Long Fangs - what weapons do you choose?

[Uncooked]

Searching through the forums using that search button didn't bring anything up on this subject, so i thought I may open up a discussion;

 

Browsing around through the army lists I see a lot of people taking long fangs, they are the only choice of ranged firepower on infantry models, even the longest range weapon is 48" which is not enough to reach corner to corner on a standard 6x4` table (especially bad in apocalypse games).

 

Choice of weapons;

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv34/Sam260308/Space%20Wolves/LongFangsMC2010_0328_075606.jpg

 

We are very fortunate to have the cheapest choice of heavy weapons for our long fangs, at around 10points cheaper then standard marines. What peapons can we choose from our local armory?

 

Heavy bolters - at 5pts a piece these are the most awesome cheap anti-infantry heavy weapons you can get - no other army can match it, and people are unaware to their dirt cheap points cost outside of SW player. 1 unit of 5 heavy bolters is fun to fire, average kills against a space marine army is between 2-3 models.

 

Missile launchers - theoretically the most diverse heavy weapon, able to shoot frags at light infantry and krak at tanks. Their inability to take down terminators using krak shots amuses me the most.

 

Multi-meltas - Fantastic deterrent in keeping enemy heavy armour or high toughness units away, absolutely anti-tank killer, AP1 and double roll within 12"... Shame you don't get many in a box :wallbash:

 

Plasma Cannons - don't see many of these around, my friend told me that 'you only pay for plasma cannons if you want grief' I found this true when a space marine player over heated in 4 consecutive turns of shooting (by which time my terminators had arrived on foot from reserves to shake his hand. Overheating is a killer to yourself, but with such a high possibility of killing a lot of heavy infantry models, how come people don't use these more?

 

Lascannons - Longest highest strength and very good AP weapon, great for taking out terminators to tanks at range, nothing can hide from this unless if your out of range and not hiding.

 

My personal preference is either;

2 multi-meltas, 3 missile launchers (on the cheap)

2 missile launchers and 3 lascannons

 

We already have lots of bolters, living lightning and Grey Hunter squads to take care of light infantry, and I relish it even more when we close into close combat, i'v never found that heavy bolters actually affect the overall scheme of the battle. heavy weapons kill things quick and immediatly, opening up new priorities for you to shoot at with other units.

 

With the new wound allocation in the new rulebook you will end up in no doubt taking armour saves on more then one model if your opponent rolls well, is being the case you will lose a few heavy weapons or squad leader from your unit and will no doubt lose the entire squad in the next turn of shooting.

Prioritize what you need to kill in game before allocating wounds, many times has the squad leader eaten the dust as the heavy armour on the other side of the table requires all shooting to be done on it for several turns in order to kill it properly.

 

 

I have seen many people take 1 unit of Long Fangs with 5 missile launchers, and then perhaps shoved them into a transport of some sort.

 

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv34/Sam260308/Space%20Wolves/LongFangsMC2010_0328_075913.jpg

 

Although this is highly appealing at 180 basic, it does come with some major drawbacks that I see;

1) if you are using the razorback during the start of the game, your loosing an entire turn of shooting with the transport

2) the missile launchers 'Miss', with their low strength, and AP3 they have let me and other marine players enough times

3) even if you shoot frags, you need to roll to hit 1/3 chance that you will, and an average roll of 7" means that you scatter usually off the target

 

My question is this - why do you choose what you have in your long fangs squad, is it down to preference (trying to get it to be great in all forms, so mixing heavy weapons with heavy bolters) the local players at your store (tailoring your army to specifically fight his (not a fan of people doing this to me)), or because you had some points left over and thought it would be a cool idea to throw in a cheap unit at the end of your list to build some points.

 

Show your method and working out.

 

Uncooked

[Simo429]

2 LC's and 3 ML's in a razorback with lascannons

 

Like to keep it all at the same range

[Token]

You have them in the razorback? Or does the razorback drive around on its own?

 

The heavy bolters looks cool.

[Uncooked]

I never field my Long Fangs in Rhinos or Razorbacks, it was mealy a demonstration picture to break up the text.

 

I am intrested to know how people play with their long fangs with dedicated transports.

