getting assaulted. Do this enough and the local players will not shoot at you before assaulting, thats OK as you have now reduced your overall damage and have a greater chance of dishing out some pain in the assault phase.

 

- Getting a unit out of a multi assault. Ok so we have been there before when multiple units are tied up in a combat where one unit is dragging the other one down. Think Scouts and TH/SS terminators in the same assault. You want the scouts to come out but you dont want them to take no retreat wounds due to sweeping advance, easy you just lose the combat and use combat tactics to let them escape without fearing as they cannot sweep you if they are still engaged.

 

- Extra retreat from Tank Shock. You get tank shocked, maybe the opponent is being sneaky and lining you up to get assaulted by a different unit or is hoping to group you and flame you with a nasty flamestorm cannon. Simply chose to fail your tank shock morale and you should be clear of the danger.

 

Of course the danger of this is the small print. And They Shall Know No Fear (ATSKNF) is only going to let you regroup if there are no enemies within 6" of you at the start of your turn. This is why combat tactics and ATSKNF is not a game breaking ability, it only allows you to get out of trouble in a small set of circumstances.

 

Mastering when to use this skill takes time and practice. My best advice to anyone is to find a good marine player and watch how they manage the skill. For me it was attending the Ultramarines Meet in Cambridge last year, most of the local marine players are either replacing combat tactics or are not using them at all. Practice it, use it in the circumstances I suggested above and see what works. Just be aware of where the enemy is when you do it.

 

IMPORTANT... The often overlooked aspect of ATSKNF is that the unit counts as stationary when they regroup rather than moving as it the norm for all other races. This will mean that any heavy weapons you have in that squad can happily return fire on whatever you have just run away from. This means that Dev squads can use Combat Tactics too, as well as your combat squad with heavy weapon. Dont just take the assault.

 

Wan

[gettothegone]

As a bike user:

 

They shoot me. I fall back 3D6, I regroup. If you have more mobility then them, its an excellent way of denying assaults, while setting up for your own.

 

Also, be cognizant of your location on a table. If you got bikes, and you're 12" from a table edge... you may want to avoid using this tactic.

 

Also, when I say assault, I mean a Command Squad... and if you're taking that much damage with a Command squad where you can take this check, you may wanna reconsider your tactics anyway, losing 2 units in a command squad is bad news... and somewhat hard to do unless you're eating multiple turns of incoming fire.

 

As a Sternguard User:

 

They shoot you, you fall back, you rapid fire. Encourage assaulty units to shoot you, most of the time they'll oblige. Then you just fall back and shoot them to death.

 

Technically, if you can deny someone the ability to Assault you, its like a free move to make it happen.

 

Edit: Beaten to the punch by waaanial00, but most people are going to tell you the same thing.

[Warprat]

Last week, when fighting Tyranids, the Swamplord made me make some kind of psychic leadership test for everyone of my squads within a certain distance. I used it to fall back one of my half strength Tac squads behind a ruin, where they could not be targeted by his shooty guants. It also cleared the way for my Terminators to retreat, if they failed thier leadership test.

That's wrong. The psychic power that forces Ld tests on every unit in range is NOT a morale check, and you can only choose to auto-fail Morale checks, not all Ld tests.

 

 

Thanks for the info...

[Warprat]

Combat tactics are a really good asset to use. They are not amazing good on paper which is why some people completely overlook them. It took me the better part of a year to understand how and when they could be used to improve my game. I now do not take Special Characters which replace combat tactics as they form quite a bit of my overall tactics.

 

Heres some scenarios about how and when they should be used:

 

- Stopping your enemy from both shooting and assaulting your guys. You are just about to be shot and then assaulted. You take 25% casualties in the shooting phase and then you fall back voluntarily, therefore avoiding getting assaulted. Do this enough and the local players will not shoot at you before assaulting, thats OK as you have now reduced your overall damage and have a greater chance of dishing out some pain in the assault phase.

 

- Getting a unit out of a multi assault. Ok so we have been there before when multiple units are tied up in a combat where one unit is dragging the other one down. Think Scouts and TH/SS terminators in the same assault. You want the scouts to come out but you dont want them to take no retreat wounds due to sweeping advance, easy you just lose the combat and use combat tactics to let them escape without fearing as they cannot sweep you if they are still engaged.

