Terminator armour

[chapter master 454]

Well I am kinda sad about Terminator armour because it's supposed to be the very peak of protection for marine and a great honour however I have noticed that terminator armour is useless and some simple ideas could of fixed it. I would like to ask people what they think of terminator armour and why it's redundant on HQ choices apart from the lack of relic blade option (which I can't understand, even if it did allow for single hand use of it the other weapons terminators are allowed only get the bonus attack from matched pairs which themselves have hands far too large to hold the hilt anyway). What truely makes terminator armour on captains and chapter masters useless on them?

 

(currently thinking on posting some rules on how to just tweak terminator slightly. Homegrown secton ofcourse)

[Zynk Kaladin]

I've always wanted to see a terminator carry 2 assault cannons :lol:

[Mithril hound]

Its geat for us wolves, taking it and TH/SS is cheaper than taking runic armour and TH/SS.

[Frosty the Pyro]

yeah but you wolves get kinda jiped with runic armors, just like you do with wolf claws.

 

 

On the point of terminator armor though. it gives relentless (which will help with combi weapons) and comes with a power sword and storm bolter (so you are paying 22 points for 2+ armor and deepstrike, and relentless, which means 7 points for deepstrike and relentless) So while yeah it is mostly pontless, there is a small nitch were it will be better than the equivilent artifacer armor+power weapon+combi-weapon.

[Arkios]

Its not really a bad option for an HQ that can't take artificer armour. (IE- Librarian in TDA with Storm Shield) But as far as Captains or Masters are concerned, its only useful if you want to teleport them into battle or equip them with a chain fist (I really wish you can arm a captain/master with dual chain fists! How bad-ass would that look! but too bad you cant...)

[Commander Sasha]

I've always felt that terminator armour would be a bit slower and clunkier than power or Artificer, designed for slow&purposeful rather than heroic behaviour.

A captain, with better Initiative and skill, would be hampered by it.

 

Opinion, nothing to back it up!

[Mithril hound]

we can have duel chainfists. I think we can even have a duel chainfist squad with cyclone missiles.

[chapter master 454]

we can have duel chainfists. I think we can even have a duel chainfist squad with cyclone missiles.

 

Thats because C:SM was the skeleton for all other space marine chapters who get a codex, in other words you get more and better gear than us. (I am still rather ticked about this codex creep as us marine players are slowly losing all that made us truely unique in a correct way, now we're just a base for all others to add onto).

 

And please stop say: 'we can take duel oven mitts with kitchen sink back pack' as it's getting old real fast. Yes we know you've got better selection for terminators, however I'm just glad we don't deal with silly looking TWCs.

[Justicar Valius]

Why take terminator armour when you can have that vital relic blade, hellfire rounds bolter, SS and a bike if you like. Seriously, or if you are going all out for the win you just take Vulkan.

 

The only terminator armour on an HQ I ever see is Grey Knight heros, Lysander and Belial. Seriously anyone seen any others?

[Captain Idaho]

There should be a rules based reason to take Terminator armour, as the model is iconic and imposing but the rules aren't.

 

Unfortunately, aside from teleportation there is no good in game reason to take it.

[Koremu]

Only way to get a Librarian a decent Invulnerable Save.

[Hfran Morkai]

Perhaps TDA should have rules reflecting the fact it makes someone a walking tank, then again PA makes a man a tank...

 

I took TDA on my Wolf Lord for a single reason, I wasn't quite sure of the image of a Leader being dwarfed by his retinue of most trusted warriors, it just didn't seem to sit right though I will have to model it up for my Heresy Force.

[Grey Mage]

Only way to get a Librarian a decent Invulnerable Save.

This is a good point right here.

 

Other reasons:

 

You want them to be able to deep-strike with a squad of terminators.

Its the only Bad-ass HQ model you have at the moment.

You want the wargear options that are cheaper for TDA.

Relentless. Relentless can be worth it all by itself some days.

[Xeonic]

On a Librarian or Calgar, it's worth the points for sure, on a chaplain, not so much, as you lose an attack and for the cost I'd just take cassius. On a vanilla captain I'd only take TDA if I was teleporting him in with terminators, but I can't think of any reason to do that, offhand.

 

Noted above, since you can't just buy a libby a storm shield, it's the only way to get him an invuln aside from force dome, and if you're dishing out the points for terminator armor and a 5+ invuln, you may as well take the storm shield as well to get your 3+.

[Koremu]

Noted above, since you can't just buy a libby a storm shield, it's the only way to get him an invuln aside from force dome, and if you're dishing out the points for terminator armor and a 5+ invuln, you may as well take the storm shield as well to get your 3+.

I am converting my Space Hulk Librarian to have a magnetised arm with Storm Bolter (for Space Hulk) and Storm Shield (for 40k) options.

 

I can't offhand think of any reason to Teleport a Captain or Chaplain in over just using a Librarian (Lysander with Shooty Terminators excepted)

 

Cassius basically obsoletes the Terminator Chaplain unless you're not allowed SCs, in which case it's a viable "let's pile out of a Land Raider" IC to use in the same way.

