Balanced Non Meta Army

[Anerythristic]

I am new. I have mainly just been painting but would like to start to play soon. What I have seen to my dismay is there is a strong short range Anti Tank metagame. Lots of redundant anti tank.

 

I was wondering if because of this would it be viable to field a cerfully moving (not slow moving...careful :D) balanced assault. Long Range Artillery (Anti Infantry and Tank Softening would be a dream) - Mid Range Armor Based Fire - Armor on the move with infantry in the rear foot or mobile for mop up; with fast attack specialized for hit and run Anti Tank duty.

 

Now I have no idea what counts for "good" artillery. I know the Hellfire Cannon and the Whirlwind exist but...hat I need help on this.

 

Mid Range I would use Predators unless someone thinks strongly otherwise for something else.

 

I also figure Dreads would fit the build well.

 

I would like my fast attack to be a squad of speeders not bikes.

 

Any ideas would help.

[minigun762]

I think you will have zero problem making that work. With Codex Marines you have alot of flexibility and playing an army with a range of shooting options is a smart move.

 

You could go with Land Raiders as your mobile mid range units. Moving 6" and firing 2 weapons is very nice.

 

Or you could go with Vindicators. Again you can move 6" and still fire that main weapon.

 

Or even Dreadnoughts for the same reason.

 

Predators are a bit confusing because you'd think that a light/medium tank would be more mobile but Predators work best as long range bunkers.

 

Either the Whirlwind or Thunderfire work as long range fire support but be aware that neither are very effective against anything but the lightest armor. If you want long range anti-armor, I'd look towards the Combi-Predator (AC/LC) since all its weapons are 48" and strong enough to kill medium armor.

 

Speeders or Attack Bikes work perfectly as the fast flankers and both have access to Multi-Meltas which are one of your strongest anti-tank weapons.

[Anerythristic]

Thank You, I am glad you totally understand what I meant. I simply don't want to scream "Charge!" jump into armored transports and crash into the enemy head on for a full strength vs. full strength war of attrition.

 

I would love to be able to get some organized long range shots off at approaching armor , followed up by fast attack. The issue is it seems that if I play another Space Marine player there are no "surprise" long range Anti Tank options. I am sure another SM player will often be using Predators :)

[minigun762]

Well thats the case in playing anyone who uses your same codex. Us poor Chaos Marines only have like 1-2 viable builds so every game you can expect to basically be playing a mirro image of your own army.

 

I personally like the idea of a few Land Raiders moving up supported by Whirlwinds in the back and Speeders along the side. Add in a Dreadnought or two who are walking behind the Raider (and therefore totally covered) and you have a very flexible army that can move/shoot and assault.

[Ming]

I experiment with different builds to get the most firepower for the points. All the more important in today's horde metagame.

 

Example - lascannons are for tac squads, not for devs. Devs are for MLs and HBs. Razorbacks are great places for added firepower over rhinos.

 

Squeezing every amount of power into every point is important.

 

Organize your efficiencies around your play style. Buy units that fit your likely playstyle.

 

Right now, for example, I'm experimenting with army lists that are not mechanized, but pod driven. I have to find ways to bring in much more firepower that is good from the time you deploy pods on turn 1, to when the reinforcements deep strike later in the game.

 

My mech lists always want to use las-plas squads in rhinos, TLLC razorbacks for command, las preds for support, and such. Lots of fun.

 

The next units I purchase may be another predator, twin ironclad dreads, more pods, but the unit I wish I had the most for the past year is a thunderfire.

[Warprat]

The problem with Land Raiders is that for a 1500 pt list, one is not enough, and two is too much. Larely I have been experimenting with a combination drop pod mech list, which is where I believe the answer lies. Problem with that is you need pods in odd amounts, so either one or three. One may be too little, while three may be too much, a delicate ballence.

 

 

Here is my best attempt so far, but it came in at 2000 pts...

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=196202

 

 

 

I wish it were a little more long rangey, but that is fairly hard to get points wise and still remain mobile.

 

Warprat ;)

[minigun762]

The problem with Land Raiders is that for a 1500 pt list, one is not enough, and two is too much.

 

Warprat :D

 

I think a potential workaround for that is not to shove assault specialists in your Land Raiders (like TH/SS Terminators). Instead put a Tac Squad or Scouts in there, so the unit counts as scoring.

 

10 man Tac Squad with Flamer, Multi-Melta and Power Fist is only 195 points and should be durable enough to hold an objective or support an assault.

[Warprat]

The problem with Land Raiders is that for a 1500 pt list, one is not enough, and two is too much.

 

Warprat ;)

 

I think a potential workaround for that is not to shove assault specialists in your Land Raiders (like TH/SS Terminators). Instead put a Tac Squad or Scouts in there, so the unit counts as scoring.

 

10 man Tac Squad with Flamer, Multi-Melta and Power Fist is only 195 points and should be durable enough to hold an objective or support an assault.

 

 

I can see that with Chaos SM as being a solid choice, less so for Codex Astartes however. Rhinos/Razorbacks are just so cheap and effective, that planning to use the Land Raider as a ride for a specific troop just hardly seems worth it. I could see it running a Tac or Scout squad with the Kantor booster bubble though.

 

Another option I have thought of is to simply run it empty and pick up stranded Rhino units that lose thier ride. In this role, it could put the Tac squad into CC (with the surviving Rhinos,) taking advantage of the ramp.

[minigun762]

I'll agree its not an optimal use of the squad or the Raider but I wonder if its something you can base an army off of.

To use it correctly, it would be less about rushing the Raider forward to assault something and instead playing more in a "water warrior" style with movement, shooting and counter assaulting depending on the situation at hand.

 

I'm not willing to go out on a limb and say its a truly competitive build but my gut says that in the right hands, it might have potential.

[waaanial00]

To be honest this sounds like you want something like my 1500 point list (See battle report here)

 

It focuses on stopping the enemy tanks in the first 2 turns, whilst challenging a surprising amount of infantry as well, then moves up to put an intense amount of pressure with the tacticals and Sternguard in rapid fire range. The beauty is that given most of my heavy weapons are Dreadnought or Landspeeder based, you can move 6" and still fire. Ok the list cannot really deal with multi landraiders that well however I dont think any Marine list can particularly do that from range, what it will do against those lists is kill most of the supporting units which rely on the landraider soaking up anti armour shots then allow time to kill the contents of the Raider through dint of extreame quantity of shots.

 

Still I suppose its up to you. The one time that this list has really failed me is when there was a single piece of terrain in the middle of the table which seemed to be cursed by Tzeench, it saved far more vehicle damage rolls than it should have and meant that neither me nor my opponent was able to really destroy anything at range. At this point his mainly Khorne and Nurgle plague marines had the massive advantage being both better at assault and more survivable. Still I killed more of his army with this list than any other one I have made so far (including the TH/SS list)

 

Wan

[Anerythristic]

Wan,

 

I really like that list.