Battle Report- First Game vs New Blood Angels

[Iago]

Last night I had my first game against the new blood angels. My friend just got his hands on the new book. He has been a Blood Angel Player since the dawn of second edition but had put them on the shelf after the fiasco of the pdf codex. He has been building a few things because of the rumours and he just wanted to kitbash a list together for us to play. So, we decided on 2K points, he decided to take this list:

 

Astorath the Grim

Reclusiarch chaplain.

 

Honour Guard with Sanguinary Adept and powerfist

 

2x 10 man assault squads with dual meltagun no packs in drop pods.

6 man death company squad in rhino with thunderhammer. (reclusiarch went here)

1 deathcompany furioso dreadnough in drop pod. Blood Talons

 

1 Furioso Dreadnought with drop pod, blood talons

1 Librarian Dreanought with Jum ppack, blod lance and drop pod

 

2 dreadnoughts with assault cannons.

 

 

Anyway. I did take pictures of the game and will be posting up a battlereport soon. A few pointers tho when playing blood angels. Blood talons are -dirty, dirty, dirty- the potential of a whole assault terminator sword brethren squad with furious charge in one model... The death company one is even nastier with 5 A on the charge! This quickly turned into 12 wounds on my 6 man lasplas squad... :rolleyes:

 

Astorath the Grim is quite a good character/ elite killer. I send both my Marshal, and EC against him, and they both bit the dust, partially because I did not know his special rules, his axe is like a null field, but also because since it was his first game we just went for the fun factor of the game and cared little for tactical consideration. You will notice this even in the way that I deployed and moved around.

 

Fast Rhinos are great! 18" move is just awesome. Return of the rhino rush?/... hehe.

 

The craziest thing is that this list that was just kitbashed together really made an impression on the Templars... and some of the nastier units were not used, like sanguinary priest spam..

 

Anyone had any experience with this? Later on today I will be seeing a more well though out Blood Angels army take on Ghazgulls orks...

 

Cheers! Batrep will soon follow as soon as I have all the pics up and all.

[marine77]

I played a game versus a list with:

 

Seth

Librarian with bloodlance and the S10 power

 

15 man death company squad with two fists in an LRC(Seth here)

 

9 man jump marines with melta and fist (sanguinary priest)

10 man jump marines with melta and fist (sanguinary priest)

 

2 Baal Predators with flamer cannon on top

1 tris las

 

The death company squad was a beast! Due to some terrible armor saves, I lost 4 out of five assault terminators to non-rending assault cannon and hurricane bolter shots. Without them, I didn't have much that could handle the death company reliably, though I did get them down to one man and killed Seth. The predators were crap in my opinion without the assault cannons on top. The sanguinary priests are amazingly good and made the jump squads pretty tough.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I am off this morning to get C:BA :D

 

One thing has to be said, and it is certainly not sour grapes, Blood Angels are OP²

 

Lets just go through a check list;

 

Baals as Fast Attack = op

Being able to field 6 Preds because of that = op

Fast everything = op

Deep-striking Land raiders = op

Extra killy Dreadnoughts that put Ironclads to shame = op

FNP on marines that can cover distance quickly = op

Flying thing that drops of dreads and squads = op

Dreads with Librarian powers and fleet = op

 

And that is just what BoLS has previewed to us. :rolleyes:

 

Unless the BA are appropriately extra expensive, which I don't think has happened, they are about as balanced as your Grandmother mogul skiing past angry bears with laser beams attached to their heads, after she has fasted for a week.

 

I don't begrudge the players themselves, it comes from further up the stream.

Anyway, it's a good day to be a BA player. :woot:

Say your prayers for the BT codex :lol:

 

We'll just have to get used to our W-T-L record getting a few more in the L column :sweat:

[Firepower]

One thing we have that the BA don't: HEART! Ya gotta have Heart! And if the BA did get a heart, they'll inevitably eat it, crazy nutters.

