How much incoming fire do LF need to absorb?

[TiguriusX]

First off, I know this is an expensive unit. It totals 663pts and one could simply buy 3 separate units of 5xLC LFs and rely on the odds of rolling 15 attacks to make up for the missing tank hunter USR. However, I'm hypothesizing potential Logan combinations weighed against survival/flexibility (Logan + WG + RP can all be assigned elsewhere if your opponent can't threaten the LFs).

 

6xLF with 5xLC

Logan

Rune Priest with COTS and RA

WG in TDA with SS/PW

 

I am weighing the pros/cons on whether all the upgrades allow the unit to shrug off enough long range fire to keep the LFs blasting away and earning back their points or whether this is just a glass cannon point sink. I imagine Logan and RP only have to stick around for 1-2 turns before breaking off to join other mobile units to react to other threats.

 

-Logan + WG + RP can reliably absorb 3 krak missiles (3x 2+ armor saves in the unit)

-Logan + WG can risk absorbing 2 heavy weapons (lascannons/railguns) with Logan always taking the first and relying on eternal warrior if he fails (2 invulnerable save options 4++ and 3++)

 

What spits out a high volume of shots to pierce the firebase regardless of the armor saving upgrades I have added?

 

I am SM centric and the common long range options that come to mind seem to have 2 heavy weapons at most.

 

Off the top of my head I can think of the following threats that may appear in an opposing army

-SM Devastator squad can put out 4 LCs

-DP with 2+ rapid firing plasma guns (such as our own WG combi-plasma units) could shred the unit

-Squadroned LS-Typhoons could spit out 4+ kraks (but who squadrons those...)

 

All feedback appreciated!

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

I would say not to forget about horde shooting. Yes, orks and nids aren't set up to be snipers, but the sheer number of shots can trump even the best saves. With a full brood of 30 termagants, armed with devourers, your opponent can lay down enough shots that it won't matter whether you're making every save on 2+, because chances are when you have to roll that many dice, you're going to roll enough 1's to die.

 

With the setup you've got there, I'd say a horde of shots is more likely to obliterate you than a smaller squad firing heavy weapons.

 

My suggestion to keep that from happening is to have something like a big squad of skyclaws or wolves close by to jump in and put up a screen for that unit so the horde doesn't get the chance to unload on them. At the very least you should take enough with you to lessen the shots coming at you by a good margin.

[TiguriusX]

I would say not to forget about horde shooting. Yes, orks and nids aren't set up to be snipers, but the sheer number of shots can trump even the best saves. With a full brood of 30 termagants, armed with devourers, your opponent can lay down enough shots that it won't matter whether you're making every save on 2+, because chances are when you have to roll that many dice, you're going to roll enough 1's to die.

 

With the setup you've got there, I'd say a horde of shots is more likely to obliterate you than a smaller squad firing heavy weapons.

 

My suggestion to keep that from happening is to have something like a big squad of skyclaws or wolves close by to jump in and put up a screen for that unit so the horde doesn't get the chance to unload on them. At the very least you should take enough with you to lessen the shots coming at you by a good margin.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't thought of lootas or such. I'm not well versed in ork weaponry but my reference sheet shows a range of 36" and assault so they could walk forward and spam this high priced unit to death.

 

I came up with an alternative way to squeeze the most out of Logan. See what you think of the DP/relentless idea in the army list section

[Hear da Lamentation]

I'm far from experienced, but my feeling when playing is that great saves are awesome, but good saves (3+) and a lot more wounds is better. So for me, unless you needed to keep your heavy weapons slots free, the bigger units of LF would be better. That unit is going to attract a LOT of attention (which admittedly focuses them away from the rest of your group) but as Wolf Lord said, against mutliple shots you are going to be a lot of that unit.

 

But, as I say, I'm not very experienced. Would be interested to hear if that works well.

[Karack Blackstone]

The biggest problems...

 

10 Meltagun Eldar (Forget the unit type)

 

30 Shootas (5's or better can still be a problem)

 

Lootas

 

Snazz Gun

 

Mawloc Deep Strike onto table under them. (ignores cover, as far as my game store considers it)

[captain fabian]

Why would you fear Lascannon shots from enemy devastators? They fire one shot, not all of them hit and you have cover. Massed fire is what you fear. Not only Long Fangs but every average-good unit on the field. Also dont attach all these guys in ONE unit. If you fear that your LFs will get the enemys attention when they are alone, imagine what they will get with 2 characters in there. Apart from that bear in mind that your armys objective is to get the job done not to survive. What I mean is that if you throw enough targets at your enemy at the same time he will have a hard time dealing with all of them. The key is not survival. The key is tactical use of what you have. Of course marines are resilient but they cannot survive averything. So I believe taking away your opponents attention from them will buy the LFs some more time to do their job.

At least thats how I try to maximise the effectiveness of my army. Some of you might dissagree though. :tu:

[TiguriusX]

Why would you fear Lascannon shots from enemy devastators? They fire one shot, not all of them hit and you have cover. Massed fire is what you fear. Not only Long Fangs but every average-good unit on the field. Also dont attach all these guys in ONE unit. If you fear that your LFs will get the enemys attention when they are alone, imagine what they will get with 2 characters in there. Apart from that bear in mind that your armys objective is to get the job done not to survive. What I mean is that if you throw enough targets at your enemy at the same time he will have a hard time dealing with all of them. The key is not survival. The key is tactical use of what you have. Of course marines are resilient but they cannot survive averything. So I believe taking away your opponents attention from them will buy the LFs some more time to do their job.

At least thats how I try to maximise the effectiveness of my army. Some of you might dissagree though. :D

 

 

I don't think you see the theory behind this unit configuration. The only time Logan + RP + WG join the LF is if the enemy presents dedicated heavy armor. Any other opponent allows me the flexibility to place them with the remainder of my army and I could care less if they wipe out my AV unit

 

However, I have not considered the threat horde shooting provides. An ork army full of battlewagons with loota support could knock out my only AV and ram a ton of orks down my throat before I have my first turn of shooting.

 

I am now leaning towards Logan and 2 different LF unis DPing in (MM for vehicle heavy opponent and PC for horde based). The alpha strike concept eliminates my need to absorb incoming fire.