Hunting Tanks

[ImperialReaper]

I recently asked for opinions on what the best configuration for an predator tank is.

 

Reading through the various answers it dawned on me that a heavy armored tank is not the only way to destroy another heavy armored tank. Most people seemed to prefer smaller, more agile units to destroy tanks.

 

Since most people only read the first post of any topic, I never got an answer on the question wheather the predator even is the best weapon against enemy armor. It seems to me like a landspeeder with rockets and a mulimelter or even an assaultsquad with melterbombs could do the job more direct and efficient. Or maybe it depends on the battlefield? The heavy armored predator could be deployed on open space because he does not depend on cover that much. Landspeeders and assault squads could me more usefull e.g. in city fights where they can jump over a building and hit the enemy from behind.

 

Since I am relatively new to the game - I mostly do games around 600 points - up to a maximum of 1000 points.

 

Again your expertise is appreciated

[Koremu]

Predators, despite being billed as mobile fire support, are static entities on the tabletop (unless you are BA). All our best Anti-Tank is fast attack (Land Speeders, Bikes, Attack Bikes) or Elites (TH and Chainfist armed Terminators, DCCW Ancients).

 

Assault Squads are good against most armour, but bad against Raider-class targets. Tactical Squads can also kill pretty much anything that's not a Raider, thanks to Krak grenades.

 

Don't expect one Melta Bomb to solve all your troubles vs. Raiders. Most Raiders you ever get to Assault will be 6s to hit.

[Justicar Valius]

AV14 is done by melta. For codex marines this means tacticals, MM/HF speeders, Multimeltas on Landraiders.

 

AV13 is done by Lascannons, melta and Pfists and Thunder hammers. For codex marines this means tacticals, predators, and the aformentioned melta units.

 

AV12, AV11 and AV10 is done by autocannons and missile launchers. For codex SM this means dual autocannon dreds, missile launchers (Land speeder typhoons, know em love, use em) and the occasional lascannon.

 

Let me stress the importance of typhoons. Only ever arm them with the heavy bolters and typhoon missile launchers. You now have a 42" heavy infantry threat bubble (move 6" and fire kraks and the HB away). You also have a 54" tank threat bubble (move 12 and fire kraks away). You also have a massive 48" weak infantry threat bubble (move 12" fire frags and the Heavy bolter away). Is one of the most versatile units in codex SM and is great.

 

There are 2 ways to arm a pred (competively). Autocannon turret and heavy bolter sponsons. Also known as the dakka pred. Deals with infantry and occasionally light vehicles.

 

The second is know as the combi-pred. Autocannon turret and lascannon sponsons make a great light tank killer and heavy infantry killer.

 

Personnaly i never play as codex Sm but as aemon hunters but you can ally this unit in for a suicide melta attack.

5 Inquisitorial stormtroopers, 2 melta guns, rhino with extra armour and smoke launchers, 128. My faveourite unit, normally makes twice its points back against SM (we're big on landraiders around here) but will still be able to hit others well.

[Koremu]

AV14 is done by melta. For codex marines this means tacticals, MM/HF speeders, Multimeltas on Landraiders.

 

Bikes.

 

Let me stress the importance of typhoons. Only ever arm them with the heavy bolters and typhoon missile launchers. You now have a 42" heavy infantry threat bubble (move 6" and fire kraks and the HB away). You also have a 54" tank threat bubble (move 12 and fire kraks away). You also have a massive 48" weak infantry threat bubble (move 12" fire frags and the Heavy bolter away). Is one of the most versatile units in codex SM and is great.

 

Heavy Flamer Typhoon Speeders work well too. 2 Kraks at range, 2 frags and a Heavy Flamer Template in close. You trade off the 3 HB shots to gain a superior anti-infantry counter unit able to move 12" and throw down a template and 2 blasts.

[ShinyRhino]

Squad size really depends on what your intended target is, and what your weapon of choice will be.

 

You're going to find that melta squads (via bikes, MeltaVets IG, etc) tend to be small. They have to get extremely close to the enemy to be effective, so you don't want a huge, ponderous unit that's hard to hide. Small, fast-movers with meltaguns like a 5-man bike squad can slip through the cracks or around the back, apply melta, and hope to survive.

 

If you're applying lascannons in a gunline, you want big squads. For example, Dev squads. You want that full 10-man unit, because you'll likely be parked in cover, and taking return fire. You want to have plenty of bolter mooks in the squad to take as casualties, so you're not losing lascannons every time you take a wound.

 

If you're aiming for a melee solution via grenades, chainfists, powerfists, or an eviscerator, go with a middle-sized unit. Something small enough to be hideable in cover or out of LOS, but large enough to fight off or tarpit the inevitable countercharge from the enemy.

[Ming]

We've been finessing some of this out. Things we see as reasonable things to think about:

 

A squad with a single AT weapon in it is not a viable tank hunter. You must have at least 2 AT weapons in a squad for that role, 3 is more realiable, 4 may be needed.