[Hfran Morkai]

I run three Missile Launchers, Two Lascannons and a Lascannon Razorback (might stick a Hunter Killer on there as well) and then I have the three Heavy Bolters and two Plasma Cannon pack with a Heavy Bolter Razorback.

 

The Pack fills the same role with each weapon, meaning loss of the Pack Leader isn't too much of a blow to me and the weapons maintain the same range kill-zone.

 

I use Razorbacks as an additional way to gain firepower and as I play an Iron Company it is fluffy. But in Dawn of War deployments it can be immensely useful, allowing my Long Fangs to get good arcs of fire.

[Wolf Lord Karulfr]

I just finished assembling mine this week. I went with 2 LCs, 2 HBs, and the missile launcher. I plan to eventually get more missile launchers. I don't like having melta on the heavy weapon squads; I leave that to the Grey Hunters who are moving forward anyway.

 

If I were running an armored column, I would take Long Fangs in a Razorback just to get the extra tank, otherwise no transport for them.

[Brother Remus]

Missle Launchers, 4 of them, drop pod.

Nice and cheap and can switch between anti-tank or heavy infantry, or switch to anti-mass.

Great fire base, and highly survivable if you place them right.

Prefer them to a Dread because I don't like the possibility of the dread going up in one shot.

[spjaco]

Here shortly I will be running with 6 ML, 3 HB, 2 PC, 2 LC, 2 MM total.

I guess I will break that down into three squads.

[Uncooked]

Here shortly I will be running with 6 ML, 3 HB, 2 PC, 2 LC, 2 MM total.

I guess I will break that down into three squads.

 

What will you be doing with those squads? sticking them in transports, throwing them up front as far as you can, or sitting them at the rear on foot?

[Simo429]

Here shortly I will be running with 6 ML, 3 HB, 2 PC, 2 LC, 2 MM total.

I guess I will break that down into three squads.

id like to see how your squad break down works

 

do you spread out the tank hunting weapons with the more infantry based ones or go for specific squads?

[Ullr Direfang]

well until i get more ML, i currently run 3 to 4 LC (depending on who/what i am fighting) and 1 to 2 ML and when i run two squads the other is usually 4 HB/PC and 1 ML. tend to actually have some luck with my PC. one has only ever overheated once and killed the guy, but that is part of the fun of the game. i also tend to run a lot of plasma so maybe i am just a plasma-head.

[milmaa]

I like Plasma too I have to say Ullr! Its always fun rolling to hit with them, like you say abit of fun! But then i'm no serious gamer (yet)!

 

I dont have my Long Fangs yet, so I'm finding it interesting to see what everyone else is running. I was thinking for my first squad to try 3 ML 2 LC with a TL-LC Razorback as support. But I wont have them for a while so that could easy change.

[Grey Mage]

My question is this - why do you choose what you have in your long fangs squad, is it down to preference (trying to get it to be great in all forms, so mixing heavy weapons with heavy bolters) the local players at your store (tailoring your army to specifically fight his (not a fan of people doing this to me)), or because you had some points left over and thought it would be a cool idea to throw in a cheap unit at the end of your list to build some points.

 

Show your method and working out.

 

Uncooked

I take things based on price, and I dont take full squads usually- I take five man. Again, this is to keep them cheap.

 

My favorite squad by far is : 2xLC, 2x ML. I find it gives me alot of reliable firepower, and combined with a landspeeder or two will take out the tanks I need to remove well up into th 1750 range.

 

Other squads: 2xML, 2xPC- If Im expecting a horde rich enviroment, and/or alot of elite infantry Ill drop 10pts off the squad and take these guys. Not having lascannons in the army makes me a little nervous though, so I prefer to do it only when I can take a standard landraider or a TLLC dreadnaught as backup.

 

I dont take 4x HBs, despite the decent price- a Dakkapred is generally simpler, cheaper, and the autocannon increases the effectiveness for me. Usually though if I was considering that build, Ive already got a whirlwind and instead consider taking a second.

