chapter master 454 Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Ok, so while a unit of this size is completely expensive as hell if lead by lemartes makes them seriously powerful and even if you upgrade only 10 with power weapons and 6 with infernus pistols they are still juggernauts of combat (I did a play test and on the charge this squad multi-charged two 30 large ork boyz squads and wiped both out completely without the orks getting to attack back...that was 15 marines each and they just in one phase wiped out 30 ork boyz). The main power hit is lemartes, his re-roll to hit and wounds on the charge make these guys juggernauts of assault which could easily multi-charge an entire army and kill them off in majority before they even strike back. Now I am wondering if anyone would ever field such a stupidly powerful unit? The unit in question has the following load out: Lemartes, 30 men (so 31 in total), 10 have power weapons, 6 have infernus pistols and 5 can (this is optional) have power fists and ALL of them have jump packs. This comes in at under 1500 somewhere but over 1000 points. Yes, 12" moving nutters who could easily make a necron player phase out in one turn from one multi-charge. Heck not even a C'tan could take the charge from these guys, they are that nuts! Now IF the enemy gets to hit back, and thats IF, these guys a MEQ with FNP. In other words these guys are nearly as tough as plague marines but instead of being tough with moderate damage ability, these guys are tank. I think I saw a quote that a marine is like a mini or something. Well these guys a land rovers who hate you and not minis! What are your thoughts on such an expensive but extremely powerful unit (and remember they are also fearless) and can conga line without hinderence (so 3+/4+ followed by a 4+!)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezartfox Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 They have Rage don't they? *turbo boosts a speeder behind them* It's like leading a donkey with a carrot! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2349966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 My Eldar army hopes that someone fields that unit against me. Anyone with a few battle cannons can have a laugh... I would imagine that when you have over 1,000pts of stuff you can easily find a way to destory or significantly weaken them before they hit you. I might make 30 and put them with Seth for Apocalypse (Obviously won't be able to have Jump packs :'() but just for fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2349967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettothegone Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Fun, killy, but a Leafblower list will turn the lights on in the club pretty quickly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2349983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Id hit his actual scoring units with my LR firepower, and send my typhoons out to flank this squad and make him chase them around. Or better yet... hit them with Murderous Hurricane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2350021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeonic Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 I'm just not sure what the point would be, it's an expensive killy unit that you can't control, and you have to either run acros the board(your opponent has more control over them than you do), or deep strike them(your opponent gets free template laying power on them). The way I see death company as useful is stuffed into a raider with minimal upgrades(a couple fists and infernus pistols for high armor values/toughness) and rammed right into your opponents throat to cause chaos, right where you want them. Well, that and you could then take a couple death company dreadnoughts, always a good thing. Rage isn't such a bad thing when you're an AV12 walker with stupid insane attacks and S10 CCWs. It wouldn't be fun to play, it would be interesting to play against if you had any mobility at all, but I don't see a massive blob of jumppack death company as useful. Even at apocalypse levels it would be terrible, someone would just lay down an apocalypse pieplate and your entire army would be gone. Maybe I'm just bitter because my troops don't get to wear red Xes on their armor. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2350045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 The whole pointof Death Company is to move them forward, which kind of nullifies the allure of a 30-man squad. There's no way in heck you're getting cover for those guys. One Vindicator, Russ, Basilisk, Defiler, Shokk Attak Gun, etc etc etc is vaoprizing them by the fistful. I'm guessing these guys have jump packs? Land in terrain for cover saves, and you're taking at least 15 Dangerous Terrain tests. No armor saves, so no FNP saves. One Trick Pony. And a lame pony, at that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2350048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Eh... best use of a large squad of death company? Flank Rollers. Drop 20ish of them on your flank, continually run them towards the enemy... have maybe two powerfists in there, and let them obliterate whatever they hit. Use your cheap devastators to try and knock out fast units like skimmers and bikes that might prove "distractions" and force your opponent to either allocate alot of resources to them or run away from them. *shrugs* Once they hit, just keep hitting until theyre dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2350067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 scoring is for pansies, I want my 11 dread list wich requires at least 25 DC. Note: its unlikely I will aver make this list, what with my tiney tiney collection, but I still want to SEE it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2350176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Can someone say strength 10 pie plates on threads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2350196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 I've always thought of the Death Company as that nuisance/speedbump unit... You have no real control over them - in fact I think a bystander should roll their dice ;) - that you just "Cry havoc and let slips the dogs of war"... