Stabbin' and such: Triumphant at Last! 2/9/17

[Firepower]

I was thinking more like really really tiny cake and ice cream.  Well, I call it "thinking," at least.

[Firepower]

Another game, another loss.  Real bad this time.  Guard again, but horde rather than tanks.  I was betrayed by the dice constantly, and made one rather significant error.

 

'Sentinels,' I thought, 'those look rather fragile.  I'll drop my Ironclad beside them, stomp through, and get to the juicy heavy weapons hiding behind them.'

 

First, Sentinels are, much to my surprise, absolute tarpits with 6 wounds each.  Second, they have autocannons.  He makes the charge, gets overwatched hard, smashes one, and gets obliterated the next turn when they fall back and every gun in the zip code unleashes hell.  The other Ironclad fails the charge and gets turned to slag by 5 meltas on turn 1.  

 

Beyond that it was a lot of failed charges and utterly pitiful armor saves.  I never missed the templates as badly as I did today.  50 guardsmen out in the open, all bunched up, and two vindicators that evidently can't hit the broadside of a bloody planet.  

 

Basically the only real damage I managed was with the LRC's shooting.  Everything else was just one miserable failure after another.

 

I need those Templar dice!  The ones at my local GW are bubbling with heresy and spite.

 

As for the Vindis, if I can find better tank hunting gear somewhere in my piles of gray plastic, they're gone.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Firepower

[Medjugorje]

its a kind of sad,... but in our book we are stronger with long ranged weapon... beside we playing our crusader squads with Melta, Combimelta and LasCan.

 

Imperium: Patrol Detachment - 752 Punkte
***************  2 Standard  *************** 
Crusader Squad
5 Initiates
- 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol
- Meltagun
- Power axe
+ Sword Brother
   - 1 x Power axe
   - 1 x Combi-melta - - - > 111 Punkte

Crusader Squad
5 Initiates
- 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol
- Meltagun
- Power axe
+ Sword Brother
   - 1 x Power axe
   - 1 x Combi-melta - - - > 111 Punkte
***************  1 Elite  *************** 
Ironclad Dreadnought
- Dreadnought chainfist
- Hurricane bolter
- Meltagun
- 2 x Hunter-killer missile
- 1 x Assault launchers - - - > 219 Punkte
***************  1 Flieger  *************** 
Stormraven Gunship
- Twin assault cannon
- Twin multi-melta
- 2 Hurricane bolters - - - > 311 Punkte


2 shots Multimelta and then 5 melta. If you have a castellan and Helbrecht they doing great work. And its pretty much Templar style i think.

 

[Acebaur]

Sounds like you were betrayed by dice more than anything else, those days happen. Nothing to do but continue the crusade!

[Jacques Corbin]

You put that Stormraven together yet?

[Firepower]

Sealed away in the Armorium works a solitary soul, preparing the Crusade for war with rituals and work unknown to those outside the locked bulkheads.  From outside the heavy doors, the dull bang of hammers, roars of inventive profanity, and the occasional explosion can be heard, while on the outside, an attending servo skull can be heard politely telling a visiting Raven to go away and leave its master to his work, using a generous but equally polite application of electric shocks and headbutting.

[Jacques Corbin]

Nevermore

[Firepower]

I haven't got the energy to write a fluff blurb for these fellas. Now I gotta get knuckle deep in some heresy and finish a Tessaract Vault for a commission. I'll take a paddlin' for the money.

All backpacks and arms are magnetized. I need to paint up some Jump Packs, but that can wait til after I complete my contract. None of the scripture has been filled in for the same reason

Castellan

Sword Brethren group 1

Sword Brethren group 2

Sword Brethren group 3

Sword Brethren group 4

[Bjorn Firewalker]

A fine-looking army.

[Marshal Reinhard]

This very clean, simple way of implementating SB bling makes me question my own gaudy approach

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Nice, i also use good Bp And cs, for my army. It looks nice And in fluff wise it refers to geonide crusade.

 

Nice clear models indeed:)

[Firepower]

This very clean, simple way of implementating SB bling makes me question my own gaudy approach

 

I spent a lot of time pondering just how much gold to use.  In the end I basically just went with the style of the Sword Brothers on the box.  Although, I set a loose rule for myself to keep things balanced, making (almost) all skulls bone and (almost) all other decorations like wreaths gold.