 

- Extra retreat from Tank Shock. You get tank shocked, maybe the opponent is being sneaky and lining you up to get assaulted by a different unit or is hoping to group you and flame you with a nasty flamestorm cannon. Simply chose to fail your tank shock morale and you should be clear of the danger.

 

Of course the danger of this is the small print. And They Shall Know No Fear (ATSKNF) is only going to let you regroup if there are no enemies within 6" of you at the start of your turn. This is why combat tactics and ATSKNF is not a game breaking ability, it only allows you to get out of trouble in a small set of circumstances.

 

Mastering when to use this skill takes time and practice. My best advice to anyone is to find a good marine player and watch how they manage the skill. For me it was attending the Ultramarines Meet in Cambridge last year, most of the local marine players are either replacing combat tactics or are not using them at all. Practice it, use it in the circumstances I suggested above and see what works. Just be aware of where the enemy is when you do it.

 

IMPORTANT... The often overlooked aspect of ATSKNF is that the unit counts as stationary when they regroup rather than moving as it the norm for all other races. This will mean that any heavy weapons you have in that squad can happily return fire on whatever you have just run away from. This means that Dev squads can use Combat Tactics too, as well as your combat squad with heavy weapon. Dont just take the assault.

 

Wan

 

 

 

Sorry for the double post... but nice tactica Wan!

 

 

 

How do Combat Squads figure into this? Seems like a perfect match for Combat Tactics... Better to Combat Squad everything (barring KP's,) or not?

 

Warprat ;)

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Well, I rarely combat squad. in my experiences 5 man squads are usually a big disappointment as soon as your opponent decides he wants them dead.

but if you can get away with a little distraction and they are ignored for long enough they actually work better

 

its like versatility vs raw power and survivability

because even if you take casualties on a 5 man squad and fail your combat tactics and fall back, regroup, etc.. what are 3 marines going to kill? not much

[Br.Pat]

I think combat squadding is an effective way of turning one scoring unit into two. Obviously don't leave that 5 man unit on it's own but back it up with diferent units. Or keep it in a transport.

[waaanial00]

How do Combat Squads figure into this? Seems like a perfect match for Combat Tactics... Better to Combat Squad everything (barring KP's,) or not?

 

Combat Squadding is again one of those nice little rules which is neither overpowered or useless. It works very well with Tactical squads as it makes the squad very "Tactical" in so much as you have to really think about the cost/benefit of doing so.

 

My personal feelings on Combat squadding is that it is very useful in certain circumstances and needs to be very carefully considered. Take the following example squad.

 

Full Tactical

Melta, Missile Launcher, Power Fist, Rhino

 

So with combat squadding you have a mini assault unit with transport and mini dev unit. No surprises there as its a fairly normal thing you would see done. Maximise your heavy weapon whilst at the same time allow for your Melta and Power Fist to get close enough to make the difference. This both lowers and increases the survival of the squad overall.

 

Giving you:

 

Combat squad A (assault)

Sergeant with Power Fist, Melta, 3 Bolters, Rhino

 

Combat sqaud B (Dev)

Missile Launcher, 4 bolters

 

 

Lowering Survival

 

Obviously there are less members per squad so any casualties suffered will have a more drastic effect. This also means that your key units (ones with the special weapons) are more likely to fall as there are less standard guys to take the bullets and more chance that wounds will have to be allocated to these guys.

 

They are also less capable of putting out a significant amount of firepower which is needed to sufficiently weaken some units to the point where assault in their turn is undesireable and more beneficial to you (10 rapid firing tacticals can maul an unprotected Ork unit to the point where they are likely to bounce off in their next combat turn).

 

Increasing survival (as a whole)

 

One of the things I am not sure people really get is that whilst a 5 man squad is easier to destroy than a 10 man squad, that doesnt mean that 2 5 man squads is as easy to kill as a single 10 man squad. For this I will explain a little further, and by the way I am not talking Mathammer here or warhammer in a vaccuum.