 

Besides that, yeah, what I've heard is a bit on the sphincter loosening side of the scale.

[BigDunc]

as balanced as your Grandmother mogul skiing past angry bears with laser beams attached to their heads

Great visual! :lol:

 

sphincter loosening

Happens every codex. Their weakness will be found.

[Brother Vader]

There's a really funny thread on the BA forum about how OP it is.

Happens every codex. Their weakness will be found.

Seconded. It's been this way since 2nd ed.

[marine77]

To counter what Wilhelm said.

1) I think things really are appropriately pointed, but the Baal predators have a very short range and can be popped fairly easily from the side or rear.

2) Deepstriking Landraiders sounds nasty, but they are BIG tanks, Let them hit one of my units and roll on the mishap table. Fine by me.

3) I think the thunderhawks or whatever they are are going to be too costly and they currently don't have a model, so good luck on that one.

4) Outflanking tanks aren't all that great when they have short range and you roll poorly for table edge.

 

To agree with Wilhelm:

1) FNP can find itself in the majority of the army with sanguinary priests and death company. That sucks.

2) Death Company- Fearless, Relentless, FNP, Black Rage, 2 attacks apiece, can have jump packs and you can take a squad of up to 30 models! My opponent put a unit of 15 in a LRC with Seth. It was nasty, just plain nasty. Look for similiar setups as this unit is a huge points denial unit.

3) I hear the dreads are nasty, especially the death company ones. The librarian one has psychic powers and a force weapon.

 

There are highs and lows to the army. In my particular game, I think I lost my answer to the death company because I made some terrible saves on my assault terminators. Otherwise, I think I could have taken the unit on with ease.

[Smirnov]

1 Librarian Dreanought with Jum ppack, blod lance and drop pod

This is not even Sparta... That's unbelievable!

[Chaplain ChonkE]

It is very believable! Proxied 3 games yesterday with the new Dex versus 2 builds. Mostly it was versus a Astorath, second Chappy, Gunship, 2 LRC, 2x14 man DC, DC Dread w/ Claws and 8 man Scout. This was a very difficult army to counter for BT! Played a Jump-army as well and was creamed. Of course had the birthing pains of playing a new Codex but it was fun; that being said this doesnt seem to have as well balanced a feel as the recent C:SW.

 

1: Watch out for that DC Dread and the gunship. Do NOT let it be freely mobile or you are one unhappy camper.

2: Assault Terminators are not a viable counter for DC unless you feed them a sacrificial unit to soak up their charge first. Even Assault Terminators on the charge cant clear a large DC block easily, but they will also tar-pit your unit, and then it becomes a matter of who gets lucky first. Still, they dont tear through w/o Rending but the weight of attacks is gnarly.

3: VERY fast light mechanized rush. Reminded me of 2nd edition BAs. Very cool, very nostalgic!

4: Much more powerful than Space Wolves codex IMO. Crazy powerful ICs, even the less expensive ones! Furious Charge :D

5: Our mechanized units have trouble keeping up!

6: Scouts can be nasty close combat opponents with the Thirst, killed quite a few Crusaders in assault.

7: Take Land Speeders for Anti-tank. Your Attack Bikers are useless against that much speed. It is almost impossible to hide them from assault and still be able to fire effectively. Perhaps playing against a Rhino oriented army might change my thoughts on this.

 

I'll be honest in saying I had alot more luck fighting the Deepstriking list than when my friend rolled out his Jump-army. They were like Templars who didnt suffer semi-horrific Fall Back options and were much faster on foot and in vehicles. A much easier army for the BT to counter but he tabled me fairly quickly with these guys. I think these types of lists are going to be very difficult to deal, especially given the nature of the AT-weapon craze people are going through.

