2nd Founding chapters of Dropsite Massacre Legions

[minigun762]

I'm confused how the Iron Hands and Raven Guard were able to create 2nd Founding Chapters whereas the Salamanders couldn't but they had all been decimated by the DSM.

[Legatus]

The 2nd Founding happened about a decade (or two?) after the end of the heresy, so perhaps those three Legions used the time to rebuild. The Legions would have consisted of young 20-30 year old Marines, but the Imperial Fists spent some more years after the 2nd Founding to retrain, so perhaps those Legions did that as well. The Salamanders might have had a slower recruitment rate, perhaps they only recruit from their home world while Raven Guard and Iron Hands recruit from different worlds as well?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

*looks at Legatus*

 

EDIT: Dammit man, you were supposed to finish after I posted! :cuss

[Michael W]

Iron Hands only lost the vets, so the rest of the legion was still around to provide enough manpower to be broken up. Corax of the Raven Guard rushed the make-a-marine process, resulting in a rapid rebuilding of his Legion (cause he wanted to get back in the fight) but making a whole slew of nightmarish monsters in the process (as lots of would-be marines didn't take to the implants so well). However, it did still build up his Legion quickly. The Salamanders, however, apparently went back to square one and rebuilt the slow, steady, and time-proven way (as the Salamanders are still wont to do). Come the Second Founding, the Hands and Guard were up to well over a thousand marines each, while the Sallies apparently were still at or under that number.

[Koremu]

Wasn't part of the Salamanders problem not only that they lost so many men, but they also lost vast amounts of their war materiel?

[c-wrex]

Also, based off of what we just learned from A Thousand Sons, the Thousand Sons legion numbered less than ten thousand, and the Sallies were already known as the smallest legion, so if they were smaller than ten thousand warriors, it wouldn't be hard to smash their numbers down to the barest, most scary small amount of marines.

[Ju'kosian]

Wasn't part of the Salamanders problem not only that they lost so many men, but they also lost vast amounts of their war materiel?

 

Yes this was mentioned in the Index astartes article when they had their own rules to make a list, restricting some choices in the codex..

I don't know if this is still mentioned in the fluff..

 

Could be logic as only the 'ravenguard" and Salamanders would have fully deployed with support material (vehicles etc), the IronHands rushed towards Istvaan with only veterans and other things that would fit in their fastest battle barge.

[minigun762]

Also, based off of what we just learned from A Thousand Sons, the Thousand Sons legion numbered less than ten thousand, and the Sallies were already known as the smallest legion, so if they were smaller than ten thousand warriors, it wouldn't be hard to smash their numbers down to the barest, most scary small amount of marines.

 

I just finished Thousand Sons but I didn't see a reference to the Salamanders being the smallest legion.

Not saying I don't believe you, just didn't know that. ;)

[Legatus]

It says so in the Salamanders Index Astartes article, under 'Gene-Seed'.

[Michael W]

Sallies are a construction-based chapter. Getting fully re-equipped wouldn't have been hard, especially given the good relations they have with the Adeptus Mechanicus and their own crafting skills. But, assuming they are similar now to how they were at the Heresy, they would have had a smaller scout pool - proportionately - than other Legions. That means they had fewer bodies to fill the holes in the Legion, so rebuilding was probably a very slow process.

 

The IA restrictions were to fast equipment, which their homeworld makes it difficult to train in. It's not that they don't have it, it's just that they don't use it.

[The emperors chosen]

Iron hands-sent the termi armored veterans known as the Morlock, led by Ferrus Mannus, this was all that was sent, so there was basically still an entire legion untouched

Raven Guard-used gene science to replenish numbers, but it turned a good percent of the initiates into monsters, Corax killed them all, then left

Salamanders-lost a good part of the legion, had to rebuild, slowly

[c-wrex]

Thank you for the IA reference, Legatus.

 

And yeah the Sallies did have a relatively slow training and recruitment process, on account of the apprenticeship system they have in place for new aspirants. This system was always one of the reasons I really liked the chapter. It's reminiscent of medieval knights' practice of being a squire for an established knight. Those who are skilled enough and smart enough and tough enough to earn their master's approval get to advance.

 

I find this to be totally awesome.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Thank you for the IA reference, Legatus.

 

And yeah the Sallies did have a relatively slow training and recruitment process, on account of the apprenticeship system they have in place for new aspirants. This system was always one of the reasons I really liked the chapter. It's reminiscent of medieval knights' practice of being a squire for an established knight. Those who are skilled enough and smart enough and tough enough to earn their master's approval get to advance.

 

I find this to be totally awesome.

 

You find it awesome because it is totally awesome.

 

WLK

[hazardousZERO]

Iron hands-sent the termi armored veterans known as the Morlock, led by Ferrus Mannus, this was all that was sent, so there was basically still an entire legion untouched

Raven Guard-used gene science to replenish numbers, but it turned a good percent of the initiates into monsters, Corax killed them all, then left

Salamanders-lost a good part of the legion, had to rebuild, slowly

Hence why my legion has very few suites of tactical dreadnought armor. Mannus was accompanied buy 10 companies of the morlocks in the drop-sight massacre.

 

If you play fluff homegrown IH rules from this sight witch i do sometimes the only time you can take sutes of TDA is on SGTs, CDR or as a CPTs bodyguard. Also Ven dreads are HQ

[Vodunius]

Hence why my legion has very few suites of tactical dreadnought armor.

 

Actually unless I'm mistaken it has never been stated that they have a shortage of Terminator Armour, the lack of Terminator Squads is purely because they prefer to issue the suits to sergeants instead. (if the IH have the same number of suits as the Ultramarines then they'd only have 7 suits per company)

[Verythrax Draconis]

Keep on mind that what remained from the original Iron Hands only formed 3 chapters in the 2nd founding (the chapter that kept the original name included). I think it represents very well how far from being at full force the Iron Hands were at the occasion of the second founding :)

 

And yes, the original IA says that they have very few TDAs left, so that's why they give it to the sarges, cause they believe that's a better used of such limited asset.