[Firepower]

Had my first 8th edition win today!

Took on an Ultramarines list at 2k points with this:

Helbrecht

Lieutenant with Teeth of Terra, Storm Bolter, Jump Pack

2 Crusader squads, 5 Marines 5 Neophytes, Sword+Storm Bolter, Ax, Plasma

Crusader squad, 5 Marines 5 Neophytes, Fist+Storm Bolter, Ax, Melta

Land Raider Crusader with all the fixin's

3 Rhinos with HK Missles and 1 Storm Bolter

Vanguard detachment:

Emperor's Champion

2 Ironclads with Hurricanes, Frags, 2 HK Missiles, H Flamer, one with Chainfist and one with Hammer. Pods for both

Vanguard Veterans, 5 guys with Lightning Claws. They rode with Helbrecht and the Champion in the LRC.

My opponent took Calgar with Honor Guard, a Tactical Squad, dakka Centurions, a Laser Rapier, an Ironclad, a Devastator Squad with 4 Lascannons, Tartoros Terminators, a repulsor with Intercessors, and a Primaris standard bearer.

Most importantly, I brought my Templar dice for their first game, and they were truly blessed

It was just a deathmatch, no objectives or anything beyond killing each other.

Fun moments include the LRC, down to 6 wounds, rolling a 6+ save against the Rapier's inevitably lethal shot. Also, a Crusader Squad and Helbrecht blasting Calgar off the map, and the Chainfist Ironclad punching the Repulsor into dust. He hid his Devastators in a tall building that I had no chance of reaching, but one Crusader squad killed 3 in a single round of shooting, and the other two disappeared after an unlucky Leadership role. But this part was so fun that I just had to take a photo:

His squad wiped out, left standing alone against Calgar and his guard, as well as most of a Tactical squad...makes his 6+ leadership role (again, praise be to the Templar dice!). A truly plucky Sword Brother, whom immediately ran away so the nearby Lieutenant and Ironclad could blast the Tacticals into paste

My one regret is, ironically, shooting Calgar off the board. I so wanted to dual him with the Emperor's Champion, and he was within a reasonable charge distance, but my guns were a bit too zealous in the end. When my opponent conceded, I had the LRC with a few wounds left, Helbrecht, the Emperor's Champion and a full crusader squad without so much as a scratch, and a few rhinos. All he had were 2 Dakka Centurions and the Terminators.

Really, he made very few mistakes, and I made many out of confusion, but the Templar dice served in the name of the Emperor, while his were clearly tainted by the fickle whims of Chaos. I'm a bit annoyed how, unsurprisingly, my Crusaders did very little in melee, while shooting did all the heavy lifting. There's a reason my current queue is full of elite smashy stabbies like Terminators

Edited February 10, 2018 by Firepower

[Honda]

First off, congratulations on the win. You were long overdue.

 

Something I noticed you had in your list, that I've changed in mine because of 8th. Your crusader squads still have a healthy sprinkling of neophytes in your squads. I have since dropped them from mine, for the most part.

 

Reasoning: They die easier than Initiates, and in some cases can make you more vulnerable to leadership tests. In your game, did you experience this phenomenon since it sounds like your crusader squads took some hits?

 

Cheers,

[Firepower]

Well, as ever, Neophytes are a matter of saving points.  Every three neophytes is one Hunter Killer missile.  Those things are currently my main ranged AT weapons, and they actually performed admirably tonight, so that's vindicating

 

I lost 2 our of 3 Crusader squads through the course of the game, with the third untouched by the time my opponent conceded.  One got shredded because I charged into heroic intervention range of the Honor Guard, with Calgar bringing up the rear, although the damage they did to the Tactical squad was rather paltry at best.  That plucky Sword Brother lost almost his entire squad in one turn. 

 

The second squad lasted quite a while, gradually dying in a punch up with what survived of the Intercessors after their transport exploded.  It was a rather even melee all around.  But if the Repulsor decided to shoot them instead of the Ironclad and LRC, they would've been wiped out just as quickly, and the Dev Centurions were equally distracted.  Just goes to show you that the IronPods still do their job well

 

Really, almost all the heavy lifting was done by the two Ironclads and the LRC, come to think of it.  The one crucial exception was the squad that shot the Devastator squad, which really was a game changer, so kudos to those boys.  Helbrecht and the Champion never even got a chance to fight, though Helbrecht's reroll aura is the reason I was able to blast Calgar off the table in the shooting phase.  The Ironclads both shrugged off some serious threats, but the LRC was down right blessed when it came to saves.