 

@Marine77. The Dread can reembark onto the Gunship. Fleet Dread. Lots of attacks. Bad news. AV12 all around is decent enough, especially when the Dread killed most of your squad. Thats not even throwing the scouts in the mix reaping thirst sometimes or alot of the time with Astaroth. Did I mention Assault, Fleet, Reembark?

Also Baal Predators might have short range but the majority of AT weapons that BTs are able to take are of the shorter ranged variety. Also platforms that do carry Las-Cannons such as the Min/Max squad, the Tri-Las and normal LR are fairly controversial units in terms of performance in the eyes of many players on this board (I like the Las sponson/AC Pred myself) and the AT units from our Fast Attack options are very vulnerable to assault from BAs, and also need to get fairly close to make use of their weaponry. That Baal is pretty quick by the way.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

To counter what Wilhelm said.

1) I think things really are appropriately pointed, but the Baal predators have a very short range and can be popped fairly easily from the side or rear.

2) Deepstriking Landraiders sounds nasty, but they are BIG tanks, Let them hit one of my units and roll on the mishap table. Fine by me.

3) I think the thunderhawks or whatever they are are going to be too costly and they currently don't have a model, so good luck on that one.

4) Outflanking tanks aren't all that great when they have short range and you roll poorly for table edge.

 

To agree with Wilhelm:

1) FNP can find itself in the majority of the army with sanguinary priests and death company. That sucks.

2) Death Company- Fearless, Relentless, FNP, Black Rage, 2 attacks apiece, can have jump packs and you can take a squad of up to 30 models! My opponent put a unit of 15 in a LRC with Seth. It was nasty, just plain nasty. Look for similiar setups as this unit is a huge points denial unit.

3) I hear the dreads are nasty, especially the death company ones. The librarian one has psychic powers and a force weapon.

There are highs and lows to the army. In my particular game, I think I lost my answer to the death company because I made some terrible saves on my assault terminators. Otherwise, I think I could have taken the unit on with ease.

 

*With move 6" and still being able to fire all three guns, they are no shorter ranged than Vindis ~ 30" threat bubble (who are short ranged - but I am happy to roll them into the fray) if equipped with HB sponsons, he can move 6" and fire from 36" away~ 42" threat bubble.

If deployed, they also have the scout move ~ 18". Sure he can't snipe you like a Dakka Pred can from within your deployment zone, but he can bring all of his guns to bear from T1.

 

If the BA player rolls the result that he is far away from the foe, he fast-moves 18". Next turn he can strike anything in the middle of the table.

If he rolls the other two results (66%) he'll be coming in from the side you are closest to, hitting PredEq in the side armour and is now forcing you to deal with two fronts.

Check out Jawa's blog. You'll see how he used this unit to win many games from the fairly poor C:pdf (as I like to call it :lol: )

 

*The DS LRC can 'in effect' flank you. The Raider is no more susceptible to being taken out than our oft used Pod Dreads or Speeders. He has cut down on the amount of turns you have to shoot it, cuts down on your ability to be able to react to it and can put it where he wants ~ super flexibility!

After he drops it on you, then you have to scramble like a mad man to deal with 500 pts that appeared from thin air!

This has got to be even harder to deal with than the regular Raider method, yes?

 

*The Storm Raven can zoom around with a Dread and 12 marines, at 24". It is an assault vehicle, just like Raiders are. Move 12 deploy 2.99 (dread has bigger base too!) move 6 assault 6 = 26.99".... from a Dreadnought....

 

 

2: Assault Terminators are not a viable counter for DC unless you feed them a sacrificial unit to soak up their charge first. Even Assault Terminators on the charge cant clear a large DC block easily, but they will also tar-pit your unit, and then it becomes a matter of who gets lucky first. Still, they dont tear through w/o Rending but the weight of attacks is gnarly.

4: Much more powerful than Space Wolves codex IMO. Crazy powerful ICs, even the less expensive ones! Furious Charge :o

7: Take Land Speeders for Anti-tank. Your Attack Bikers are useless against that much speed. It is almost impossible to hide them from assault and still be able to fire effectively. Perhaps playing against a Rhino oriented army might change my thoughts on this.