 

I find that 4x LC is simply to expensive for most games. If the enemy is bringing enough heavy armor that 2 cant stop it then 4 probly wont either and I need to rely on melta weaponry to get the job done. On the other hand 4xML is a nice setup, but I wouldnt take it in anything over 1000pts, because the chances of seeing AV 14 become exponentially larger- and they were bad to begin with.

[Mammon]

Typically I face orks. A lot of orks. So I have two squads with a pair of heavy bolters and missile launchers or plasmacannons and bolters. They zip around with heavy bolter razorbacks to find good spots to dig in. I have started to gear the pack leader out with power weapons to give the squad some extra bite in Close Combat. That is where all my battles end up anyway!

 

If I have the points than I pair the Long Fangs with a speeder or two equipped similarly. It distracts and picks up the slack while the squad moves to a new position or it can be a great speedbump to mess with their charge.

[clanfield]

i run with 3 ml 2 lc and im adding a new 2hb 1 ml 2 pc to help my new ork oponent die faster

idealy id like 5 ml as you can divied up the squad based on the targets betwween 2 anti tank and anti infantry targets

[Levitas]

I take them as the core transport poppers. Running 2 squads with 5 MLs each, and a cyclone wolfguard with one. To take out tougher stuff they have 2 typhoon speeders with multi meltas to help.

 

There are days when I face a lot of AV13 and they can let me down. But most of the time rhinos and the like disapear, while the amount of frag helps with hordes, despite scatter.

 

They have no bodies to soak up hits, so you have to keep them cheap and at range. That rules out several weapons straight away. The ML has versatility and low points cost on its side, and if you do face stuff MLs cant take out then the rest of your force should be packing something that can. Like hunters with melta.

 

Downfalls of the rest:

 

las - expenisve and only one point above kraks str 8. Plus no template mode for when no tanks in sight.

Multi melta - short range, leaving you with no targets or very likely to get charged.

Plas - small template and over heats, and lets face it - cover is every where in 5th so even terminators can grab a cover save.

Heavy bolter - 2nd to the MLs, so not that bad, but still lacks that str 8 which can insta kill a lot of stuff.

 

I dont take a razor back, although I do see the benefits of a cheap HB giving out free rides.

[Hear da Lamentation]

i either go for 4 ML if facing hoardes, or 1LC,1PC,2ML for the rest.

 

as mentioned, the PCs can leave you ... well dead. BUT I have had a number of massive hits from the PC - wiping out termies like no tomorrow. Whenever I have had no PCs I regretted it.

[SeanyPrawny]

Usually only run 2LC and 2 HB for the devrsity of anti-tank and anti-personal. I have just made a 5ML pack though that i will be using in conjuncture with the other pack in my 1000pt list.

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

I'm a big fan of all missile launchers. It served me well in my past dozen games. The versatility, range, damage potential, and low cost are all selling points for me.

[OnlyInDeath]

i'm another that isn't afraid to take the 5xML

 

The metagame in these parts is heavy on the mechanized transports,landspeeders, dreads, etc. The ability to deal with light armor is on the cheap is wonderful.

 

Now, i do PURCHASE the razorback w/ TLLC for these guys, but I dont start them in it unless there's no way around it (dawn of war). A 48" field of fire gives them control over most of the board so deployment with a decent field of fire is key. I also use the transport to limit what my enemy can see of the pack itself, hoping to alleviate some of the inevitable incoming fire into the pack. But I can almost always find some nice little piece of cover to plop these guys into and they mow down light armor. with the whole unit, including the razorback, coming in at 215 pts, its a downright steal.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

3 packs of 6 each with 5 missile launchers. if you want a hybrid list then take the laz plas razorback over the twin linked lascannon. gives you a shot at both tank and heavy infantry instead of wasting anti tank on termies and marines for the same price.

 

 

personally i run 3 packs of 6 with 15 missiles launchers between the three of them with no transports as ive gone fully foot.

 

for these 18 models they only cost 420. compare this to the common land raider hammers seen in many list and the firepower i provide will often knock out that land raider and makes your hammer into a more brittle glass hammer. the sheer fire power these guys provide with range, anti marine, anti horde, anti vehicle fire power is to never be underestimated.

