Confused

[Michaelus]

OK, first of all, don't burn me down because of what I will say next.

 

Space Wolves or Blood Angels, I'm confused.

 

See, the thing is, they both sort of suit my playing style (in you face), but one is more extreme than the others. My first time playing 40K is with the Blood Angels, so I know a BIT about their strength and weakness. Space Wolves is a kinda cool, with all the wolf and all (duh..).

 

Since I'm not good with starting a topic, I'll just answer your questions one by one.

 

Cheers!

[DeepDarkSecret]

Question 1. Which army is more visually appealing to you?

Question 2. Which do you think would be easier for you to paint.

Question 3. Space Wolves.

 

Whatever wins by 2/3 is the army you should play. (Yes I know there is no answer for 3, it's my answer so it's automatically 1/3.)

[Godhead]

I have both BA and SW. I played Eldar during RT/2nd ed and quit, and when I came back in 4th ed, I wavered on a choice between SW and BA. At the time, I chose BA over SW (PDF dex was easier to get ahold of). I built up a sizable BA army, but really hated some aspects of the PDF dex, plus I really really loved SW models. So I switched. For me the ability for each and every model of my army to have a character all of its own is what I love about the wolves. Also grey hunters are AWESOME. What I do miss about the BA's though is their overall speed. The two armies play differently. I think the BA's are more, "assaulty", but I feel like the SW's shoot the assaulty stuff and assault the shooty stuff better. BA's have the ability to be a strong assault force but those guys still lose to other armies assault specialist so they can suffer if you don't have sufficient ranged support and IMO their tactical squads don't hold a candle to Grey Hunters. However, both armies have the tools to build a well balanced force that is fun to play.

[Michaelus]

Question 1. Which army is more visually appealing to you?

Question 2. Which do you think would be easier for you to paint.

Question 3. Space Wolves.

 

Whatever wins by 2/3 is the army you should play. (Yes I know there is no answer for 3, it's my answer so it's automatically 1/3.)

 

Answer 1. Red is my fave, but there's something about that blue-greyish colors... ;)

Answer 2. Painting to "tabletop quality" is no problem for me. The only problem is motivation.. :(

Answer 3. YAY! Have an ale!

 

True that both army have their own strength and weakness. Space Wolves is more balanced than BA, but BA is more specialized in what they do best (in this case, kicking xenos butt). The first thing that attracts me to 40k is the chainsword (can you believe it?). Then the Power Sword. After the new dex' is out, the Frost Blade. After i saw those Sanguinary Guards, those power glaives looks tempting.. (yea, i like swords..)

 

Blood Angels is the overall fastest power armor army (Bikers aside) and Space Wolves is the more balanced and the do it all army. Interesting.

[Spacefrisian]

You state that Sw and BA are the 2 Marines armies that are like in youre face. This makes me think you havent been long in the hobby as their is a 3rd in youre face armie.

 

Black Templars. Now that that has been handled on to the questions.

 

Answer 1: Has to be Spacewolves, paint wise and conversion wise.

Answer 2: Black Templars

Answer 3: More ale

[clanfield]

well if you have both why put your self through the mill just use both as you want to the only draw back would be slow expansion due to cash/modeling time and you stop your self going looloo ,in the end its up to you to decide if you cannt just yet well dont theres no race to win just xenos and heretics to burn ;)

[sniperhavens]

I will tell you that one dimensional armies like the Tau and the new BA are fun at first but become mundane as the only real tactic is running forward as fast as you can to get into contact. You prioratize targets and assault thats really it. The Baals give you some armor to play with but all in all it looks boring to me.

[Michaelus]

I didn't state that they are both in you face army, but I said that they both suits my playing style, one way or another. I said that BA is fast army, and SW a more balanced army compared to BA. SW with more fire support, BA with more speed. And, yeah, I just started this hobby like half year ago, and started with the army I like most: Chaos Space Marines (heretics, i know..). Mainly Khorne Zerkers, so you know what i mean..

 

Cheers!

[Wispy]

If you want something fast and quick, and don't want to lose the Space Wolves flexibility, Space Wolves have some very-fast assault elements in their cavalry and beast units. The Thunderwolf cavalry are very good at what they do, and rival the BA with the speed they can get into assault. I actually think they're better because they can oh-so-easily snatch the charge from units that need it.

 

...Personally, I think the best elements of the Space Wolves are the HQs....

[Michaelus]

@ SniperHavens

No, I wouldn't say that BA is as one dimensional as Tau. Altho when you compare BA and SW, then its clear that SW have more flexibilty. But, it doesn't mean that BA is one dimensional. You can POSSIBLY use a shooty list for BA, tho not as good as SW, and I don't think I'll get bored with hack and slashing those heretics and xenos with my Chainsword!