 

2] Our 5 Assault Terms w/FC will kill 13 on the charge

20 a, 15 h, 13.35 w => dead,

So they need to be deployed from a LRC to get that charge (I think our Terminators should always use a vehicle, unless your army is all Foot)

 

6 will kill 16. 258 pts v some 320 pts. Killed in one turn. That is phenomenal!

 

4] Totally. SW got a good deal. BA got a great deal. Fingers crossed for MW to write C:BT eh? ;)

 

If you'd taken rhinos, he would not be able to launch JP assaults on you until he'd dug you out from the Rhino. If his JP have to melta pistol you out, then deploy on the other side of the rhino, then he can't assault you ^_^

Then you volley and assault him next turn :wink:

 

"oh dear, you've blown up 58 pts of rhino. Shame that you'd have easily killed 4 Initiates with your Furious Charge had I been on foot.... "

 

We really need to mech up to stop a faster army from assaulting us when they want to. It is bad enough that they always get to choose when and where to volley and charge us, let alone them using Furious charge on us.

 

If your BA foe is soo keen on mass DC and JPers, give him what he is asking, pleading, begging and aching for.... a 5" s10 template. All gone, bye bye. :cry:

That means Melta is extra crucial for us - 2 Raiders and a Raven, ouch!

Bring those melta weapons chaps! All you need is an Immobilised or destroyed and those juicy, juicy squads of expensive Marines are ready to be Demolished :woot:

 

MELTA vs AV 14; 4/6 x pen(21/36 x 4/6) + glance(5/36 x 2/6) = 336 + 40 ~ 376/1296 or 29% per MELTA shot. Not bad :)

[gcsmith]

After watching my friends BA play orks i feel sorry for BA they can take good things but they are kinda easy to kill, but this could be my friends lack of experience

[Messanger of Death]

Everything is OP until people get used to the new codex. However, I will say this... even a sub-par Blood Angels list will be a dangerous list to play against. Simply because they can still bring the necessary tools to have a balanced list. This will have the horrible effect of exposing weaknesses in lists from the older codices (like our own 4th Edition Codex).

 

The fact that Blood Angels and Space Wolves can build competitive lists WITHOUT transport is a good sign for Templars... the Black Tide may return in our 5th Codex.

 

Messanger

 

Edit - also although Death Company are dangerous they cost an arm and a leg... the jump pack alone costs a Neophyte and a half. They suffer from rage however keep in mind that the wording of the rules have been slightly changed. Although they have to move towards the nearest visible enemy unit they can assault any unit they want. So although we can pull them away from our main force with an empty Rhino or Land Speeder they can still assault something else IF it is in range.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Wilhelm, the Assault Terminators killed quite a few DC but not many as I would have liked, and when the IC started to whistle the Litanies of Vampire-Romance and Hairgel using only his Power Weapon my squad was worried. Then they were dead.

 

edit: that being said, their troops arent all that, it is the gadgets and ICs! very potent, with few counters short of a vindicator or Thammer. Surviving to get those shots/hits off is the problem

[Brother Loring]

I played a couple of games against a friends new BA army yesterday.

 

Few points

 

- Mephiston does not like Assault termies. He took down a rhino and two termies in two games - sweeet!

 

- Although the lightning claw things on the dread can be nasty, I really don't think they are so bad. He was rolling pretty badly, but in three rounds of combat he took down 1 neophyte and 2 initiates (one of whom was the result of a 'fearless' save).

 

- Fast vehicles are a pain in the ass. They are just far too manouverable.

 

But, I would agree with MoD's sentiments. Everything seems over-powered at first, but the hype will die down. I think a truly competitive BA build will be tough to achieve because so many of their choices are so expensive.