 

my favorite tatic is the alpha strike with bjorn and logan. max out on long fangs as i do and wolf guard cyclone termies and your looking to about 25 missiles opening turn. and if you fire smart and roll decent you can either keep most of his army from moving or shooting first turn to absolutely destroying his mech.

[Uncooked]

for these 18 models they only cost 420. compare this to the common land raider hammers seen in many list and the firepower i provide will often knock out that land raider and makes your hammer into a more brittle glass hammer. the sheer fire power these guys provide with range, anti marine, anti horde, anti vehicle fire power is to never be underestimated.

 

Thats really taking those missile launchers to the extreme! :D I do kinda enjoy that.

 

you'd be very lucky to knock out a land raider in one turn of shooting, considering you can only glance the thing on a 6, then you'd have to roll for at least 4 more 6's and 5's to immobilize and take its weapons away before you can count it as destroyed.

 

 

Hearing some very interesting combos, still not sold on the idea of razorbacks (but thats another thread we can do later ;))

 

Thanks for taking a keen interest to this subject guys, very much appreciate it!

[wiplash]

Although this is highly appealing at 180 basic, it does come with some major drawbacks that I see;

1) if you are using the razorback during the start of the game, your loosing an entire turn of shooting with the transport

2) the missile launchers 'Miss', with their low strength, and AP3 they have let me and other marine players enough times

3) even if you shoot frags, you need to roll to hit 1/3 chance that you will, and an average roll of 7" means that you scatter usually off the target

 

personally i run 2 squads of 5 ML, even more basic at 120 points each

no razor back

 

Krak:

S8 can damage any armour, armour 14 you will glance with 2 if you fire all 10 weapons (but i leave AV14 to other units personally, melta bombs and weapons prefferable)

AP3 gives most units no armour save and causes instant death to most characters

Most tough creatures have T8 at the most very few units have T9 or T10 so they are usually wounding on atleast a 4+ with no save (wraithlords a great example of this)

 

Frag:

usually will hit at least 2-3 guys, if you hit them after they have just disembarked then you can get up to 8 (thats my record!)

you are nearly right that they hit on a 1 in 3 roll how ever that is slightly off for example:

unit of 5 shoot frag missiles

5

rolling the scatter dice its a 1 in 3 chance of hitting

5 x 1/3

failing this if they roll a cumulative 4 or less then it also hits so:

(5 x 1/3) + (5 x 1/3 x 4/12) = 44.44% chance of hitting ;)

(please correct me if im wrong here)

 

also you are wrong on the scatter, the average roll of a dice is 3.5, 2 dice = 7" but you minus 4 for the BS giving you a 3" scatter on average

which depending on the direction is likely to get you hits still

 

so ML are diverse and cheap, i think i will be mixing them up with lascannons or plasma cannons in future for a little more firepower

[spjaco]

Simo429 -

id like to see how your squad break down works

 

do you spread out the tank hunting weapons with the more infantry based ones or go for specific squads?

 

Well the one Long Fang Squad is for deepstriking fun with 3 HB and 2 MM.

The others will look something like this:

1 SQD 2 PC's, 3 ML w/Razorback with Lascannon Turret +TL Plasma Guns

1 SQD 2 LC's, 3 ML w/Razorback TL Lascannon

Plus when the deepstrike LF goes in with the troops it will have a Razorback with either TL Lascannon or TL MM.

 

As far as how I place them its usually not too close to the edge of the board (been outflanked/inflitrated too often), and either move them the first turn or start blasting, depending on who went first, the enemy I am facing, and the size of any available targets.

 

UNCOOKED - I like how you shortened the Lascannons barrel. Makes it even more "Wolfy."

[milmaa]

Now, i do PURCHASE the razorback w/ TLLC for these guys, but I dont start them in it unless there's no way around it (dawn of war). A 48" field of fire gives them control over most of the board so deployment with a decent field of fire is key. I also use the transport to limit what my enemy can see of the pack itself, hoping to alleviate some of the inevitable incoming fire into the pack. But I can almost always find some nice little piece of cover to plop these guys into and they mow down light armor. with the whole unit, including the razorback, coming in at 215 pts, its a downright steal.

 

thats exactly what I had in mind for mine. ;)