 

@Wispy

TWC. One of our Unit that we love and our trademark, and also one of the source for point-sink, bullet magnet, and S10 goodness. True that they can be extremely devastating and merciless, but its only one unit compared to the many in BA They rival BA in charging and durability, but their normal moving speed isn't as great as Assault Squad.

 

 

SW HQ is something that I really like. Very characterful, very fluffy, and highly customisable. I wanna know what the BA commander/captain can choose as wargear. (Just include those that have swords.. Like power weapon, frost blade, Glaives encarmine.. I love those.. Can't help it..)

 

Cheers!

[Brother Ariman]

I believe I have an answer for you my friend, how about you play Blood Ravens or other Blood themed chapters as Space Wolves, this way you can get the red and blood imagery with the rules of the good ol wolves.

[whitewolfmxc]

If your want to win every game , play BA . Yes i have the codex in my hands now , its that ridiculous.

 

If you just want a solid cool army , play SW

[Schertenleib]

I am personally a real big fan of our Counter Attack special rule. Just love it when my Blood Claws get assaulted and my opponent asks me why I get to roll so many dice ;)

[Wispy]

If your want to win every game , play BA . Yes i have the codex in my hands now , its that ridiculous.

 

If you just want a solid cool army , play SW

Hahahahahah!

 

 

HAHAHA

 

 

Ha.

 

 

(i don't really agree)

[Stormbrow II]

If you like to watch guys flex, then play BA because 6 packs and man nipples are where it's at.

 

The BA dex isn't that ridiculous. You don't get a lot of stuff for your points because the non-Troops are fecking pricy. I just don't like the homoerotic emo-vampire vibe myself. Pity too, I have lots of models for them.

[Grey Mage]

If you want something fast and quick, and don't want to lose the Space Wolves flexibility, Space Wolves have some very-fast assault elements in their cavalry and beast units. The Thunderwolf cavalry are very good at what they do, and rival the BA with the speed they can get into assault. I actually think they're better because they can oh-so-easily snatch the charge from units that need it.

 

...Personally, I think the best elements of the Space Wolves are the HQs....

Well the thing is, BA actually have almost all the units that C:SM has. They CAN be quite flexable, but the SWs have more flexable lists that your actually likely to see :tu:.

 

I like balanced armies- I like knowing that no matter what comes my way I have the tools to do what needs to be done because everything I have is flexable enough and tough enough to either do it themselves or hold out until something else gets there to do it.

 

Space Wolves are simply better at that than Blood Angels. BA assault squads are no better at close combat than grey hunters, but theyre faster... in return Grey Hunters are 3x as good at shooting. BA Tacticals are as good at shooting as a GH squad, a little better if you like your heavy weapons a lil worse if you like specials only, but were twice as good, atleast, as they are in CC.

 

You can go through the whole dex, and with the exception of a few units that simply have no easy analogue youll find this again and again- the BA has a small edge in its speciality, while the SW unit is more adaptable and has more overall effectiveness.

 

A few exceptions being: Death Company... we can kill these guys, but its as expensive to kill them as it is for a BA to field them, maybe more so depending on the day. Bloodclaws could take them on point for point... but the game isnt always so nice.

 

Librarian Dreadnaughts: Weve got nothing like this, nothing at all. Our psychic defense is amazing enough I dont think their a major threat to the SW forces, but they are an effective, is expensive, unit.

 

Stormraven: Heavy Weapon Bait... IF you have a model made up for it. Personally I think this was the stupidist idea that GW has done in a long time, giving an eldar transport to a marine player.

 

Sanguinairy Priests: Closest thing we could be said to have is extra HQ slots for Wolf Priests, but its really not the same at all. These can easily form the lynch-pin of a BA assault, but theyre fragile in their own way.

[Michaelus]

Ok, after reading the post all over again, and read through the codex a couple times, let's just say I had a vision. The wulfen kicked the vampire out for sure. Time to make that long awaited TDA wolf lord with Frostblade!

 

Thx to Grey Mage, let's turn this post (or start a new one) into. "Countering BA, the effective way"

 

BA do have most stuff that the C:SM have, but I'd doubt they use some of it. Their special BA unit is so flashy and shining I'd rather doubt they use some at all.

 

DC seems scary, but really expensive, so we can counter it up a bit with tons of firepower, and sweep up the rest with the Blood Claws.

 

Libby dreadnought seems tough as nails. Let's see how Bjorn do against him! Yay! Seriously, get the infiltrating (no OBEL) scout and bomb it up to bits. Or, load up those lascannon and melta and make sure it flows like a river.