 

An army can only shoot at a fixed number of targets per turn (well usually), this is because 1 squad/vehicle/MC can only target 1 unit at a time. Before anyone points out that Long Fangs can shoot multiple targets, I am aware however as far as I know that is the only unit that can.

 

Given this and the unpredictable nature of Warhammer (a lascannon might not kill that Grot in open ground however a Terminator in cover with a Storm shield might fall to a grot blaster) in order to ensure destruction you usually have to task multiple units worth of fire onto a single target. Of course this doesnt guarentee anything but at least it ensures a better chance of it.

 

A single larger unit is therefore easier to concentrate weapons on, both from a simple maths of 2 V 1 is easier that 4 V 2 and from a realistic in game example of moving multiple units to a single target and general force concentration. Splitting your units into many smaller targets could help your unit survive overall by the fact that 1 combat squad might essentially suffers 10 casualties (therefore killing each member twice over) however the other squad only suffers 1 casualty. In a combined squad example the whole unit would be destroyed, however in combat squadding 1 combat squad survives.

 

In addition to this we have the concept of wound allocation and complex models. For this I will use the following example:

 

5 Marine combat squad

Sergeant, Plasma Gun, 3 bolters

 

Unit suffers 7 wounds, wounds get allocated

 

S xx

PG xx

B x

B x

B x

 

(Ok most people wouldnt but this works for this example)

 

Sergeant makes 1 save

PG makes both (he is waiting till he fires the plasma before he dies)

Bolter marines fail 1

 

So two marines die leaving 3 survivors. Nothing special, however consider the following result

 

Sergeant fails both

PG makes both

Bolter marines make all

 

So thats 1 marine dead from 2 failed saves, leaving 4 left from a unit of 5! The same result is not possible at those numbers because you would have had to stack more wounds into the Bolter pool (probably all of them) and therefore the size of the unit after saves would have been less.

 

Of course this only works in complex units however because marine units generally have a sergeant and at least 2 other different weapons for every squad, that can combat squad, it easily achievable.

 

 

Impact on Combat Tactics

 

In my opinion this makes combat tactics more desireable. With the increased chances that wounds fall on your special guys you probably wont want to chance combat. In addition to this with less members it requires less deaths before you have to take a morale test, also it means that you are more likely to lose combat even against mediocre assault units.

 

However buyer beware, whilst it might be sensible to chance this with the assault portion of the squad, you will probably not want to do this with the Dev portion. The combat squad with the heavy weapon is likely to be placed closer to the board edge and therefore is more likely to run off it should you chance it. However as suggested earlier, your heavy weapon will be able to fire if you can use ATSKNF so if you have the distance and it will give you a better angle or ensure you wont get assaulted then do it.

 

 

My thoughts

 

Combat squadding is nice to have but generally I find that the drop in sheer volume of shots means that their impact on the game is a lot less. I always take a missile launcher with my tacticals but generally never get to fire it, preferring to Bolter on the move. However if my Rhino gets destroyed and I am rapid firing anyway then the Missile Launcher comes in handy so never turn down a heavy weapon just because you think you will never get to shoot it.

 

Combat squadding does help Combat Tactics, I find that because of the smaller unit sizes they take enough casualties to give you the option each time they are shot at. However the thing with combat tactics is that it is very situational, you have to really take a look around and see what your retreat will open up for the next couple of turns.

 

Also I tend to see combat squads as more expendable than a full tactical so there are circumstances where combat tactics are more helpful but the situation calls for them not to be used.

 

Hope this helps

 

Wan

[Koremu]

Of course the danger of this is the small print. And They Shall Know No Fear (ATSKNF) is only going to let you regroup if there are no enemies within 6" of you at the start of your turn. This is why combat tactics and ATSKNF is not a game breaking ability, it only allows you to get out of trouble in a small set of circumstances.

The way to get around this is to take a Jump Pack Chaplain. If an enemy attempts to shepherd one of your units off the board after you use Combat Tactics, you Jump the Chaplain over (before moving the squad that is falling back), the Squad then automatically rallies before it falls back any further, and then you counter assault whoever just tried to make you run away.

 

People very soon stop trying to run you off if you do this enough.

 

 

EDIT: crossposted with waaanial00 - great post man, that could be worked up into a Librarium article.