 

Anyway, I would argue that Neophytes are not the optimal choice for a 10 man Rhino squad if you can spare the points.  They may fight with the same stats, but that armor save can be crucial at times.  They're obviously necessary for bigger squads, and in those instances, if they aren't riding in an LRC or Raven I would take either a Standard or Cenobytes (or both) to mitigate Leadership issues.  That said, with the blessings of the Emperor on my dice, I never lost a model to Leadership.  An overcharged plasma, yes, but never Leadership ;D

 

As an aside, I've decided to abandon the back-up power weapon approach.  One swing with a maul or ax doesn't accomplish much of anything, now that you can't add extra attacks through charging, a pistol, etc.  It's obviously more expensive by a wide margin, but I currently have a gaggle of Grav Cannons and Lascannons in my grey plastic queue to replace those mauls and axes.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Firepower

[DarkCrusader93]

Congratulations on the victory brother! Perhaps in celebration of your victory a crusade should be launched against those filthy heretics the ultra marines?

 

I couldn't help but notice you use an almost entirely close combat list besides the LRC. I was curious how that's been working out for you? I've had little luck running pure combat lists, and find myself having to use ven dreads or shooty crusader squads to make sure my combat units make it.

 

The other strategy I've found myself having to use is two five man vanguard vet squads in a LRC with Helbrecth, Grimaldus and the Emperor's Champion.

 

Is it just me or does combat this edition seem to be lacking when it comes to the Templars? I've seen blood angels and even those traitors the chaos space marines do so much better and it's rather disheartening.

[Firepower]

Angels and Chaos are both indisputably better at melee than we are.  We are a melee Chapter in a shooty codex.  I don't begrudge the Angels, mind you.  They've always been the premiere melee experts of the Imperium.  It's just that our flavor of melee specialty, namely weight of dice, doesn't exist anymore thanks to changes in how melee works.

 

In short, my stabby Crusaders do not perform well.  But that's all I've ever built, barring 6 Bolter Initiates, and I'm the stubborn sort, so stabby they shall stay!

 

If you want to perform well in melee, you have to take our heavy hitters: Dreadnoughts, Vanguard, and Terminators.  Our Chapter Tactic helps us get into melee, which is nice, but it doesn't help us once we're there.  Our special characters are the closest thing we have to our old buffs, so I rarely build a list without Helbrecht, or at a bare minimum Grimaldus, and the Champion if I have a detachment in need of another HQ.  Popping Helbrecht out of the LRC and then re-rolling all of its shots in that shooting phase is ruthless.  Partnering him with a Lieutenant is borderline cruelty.

 

As an aside, I'm looking to other units to handle the shooting.  Thunderfires are particularly intriguing.  Hordes are the current bane of 8th edition, so guns like the Thunderfire help there, and the Stratagem is handy against melee armies too, when it stops a dangerous unit in its tracks.  In a pinch, you can use it to prevent a unit from reaching an objective as well.  I bought the Kromlech equivalents (which I wouldn't exactly recommend, as the sculpts varied wildly in quality) and talked with my local GW manager about whether or not I can bring them.  He goes with the "50% GW model" rule of thumb, so now I just have to find enough GW bling to slap on the buggers.  I'm coming up a bit short at the moment, as I tear through my many bitz bins.

 

And as I said, I'm done with the 'back up' power weapons in Crusader Squads, and building heavy weapons to replace them so they have at least a little bit of shooting potential.

 

As for the Vanguard, I've come to the conclusion that at least a few shields are a must.  All 5 of mine got obliterated twice over after taking out the Rapier when just 2 nearby Dakka Centurions got their chance for payback.  I still need to paint up a bunch of Jump Packs as well.  I didn't magnetize all those Sword Brothers just so I could watch them spin around every time I pick of the models. :P

Edited February 10, 2018 by Firepower

[Schlitzaf]

Firepower, as an aside back up PowerWeapons should really only be used in Tide Squads. Simply because Tide Squads should be advancing every turn and in combat almost every turn, turn 2 onward. And second thing, when you roll your power weapon attacks do you roll them 2 for SB then 1, or roll all 3 togethor? I do the latter.