 

What did make me laugh is that when I said I hope/think BT will get assault ramps on rhinos and/or drop pods, he said he was disappointed that BA didn't get them. As if some brand new crazy AV12, resistant to melta, fast, dread-carrying assault vehicle wasn't enough! Ungrateful!

[Liberame]

when you were saying his rhinos were too manouverable, was he just moving them 12" or 18"?

 

If 18" why not pop em so the units inside are destroyed since they cant disembark for moving flat out?

[Iago]

- only fast 'skimmers' are destroyed when immobilized and moving "flat out". and there is nothing in the rules that makes passengers die, they just take damage as usual if the tank explodes... if it is wrecked then just a pin test.

 

---------------- Getting the pictures up soon.

 

@ Loring: The dread claws are really- really nasty. With a good roll I have seen them take out entire units of bikes, and marines with no swings in return (thats 10-12 wounds.) I would let them charge me at my own peril... because they are only str 6 tho... a dread is the perfect counter to that dread.

[Iago]

- Note all drop pods are Blood angels.

 

So this is the table we played on:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/MarshalAugustine/Bat%20Reps/vsNewBA/DSCN0921.jpg

 

Table quarters and kill points, oh goody!. The BA decide to go first, in the spirit of the game I deploy stuff and he drops all around me! Shooting for turn one and two was like it never happened... nothing died. Get into close combat everyone cried!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/MarshalAugustine/Bat%20Reps/vsNewBA/DSCN0922.jpg

 

Things looked grim for the templars, as they surged forward on turn 1 and failed to do any significant damage to the blood angels, also loosing the Marshal to 3 failed invuls (out of 3) from The uber chappy.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/MarshalAugustine/Bat%20Reps/vsNewBA/DSCN0924.jpg

 

The Blood angels seemed to have it in the bag by turn 3.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/MarshalAugustine/Bat%20Reps/vsNewBA/DSCN0927.jpg

 

Turn 4 comes around and the black templars stay in the fight! Taking over and entire flank with the arrival of a drop pod reserve unit.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/MarshalAugustine/Bat%20Reps/vsNewBA/DSCN0928.jpg

 

So I stopped taking pictures at this point, because the game got really intense in its last turns. All in all, I had a land raider left, he had 5 DC, a few assault marines with a reclusiarch and a dread (and a rhino).

 

What a bloody mess.

 

Cheers!

[Liberame]

I just read the rule book on Fast Vehicles on page 90. "Fast Transport Vehicles: Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase."

 

This is just on fast vehicles, this is before it talks about skimmers. So if you move your rhino flat out 18" and I wreck it, the unit inside can't disembark and are thus destroyed. If I explode your rhino, that is a different story.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I just read the rule book on Fast Vehicles on page 90. "Fast Transport Vehicles: Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase."

 

This is just on fast vehicles, this is before it talks about skimmers. So if you move your rhino flat out 18" and I wreck it, the unit inside can't disembark and are thus destroyed. If I explode your rhino, that is a different story.

 

They are talking about cannot embark/disembark in that movement phase. You embark/disembark in that movement phase, which cannot happen if the vehicle is going to move flat out.

 

That is just to stop people getting in or out and moving flat out.

It is nothing to do with passengers being destroyed because you happened to wreck the transport when it moved at that rate. That is clear RAI.

 

Now to get into the nitty gritty, you cannot wreck a vehicle moving flatout and have it destroy the passengers. Because they didn't move flat out in "that Movement phase" ~ how could they, it was your movement phase?!

 

Are you with me?

 

Flat out will not result in BA passengers being killed any more than if they hadn't moved flat out

[Liberame]

from all the different websites ive browsed through in regards to this pertaining to eldar, I have always been told that if you move flat out in that movement phase, then you couldnt disembark until the following movement phase. So they assumed that if you can not disembark your destroyed. Believe me, I love the idea of being able to disembark my angels if I go flat out, I just want to make sure on the ruling cause I have some WAAC friends that I play against.