 

Tactical Idea - get a tac squad with a melta gun, multi-melta, and combimelta (sergeant) within optimal range of a tank (12 to 01 inches away) and you have a viable tank killer. 3 dice at S8, AP1, and maybe close enough to add 2 D6 AP. You can count on at least stunning. Problem is getting the tac squad there - firing the meltagun and combi (2 dice of AT) is the minimum you get, say, if delivering the squad by pod, or even dismounting from a rhino. Very short range however, making the squad(s) vulnerable to charge the next turn.

 

Tactical idea - load out a sternguard squad in a pod - deep strike next to a squadron of enemy armor and you can, if equiped well, unleash meta gun hell at the level able to kill or at least stun 3 vehicles. If the target is 2 vehicles of different units, the maxed out sternguard can combat squad on leaving thr pod, giving two tank killer squads at very short range. Very short range however, making the squad(s) vulnerable to charge the next turn.

 

Tactical idea - flanking AT - a terminator squad with an AC or CML is a good AT unit on the turn it drops in. Need the side shot on Chimeras (AV 10 on the side) for thee AC variant (plus you get support from the storm bolters), or reasonable chance at front with the CML (2 dice, S8). This can be done at ranges of 24 inches, at least out of charge range.

 

Tactical idea - flanking assault squad - 3 plasma pistols. S7. Not bad vs side or rear.

 

 

 

A tac squad with one AT dice is not a reasonable chance to shake or stun a tank (ever miss with theat multi metla or lascannon when it really mattered?)

[ShinyRhino]

Tactical Idea - get a tac squad with a melta gun, multi-melta, and combimelta (sergeant) within optimal range of a tank (12 to 01 inches away) and you have a viable tank killer. 3 dice at S8, AP1, and maybe close enough to add 2 D6 AP. You can count on at least stunning. Problem is getting the tac squad there - firing the meltagun and combi (2 dice of AT) is the minimum you get, say, if delivering the squad by pod, or even dismounting from a rhino. Very short range however, making the squad(s) vulnerable to charge the next turn.

 

I've been running this squad off an on lately, and it stinks. The only reliable delivery method for them is in a Rhino. If you move the Rhino, you can't fire the multimelta. You can only fire the meltagun/combi if you moved 6" or less, which won't get you anywhere NEAR a smart player's tanks. If you move 12", you can't fire the meltagun/combi. I have yet to find a useful way of deploying and succeeding with this unit. Melta requires mobility, which mech troops just don't have. Unless you're spamming the hell out of this unit, the Rhino is going to be at least shaken every turn, and again, you can't fire out of it.

 

A tac squad with one AT dice is not a reasonable chance to shake or stun a tank (ever miss with theat multi metla or lascannon when it really mattered?)

 

Tacticals never do anything alone. Ever. IMO, their special/heavy choices are there for 'plinking' shots. One shot might not do much, but the three free MLs in your three tactical squads add up by volume of fire. Plink all of those one-off heavy shots from your tacs before you start firing multishot units like Devastators or Autocannons. Once the one -offs are done for the turn, you know exactly what can still hurt you, and dedicate the non-splittable fire to those targets.

[Koremu]

Tactical Idea - get a tac squad with a melta gun, multi-melta, and combimelta (sergeant) within optimal range of a tank (12 to 01 inches away) and you have a viable tank killer. 3 dice at S8, AP1, and maybe close enough to add 2 D6 AP. You can count on at least stunning. Problem is getting the tac squad there - firing the meltagun and combi (2 dice of AT) is the minimum you get, say, if delivering the squad by pod, or even dismounting from a rhino. Very short range however, making the squad(s) vulnerable to charge the next turn.

 

I've been running this squad off an on lately, and it stinks. The only reliable delivery method for them is in a Rhino. If you move the Rhino, you can't fire the multimelta. You can only fire the meltagun/combi if you moved 6" or less, which won't get you anywhere NEAR a smart player's tanks. If you move 12", you can't fire the meltagun/combi. I have yet to find a useful way of deploying and succeeding with this unit. Melta requires mobility, which mech troops just don't have. Unless you're spamming the hell out of this unit, the Rhino is going to be at least shaken every turn, and again, you can't fire out of it.

Personally, I would never run a Meltagun and a Multi-Melta in the same squad, as they have no preferred range banding that overlaps. Beyond 12" the MM wants to stay still, while the Meltagun needs to close, while within 12" the Meltagunners want to move forward and go for a Krak assault if necessary. I use Power Fist, Combi-Melta, Meltagun, Heavy Bolter as a reactive unit - it stays Rhino mounted in company with other units and dismounts to assault enemy tanks or dakka enemy infantry.

[StormTAG]

Vindicators also make pretty decent tank hunters. I know I have good luck with them atleast. Strength 10, ordinance gives you decent odds to glance AV 14 and pen anything lower. Problem, of course, being that there's only one shot. However, they're versatile tanks since that same shot can obliterate infantry, heavy infantry or what have you.

 

A recent game, they popped open a number of wave serpents, letting my tacticals kill off all his troops. Made it rather hard to hold any objectives. :rolleyes:

[Koremu]

I blew up a Monolith with my Vindicator the other day, as it goes. It took 3 turns of fire.

 

I could have force-phased the Necron player by turn 3 if I'd tried, but he was new.