 

It shouldn’t change the math, but it feels like it does. And once you lose backup PW, and start rolling only two dice, you see why the third one matters. Second, Rhino Squads should be 6-4 or 7-3 imho. Also word of advice, vs shots with no AP take in on your Inits. Then shots with AP -1/-2 on your Neo’s. Simply because you want to keep 3+ for -3 AP and 0 AP. You’ll find that mitigates Neo’s 4+ Sv.

 

Third, Heavy Bolter would be my good to replacement. 10 Points is nice and cheap. You can move and still reasonably hit things. Otherwise congratulations!

[Honda]

As for the Vanguard, I've come to the conclusion that at least a few shields are a must.  All 5 of mine got obliterated twice over after taking out the Rapier when just 2 nearby Dakka Centurions got their chance for payback.

 

 

I've noticed this as well in a lot of video batreps. Tha Vanguards hit pretty hard, but 5 man squads don't seem to be very resilient. I've developed the habit from Apoc of always fielding 10 squads out of general principle. I'm sure that isn't tourney optimized, but it does see squads and important components stay around longer for me.

 

I can see both sides of the argument and I think we should continue our "research". :)

[DarkCrusader93]

Angels and Chaos are both indisputably better at melee than we are.  We are a melee Chapter in a shooty codex.  I don't begrudge the Angels, mind you.  They've always been the premiere melee experts of the Imperium.  It's just that our flavor of melee specialty, namely weight of dice, doesn't exist anymore thanks to changes in how melee works.

 

In short, my stabby Crusaders do not perform well.  But that's all I've ever built, barring 6 Bolter Initiates, and I'm the stubborn sort, so stabby they shall stay!

 

If you want to perform well in melee, you have to take our heavy hitters: Dreadnoughts, Vanguard, and Terminators.  Our Chapter Tactic helps us get into melee, which is nice, but it doesn't help us once we're there.  Our special characters are the closest thing we have to our old buffs, so I rarely build a list without Helbrecht, or at a bare minimum Grimaldus, and the Champion if I have a detachment in need of another HQ.  Popping Helbrecht out of the LRC and then re-rolling all of its shots in that shooting phase is ruthless.  Partnering him with a Lieutenant is borderline cruelty.

 

And as I said, I'm done with the 'back up' power weapons in Crusader Squads, and building heavy weapons to replace them so they have at least a little bit of shooting potential.

 

As for the Vanguard, I've come to the conclusion that at least a few shields are a must.  All 5 of mine got obliterated twice over after taking out the Rapier when just 2 nearby Dakka Centurions got their chance for payback.  I still need to paint up a bunch of Jump Packs as well.  I didn't magnetize all those Sword Brothers just so I could watch them spin around every time I pick of the models.

 

I agree that we are a melee army in a shooty dex and it really sucks, i really wish we had our own dex again but i doubt it would ever happen and if it did i have a sinking feeling that it'd be bad like really bad. I don't begrudge the Angels either honestly. i see your point on the weight of dice conundrum however i wouldn't say it doesn't exist you would just have to bend to the rules of 8th. a ten man crusader squad all armed with chain swords with Helbrecht, Grimaldus, and a lieutenant near them if it got into combat at 100% would dish out 21 attacks rerolling all failed hits and failed wounds rolls of one and every hit on a 6 generates another attack plus that +1 strength goodness then you can use honour the chapter stratagem spending 3CP to attack again most things you throw them at would be dead how ever its a gamble.

 

i've started to use shooty crusaders and unfortunately devastators more i dislike using them as it doesn't suit the theme but i feel forced to use them to whittle down the enemy shooty units.

 

I have had to take at least two vanguard squads and up to two dreadnoughts and maybe one ironclad in most of my lists. i don't take terminators at the moment because i don't feel the look of them suits the theme of my army they need holy tabards... i do agree about the character buffs being the closest to our old rules but they are glorious buffs i never thought about the buffs being used on the LRC now i have images of a gun line of LRC's with Helbrecht behind them...

 

i really wish we had the option to replace the special and heavy weapon for a PW so we could have a total of three PW in crusader squads or a heavy and a PW..

 

i run all my vanguard vets with storm shields it looks awesome and it really keeps them alive during the charge!