Space Marine Tactica pdf.

[Tenebris]

Hello B&C

 

I have been searching on several Imperial Guard sites and on Warseer for a compendium of Imperial Guard tactics and I have found this jewel here Imperial Guard Tactica Download which was completed by a great community effort.

 

Now this compendium has all that a compendium needs to have, clear explanations, tactics and strategies, the presentations of all units and enough tips to teach a new IG player as well as illuminate the more experienced IG players. So what do you say, is the community on B&C able to undertake such a project?

 

I suggest some guidelines:

 

- Standard codex units first,

- Mechanized, assault, fire line and drop list,

- In detail description of the unit and its tactical role on the battlefield,

- Tactica Astrates or funny statements and quotes which introduce every section,

- We should discuss one unit at a time and collect all possible info on their use before creating the section,

 

So what do you say space marines?

[greatcrusade08]

As projects go, this is huggggeeee!

 

ill be watching this closely

 

edit: my scout expertise is yours to use, lemme know what you want to know

[Bannus]

It is a huge undertaking - believe me.

 

I was thinking (when I get the time) of composing an index that would be a sticky at the top of this forum and submitting our more accomplished works to our own Librarium.

 

As an overall subforum project - I think this seems a bit more realistic than a PDF download as it makes amending the entries (and participation) much easier.

 

My vote would be to build this 'compendium' as as a series of permanent articles in a sticky thread at the top of the forum.

[Captain Idaho]

I would like to volunteer for services! I would like to do a section dedicated to assaulting using the Codex.

 

Also, anyone who does the section on Space Marines characters, be sure to emphasise that they are support models, even the combat Captains etc. So many times people forget this when comparing the points costs of our characters to other armies. ;)

[waaanial00]

If you need general tactics on building a mainly shooting army then please ask. I also have some thoughts on target priority and how to shoot tanks.

 

Wan

[The Normish]

I fully support this proposition.

I am not the most experienced player, but I have experience with tactical and strategic thinking (not actual experience, but I have studied military history - Napoleon and the Romans, for example - not to mention playing a whole bunch of RTS games) and I think I might provide some generalized insights.

Again, this is a good idea. I think that an on-site resource would be more useful than a PDF.

 

EDIT: spelling.

[Tenebris]

Well here is how I suggest to start this thing:

 

1.) Create a sticky section for this project Tactica Astrates (moderators here we could use your help);

 

2.) Start with the generic description of the space marine army, its strengths and weaknesses, the most common schools of tactica astrates.

 

3.) When the introduction and the generic part is done we will move to the specific unit types:

 

- Troops,

- Elites,

- Fast Attack,

- Heavy Support,

- Special Characters.

 

4.) When the section from above is complete we will move towards the stand alone chapters, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels....where we will post the most common tactics and lists as well as their special characters and units.

 

5.) Army Lists, this section would be perhaps the most challenging thing to do but if we keep in mind the most common types of army lists it is possible to write it well:

- I have not so much SM experience but my idea of generic lists is:

- drop list

- gun line

- mechanized

- assault

- examples of kill teams (200 pts.)

- 2000 pts. for an all rounder and collection list.

 

6.) The unit and veichle deployement section.

 

7.) A Gallery, golden bolter winners will conclude well this project with the best miniatures displayed in an appropriate section.

 

 

Now this is a HUGE project but I have rarely seen a community so active as the Legio Bolter and Chainsword and I belive that if we give a timetable of a month per section we are able to complete it quite easily. As you can see the sections are forming an Index and a member with good computer skills can easily create a very nice pdf. file that could be aviable for all the community. I belive that with this project we will become more known and perhaps many new members will wish to join us, without counting the impact on the space marine players community.

 

Sorry for the wall of text ^_^

 

Brother Nero, out.

[waaanial00]

I think it would be best to concentrate on the Codex Marines first, get the whole thing down and then try and move on to Dark Angels, Black Templars etc.