 

Sanguinary priest. The holy grail with FC and FnP. Right. Snipe them with plasma guns. Once they're down to half or less, rapid fire them to death. IF they survive, those FC means nothing with such tiny number..

 

If they have speed, then we have something to counter all those at once: Rune Priest! (I forgot the power. My head is screwed up..) OBEL scouts might work, and those pods might be useful. All you have to do is gun their already little numbers to pieces, and charge up what's left. The way of Russ I'd say!

 

Cheers! (I'll review it completely once I'm back in a couple of weeks)

[Schertenleib]

If they have speed, then we have something to counter all those at once: Rune Priest! (I forgot the power. My head is screwed up..) OBEL scouts might work, and those pods might be useful. All you have to do is gun their already little numbers to pieces, and charge up what's left. The way of Russ I'd say!

 

Cheers! (I'll review it completely once I'm back in a couple of weeks)

 

 

If by speed you mean all the assault jump infantry.... Tempest's Wrath or Murderous Hurricane would do nicely.

[Spacefrisian]

If your want to win every game , play BA . Yes i have the codex in my hands now , its that ridiculous.

 

Maybe in the 1st few battles put the funny thing is that good players will soon find a easy way to demolish youre so called unbeatable army. For now i stick with pinning that BA army and blasting it to pieces with Dark Lances.

[Michaelus]

Aye, those Tempest Wrath and Murderous Hurricane it is. Oh, and another question: does the SW have some pinning weapons? It sounds like a good deal against speedy army. Or at least slow them down.

 

BA=overpowered? Yes, when you count it per unit. Point-wise, we win. We DEFINITELY win. We have the best banging cheap troops (Blood Claws) and the greatest rapid-firer there is (Grey Hunters). BA may win man to man, but they will feel our wrath when it comes to army to army!

 

Flying ASM? Gun those wings down and shoot them to bits. Libby dread? Make sure it flows like a hot lava. Mephiston? This is where plasma guns and plasma cannons (and some melta in the mix) comes in handy and dandy! DC? Lure them to the death zone, unleash a plethora of plasma cannons, and you'll see their black armour turns red.

 

We will sate their Red Thirst. We will give them blood. We will have them taste their own blood. For Russ, For the Wolftime!

[whitewolfmxc]

of course im just spanking on thier ideas on ridiculous ideas on units (yes a FNP aura for Loyalist ? and a Eldar like flying saucer (get the joke ?)...a too much unit type in the same slot that ends with something guard.... right........) and i know like us they will have lower model count , but yes per unit to unit . Some units / characters are just plain wrong

 

Now to how to counter BA , im having a game with them tmr . Ill make a bat rep if i could

 

For countering Mr M , its easy , 5 men drop pod of wolf guards in PA , then all with combi plasma in a drop pod , yes thats 10 plasma shoots for you my friend XD

 

 

Also on a PS: If someone today asks Matt ward "Hey do you think the BA codex you wrote is OP ?" he would say "If they were't their lame " , which by the way , is a true reference from Mr ward for when people asking him about a "cough cough" certain fantasy codex he also wrote that makes a lot of people mad about even today

[Michaelus]

Matt Ward should be fired. FIRE I say!! It seems that I lean more toward phil Kelly's codex.. (Space Wolves and Warriors of Chaos)

 

Ok, so do we have any troublesome BA unit in the way? My unnamed Wolf Lord would like to slice them to bits with his unnamed Frosttblade!

 

Come to think of it, does anyone know any Tactica (beside the blog) that is quite resourceful? If not, then I would kindly ask one of you to start one, then slowly expand it to fight certain Races (Xenos, heretics and PA alike), and then it might be concluded to create a balanced, tourny worthy list. Waddya say?

 

For Russ, for the Wolftime, we drink and cheers!! Huraa!!

[Schertenleib]

Oh come on. Is it really that bad? If I had access to a Jump capable dreadnought I would use it too. :)

 

As for pinning weapons....

 

Whirlwinds and Vindicators pin. As do Scout Snipers.

[DarkMark]

I lean more toward phil Kelly's codex.. (Space Wolves and Warriors of Chaos)

 

You mean the most 2-D army in fantasy Wizards? And his latest offering, Beastlymen, in which he effectively guts an already bottom tier army? He is very hit or miss I say. :unsure: Kelly's best work is definately in 40k.

 

Back on topic...

 

Some useful arguements here helping me decide which way to go. :(

[Orlando_Furioso]

forget all the advice so far...choose the Howling Griffons!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!! um...sorry about that, not a proper answer...

 

1. Go reds!!!

2. No ale, BLOOD!!

3. Rarghyargh Sanguinary Guard!