 

The Captain has easier ways of getting the same protection for cheaper and with a better weapon.

[Xeonic]

It's funny, that's exactly what I did, that model is such a fantastic sculpt, and though I can't see myself using the storm bolter often, the arm has got such nice detail that I just had to use magnets at least for display. He towers over the other termies due to his "descending stairs" pose, and really makes a nice centerpiece model for termies.

 

I always feel a little silly leading a squad of termies with a PA HQ on a normal base, it's like a monkey leading a pack of gorillas.

 

EDIT: as far as cheaper protection, since he comes standard with a 4+ invuln, all terminator armor does is give him a 2+ and teleportation, and if you're not teleporting, arti armor is plain and simple a better option. As an added bonus, he can also sweeping advance in it.

The only things you give up are relentless, which only useful when using a combi weapon or hellfire bolter(or both), and teleport, which is a little silly.

 

It does give you the option to have a deep striking, dual thunderhammering IC, but that's a little silly in and of itself.

[Koremu]

Unless, as I said, it's Lysander. Lysander makes it worthwhile because of two factors;

 

1) You can use his 4 wounds with 2+/3++ to soak a significant quantity of AP2 or better fire from many types of squad because of his Eternal Warrior

 

2) Bolter Drill

 

Bolster Defences is also handy. 3+ Cover Saves do make Shooty Terminators rather hard to get rid of.

[Xeonic]

Granted. Lysander is a different animal from a vanilla captain, though.

There is one setup for a termie captain I'd try to take advantage of his strengths:

Captain, terminator armor, melta bombs, lightning claw, combi-plas, hellfire bolts, aux. grenade launcher. - 180

 

The combi-plas with relentless is like a plasma pistol that you can double tap and then assault, then after the first volley wounds on a 2+, along with a S6 shot from the aux launcher. The lightning claw would get rerolls over the power weapon, and it's the only melee upgrade he can take that strikes at I. Since he'll be S4 with no grenades, melta bombs becomes a must.

I'd stick him with tac termies and use him to get a plasma gun command squad.

 

Honestly one of the biggest things you lose with termi armor is your grenades, ICs who can't strike at I are ICs that take extra wounds, and potentially die early.

[Muctar]

Only way to get a Librarian a decent Invulnerable Save.

Also, TDA is the only way to effectively use Vortex of Doom, on top of providing an invul.

[Arkios]

You can use Vortex from a bike effectively (possibly more effectively due to more mobility)

[chapter master 454]

You can use Vortex from a bike effectively (possibly more effectively due to more mobility)

 

The general idea is actually to use the storm shield as a fail-safe against the vortex going Pete tong. However the drive-by idea would be fun! (then again my duel-librarian list was fun, one gates around and unleashes vortex while the other with him does force dome and null zone. The unit they went with was sternguard! The tag-team saw one vindicator shell and were put back on the shelfs)

[Muctar]

You can use Vortex from a bike effectively (possibly more effectively due to more mobility)

True, but I also meant while cheaply getting an invul. My previous post was badly worded and did not convey this as I meant it. Although a bike libby with storm shield & VoD would be more costly than TDA, it would certainly be more survivable and deadly. Your opponent would have to dedicate a lot of resources to taking out the libby, or ignore it to his own detriment.

 

Either way I think that TDA is best used to upgrade a librarian in C:SM, but so are bikes and jump packs though they fill different roles in different armies.

[Giga]

Vanilla librarians can get some good use out of terminator armor. It doesn't cost too much, but it sure goes a long way toward increasing their survivability. If I had points to spare, I'd always put terminator armor on my libby. As for the rest, artificer armor every day all the way.

 

Terminator armor upgrade for HQs is like the power sword upgrade. It's a subpar, fluff-based option, rather then a real upgrade for a real HQ.

[Voltaire]

A captain adorned in Termintor armor, wielding a Thunderhammer and a Stormshield is probably one of the most dangerous footslogging captains you can make. He's equipped with the best weaponry and protection available, and will more often than not kill whatever he's attacking due to his many attacks and high WS.

Not only that by because the Astartes grenade launcher can be an add-on to your HQ's weaponry, or merely a wrist attachment so he can shoot two S6 AP4 shots, then assault due to the relentless special rule.

 

Librarians can cast VORTEX OF DOOM, then assault in the same turn if they are wearing Terminator armor. Due to relentless.

 

Useless you say? Not at all. Terminator armor is well worth its significant cost. Terminator squads will usually kill their opponents when in assault, before they even have the chance to run away, so if your problem is with their inability to eat enemys that run away, you aren't killing enough.

[Koremu]

A captain adorned in Termintor armor, wielding a Thunderhammer and a Stormshield is probably one of the most dangerous footslogging captains you can make. He's equipped with the best weaponry and protection available, and will more often than not kill whatever he's attacking due to his many attacks and high WS.

He's only got one more attack than a TH/SS Terminator, but costs almost as much as 5 of them.