 

Despite obvious similarities there are just too many differences in rules to encorporate the non codex into a numbered point. Everything you have written from point 1 through to 7 will likely have subtle differences for Blood Angels as Space Wolves. The listing of Elite Choices alone is majorly different depending on whether you are codex or not.

 

Wan

[Bannus]

For the most part, it should focus on Codex Marines. Not to offend any of the other Chapters (or Legions,etc), but if you look at each of the subforums, they each have their own tacticas unique to their Chapter.

 

Well here is how I suggest to start this thing:

 

1.) Create a sticky section for this project Tactica Astrates (moderators here we could use your help);

A sticky isn't a problem. But I think it is a bit premature without any content to put into it.

 

2.) Start with the generic description of the space marine army, its strengths and weaknesses, the most common schools of tactica astrates.

As an introduction, this seems reasonable.

 

3.) When the introduction and the generic part is done we will move to the specific unit types:

 

- Troops,

- Elites,

- Fast Attack,

- Heavy Support,

- Special Characters.

This is where a lot of tacticas seem to get bogged down and perhaps a bit distracting. Players get overwhelmed just trying to read about the myriad ways each unit can be used. I'd save this portion for later.

 

Start with general concepts and then move into the details.

 

4.) When the section from above is complete we will move towards the stand alone chapters, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels....where we will post the most common tactics and lists as well as their special characters and units.

As I stated before, each of these Chapters with their own subforums have their own stickies regarding tactics. We would be gong over some well-travelled ground if we went in that direction. I would omit this step altogether.

 

5.) Army Lists, this section would be perhaps the most challenging thing to do but if we keep in mind the most common types of army lists it is possible to write it well:

- I have not so much SM experience but my idea of generic lists is:

- drop list

- gun line

- mechanized

- assault

This is where I think we should start - with styles of play. I'm not sure if these are categories we should have or others. I would hate to "box in" strategies and these types of categories could do that.

 

This is the reason why I haven't proposed collating the materials into a comprehensive tactica yet. I feel this should be the most important part and I want to make sure the "divisions" are the best they can be. I was thinking of maybe dividing them into their elemental catagories first: fire, water, air and earth (I think I'm leaving one out) and then go into subcategories for each that could define the army more like "Bike-themed" or "drop pod" armies and what units have synergy in these armies and which ones do not. The more general we are to begin with, the more successful it should be (that is my theory anyway). Then maybe a section devoted to the meta-game.

 

- examples of kill teams (200 pts.)

- 2000 pts. for an all rounder and collection list.

I think Kill Teams should be left out - at least for now. A project of this magnitude does need to be intentionally made that much bigger. When eating an elephant, it is best to take it one bite at a time.

 

I'm on the fence about example lists. Examples can both help and hinder. They can give players some ideas, but also can stifle a player's own inventive processes.

 

6.) The unit and veichle deployement section.

I'm not sure if this should be in its own section or as a part of the general strategies of the army. My thinking leans towards making each element as much of a stand-alone work as possible.

 

7.) A Gallery, golden bolter winners will conclude well this project with the best miniatures displayed in an appropriate section.

Golden Bolter material goes in the PC&A section, but some illustrations wouldn't hurt - but we don't want them to distract either.

 

Now photos to help explain a particular tactic or to better illustrate a tactic would be most welcome.

 

Another section that would be invaluable would be to resurrect the old "Know Thy Enemy" tacticas to better prepare the Marine player for the army he will be facing (including other Space Marines).

 

I've put a lot of thought into this concept over the past few months (can't you tell?) and I think this is a better progression.

 

Now this is a HUGE project but I have rarely seen a community so active as the Legio Bolter and Chainsword and I belive that if we give a timetable of a month per section we are able to complete it quite easily.

Forcing a timetable onto anything that requires volunteers to complete is a bad idea - especially one so short. I think it should remain a "living" document that can easily be ammended and refined.

 

As you can see the sections are forming an Index and a member with good computer skills can easily create a very nice pdf. file that could be aviable for all the community.

That would be up to the Admins of the forum, but placing it in a PDF format would limit how easily/often it could be amended.

 

I belive that with this project we will become more known and perhaps many new members will wish to join us, without counting the impact on the space marine players community.

Or the Space Marin Painter. :cuss

[Warprat]

I think bannus makes some good points. I agree that starting with different army styles would be best. I suggest, however, that it would be best to divide by point levels as this makes a huge fifference. New players (and veterans) could then use the guide to help plan thier growth direction and purchases. As more points are applied, the variety of lists would grow like a mushroom.

 

 

 

Space Marine Codex:

 

 

Water

 

Tactics section

Favored units

 

- 500 pts

- 750

- 1000

- 1250

- 1500

- 1750

- 1850

- 2000

 

 

 

Earth

 

Tactics section

Favored units

 

- 500 pts

- 750

- 1000

- 1250

- 1500

- 1750

- 1850

- 2000

 

 

Edit- As I think about it a little more... it would be interesting to see each army style (water, earth, etc...) "branch off" like a tree, the leaves being the 2000 pt lists.

 

 

 

 

Warprat ;)

[Bannus]

I suggest, however, that it would be best to divide by point levels as this makes a huge difference.

I think that this would make the project way too large and overly cumbersome. A few simple remarks throughout the tactica like "not recommended at lower point games" or "these units are a must at any point level" should suffice. However, it should focus on games of around 1500 points because that is the level the game is intended to be played.

[Vanor]

I'm rather new to WH as a whole, so I can't offer much in the way of help writing it.

 

But if you want someone to read it over and give you a newb's point of view I'd be happy to help with that.

[The Normish]

I suggest, however, that it would be best to divide by point levels as this makes a huge difference.

I think that this would make the project way too large and overly cumbersome. A few simple remarks throughout the tactica like "not recommended at lower point games" or "these units are a must at any point level" should suffice. However, it should focus on games of around 1500 points because that is the level the game is intended to be played.

Agreed. There seem to be too many point recommendation options.Maybe just do some for 500 points, 1500 points, and 2000 and above. Or just general comments.

[gettothegone]

Assigning point costs is probably not a good idea as there IS no point level the game is intended to be played at. 1500 for you, 1850 for me, 2500 for Ard'Boys. What should be looked at is each individual unit and how you can possibly get the MOST out of it from deployment to turn 7.

 

A breakdown of a units strong points and how to minimize its weak points and maximize its strong points using other aspects of the codex should be the focus. Once you start placing point recommendations, all you're going to get is another army list review forum, where nobody agrees, and everyone thinks their army is top tier.

 

Grey Mage had an excellent thread for Eldar which while I thought was good and to the point. But what I really see is a good blueprint to where and how you want to take this.

 

Do everything by UNIT.. ignore point costs. Let people submit Tactics, Theory, Mathammer, and illustrations for each entry.

 

Then let the end user digest and learn what tactics and combination's work right for them since your 500-1850 point army may work well in your area... it may get eaten alive in mine, and vice versa.

 

Teaching how to think critically > serving up more army lists.

 

I think that this would make the project way too large and overly cumbersome. A few simple remarks throughout the tactica like "not recommended at lower point games"

 

:D

 

If we want to start dividing into point costs, might as well dump the Army List Review forum into a PDF and serve. If you want to educate and install a good sense of generalship using C:SM, then you're cooking with gas.

 

Make the Units into Modular Sections

Set Guidelines for what you want to see out of each one.

Then append it to a PDF

 

Set WHAT you want first. Everyone wants to write, and you'll have hundreds of submissions, but without any guidelines, this is doomed.

 

You started a guideline above... you just need more modulation, KEEP GOING!

[chapter master 454]

well I'd help out, my knowledge of the Earth style is yours.

 

A living document is a good idea as well, keeps it nce and easy to fix.

 

I would also advise that all members of the project have their own personal modifable version, so IF the project is finished a single 'Lost in warp' won't destroy it all.

[Bannus]

Make the Units into Modular Sections

Set Guidelines for what you want to see out of each one.

Then append it to a PDF

 

Set WHAT you want first. Everyone wants to write, and you'll have hundreds of submissions, but without any guidelines, this is doomed.

 

You started a guideline above... you just need more modulation, KEEP GOING!

As I said in an earlier post - I have really wanted to do a project like this but I hadn't brought this idea up yet because I hadn't finalized in my mind what format would really work best.

[Captain Idaho]

Right I'm gonna get writting on some stuff and see what you think of it, so we can decide on format etc.

[IvorTangrean]

Count me in as well, I my tactics may not be the best but I would be willing to help with the compiling / editing of the document.

[Bannus]

Right I'm gonna get writting on some stuff and see what you think of it, so we can decide on format etc.

I'd hate to see you commit to writing something when we are still deciding on the format.

 

Let's hold off on any writing until then. :jaw:

[gettothegone]

Proposed Starting Submission Format

 

Shamelessly stolen from Grey Mage

 

 

Vindicator

Say hello to my little friend.

 

 

The Vindicator is a simplistic Heavy Choice which does not lend itself many upgrades by way of offensive weaponry.. blahblahlah, insightful overview of tank, vanilla price tag to fully upgraded.

 

Overveiw: This is where you discuss the vanilla build of said instrument of death.

 

Pros: This is where you talk about the huge gun and the AV13 front.

 

Cons: This is where you talk about the slow speed and AV10 rear.

 

Mounted: This is non relevant.

 

Synergy: This is where you talk about what units can really make for a bad day if you combine them together. Ie. Libby with Null Zone, couple of empty flanking rhinos for side protection ETC.

 

How to Deploy: This is where you talk about unique deployments that can really help you live longer, kill more, die less.

 

What to Kill: This is where you talk about target selection. Why 2+ scouts are a terrible choice v. that newly teleported tactical terminator squad.

 

How to Die: This is where you talk about ways that the Vindicator can die. Mathhammer is good here when you wanna look at taking your chances.

 

Tactica: Insert long diatribe about how you use your vindicator. This will be edited at a further date to include relevant data / battle rep / tactical information.

 

 

The key is to keep everything realistic. Telling everyone how you demolished 2000 pts of your opponents army using a vindicator alone better be backed up with a whole world of tactical advice. Bad dice rolls on your opponents side is not Tactics.. unless you mathammered every single move you made. In which case.. see "whole world of tactical advice".

 

 

Yes / No / Add your own?

 

EDIT: This is just generic data gathering, pretty pictures, and PDF outlines should be designed later.

[Sparhawk]

I love the format. It has everything you would want to know in a well thought out format. Good work Brother! :confused:

[The Normish]

Seems reasonable enough.

Maybe you should also include some brief fluff about the unit in question.

[Sparhawk]

I would be afraid that the fluff would just rapidly inflate the size of the tactica and fluff arguments/inconsistencies could shift the focus away from tactics. Fluff is all well and good but all that information can be found in the codex descriptions of the units.

 

I understand including it if this is also meant to be used as a resource for people considering making an army switch but from a pure Tactica standpoint the fluff is wholly irrelevant. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who loves the fluff more than me, it's just that I feel there are better places to discuss it then right here.

[Bannus]

Fluff is not the focus of a Tactica - tactics are. So we should leave fluff out.

 

It looks like a reasonable template for when we get to the individual units, but I still believe we should focus on army styles first. It is this basic structure of the army that a player needs to decide on first.

 

I don't think we should assign or volunteer any one person to focus on each Tactica - rather a thread will be set up for each topic that any and all players can contribute to. Once we have enough information, then one or more individuals will compile that information into a single cohesive tactica that flows and is easy to understand.

 

The more people we have contributing their experiences on a given subject, the better it will be.

[The Normish]

On retrospect, I admit that fluff is a bad idea for the tactica.

bannus - I agree with your stance on the thread contribution. It would be more of a community project if everyone contributes what they can.