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2350212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadarn Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 If I were facing them as part of a tactical exercise then it would be flamestorms, plasma and demolisher cannons all the way. There are a few other options: Spread your army out and make with the combat squads. Bait him with small squads which will clearly be annihilated, but it doesn't matter, as so long as I keep my units spread far enough apart, they can still only charge on unit per turn. In a 6 turn game, that's a maximum of six small units he's going to kill. In an objective game I'd simply ignore them and take out what few troops he had, while keeping my own 100% out of hamrs way and focussed on the objective. However, I would most likely use stealth, sense and wisdom by packing up and walking away, as the game would be a very dull experience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2351243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Rather amusing for fluff purposes... But an experience tactician can easily divert them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2351476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Isaac Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 The most severe weakness of the 30 man DC unit is it's price... Think if Calgar and his 30 Honour Guard all in Raiders and you'll understand :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2368858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 The most severe weakness of the 30 man DC unit is it's price... Think if Calgar and his 30 Honour Guard all in Raiders and you'll understand :( But the difference is the death company steam roll calgar and his honourguard (because we hit your best of the best on 3s with our mad nutters...something seems wrong here) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2368981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 The most severe weakness of the 30 man DC unit is it's price... Think if Calgar and his 30 Honour Guard all in Raiders and you'll understand ;) But the difference is the death company steam roll calgar and his honourguard (because we hit your best of the best on 3s with our mad nutters...something seems wrong here) You have to get them out of the Land Raiders first... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2369092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Mutually assured destruction I reckon. Both hit simultaneously and Honour Guard have power weapons and massed attacks. 5 Honour Guard can do for around 10 WS & T4 models on the charge, whilst Calgar can take a few too. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2369123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 Mutually assured destruction I reckon. Both hit simultaneously and Honour Guard have power weapons and massed attacks. 5 Honour Guard can do for around 10 WS & T4 models on the charge, whilst Calgar can take a few too. :D -cough- furious charge -cough- and f lemartes leads them then you can kiss your attacks back goodbye, even calgar will have trouble making them last longer! as the death company have WS and S 5 on the charge and with lemarte's they not only re-roll to hit but also to wound so 3s to hit and wound and both being able to be re-rolled. As for the land raider, infernus pistols work wonders (yea 6" range but lets face it, we often do just run right up point blank!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2369557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Done measuring the size of your bolter shells? Seriously, the main issue that a 30 strong death company is going to face is its sheer mass. After the 600pt minimum price tag, not to mention whatever SCCWs you want or the extra 450pts if you want to give them jump packs, they still need to be able to move around the battle field and they HAVE to move towards the nearest enemy, always. For 600pts Any C:SM player can snag 12 Missile Launchers, 15 for SWs even, and drop around 8 a turn at LR... or deal with the rest of the army at a considerably excellerated and FNP ignoring rate. If this unit sees the light of day outside of apocalypse I will give mad props to the person who does it.... and Ill be theyre going to lose against a good opponent. Scary, but like most units that go over 700pts, just not worth it in a normal game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2369641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 What are my thoughts? 1) Park a Rhino in front of them. Watch as they charge and rip it to shreds. Unleash Vidicator hell. 2) Lash of Submission. More Vindicators. As you were, gents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2369813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Isaac Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 10 CC scouts all bunched up together. With 2 Vindicators behind them. You assault the Scouts, ripping them up and suffering 0.0004 casualities. Then you end up bunched together and gaze in awe as I drop template after template on your 700 point unit, AP2 so goodbye FNP. YET, this entire combo is still less than 700 points, and I would still have enough points left over for a Raider, or a Las/Plas Tac with Fist and Razor with TL-LC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2370080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Mutually assured destruction I reckon. Both hit simultaneously and Honour Guard have power weapons and massed attacks. 5 Honour Guard can do for around 10 WS & T4 models on the charge, whilst Calgar can take a few too. :) -cough- furious charge -cough- and f lemartes leads them then you can kiss your attacks back goodbye, even calgar will have trouble making them last longer! as the death company have WS and S 5 on the charge and with lemarte's they not only re-roll to hit but also to wound so 3s to hit and wound and both being able to be re-rolled. As for the land raider, infernus pistols work wonders (yea 6" range but lets face it, we often do just run right up point blank!) Ha yeah, but who said the Honour Guard wouldn't get to charge. Besides, a Orbital Bombardment later and I would be laughing! :P But yeah, totally unpractable in a standard game. So much points in a single unit is a recipe for disaster in 40K, in which most armie have a weapon that will put a world of hurt on the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2370385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningblood Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 another thing you have to take into account with the 30 large squad of badassary is that there are 30 of them! they can take up sixty inches of a table if you really want too. With that kind of dispersion it will be difficult to herd them and they will likely assault into multiple units in the assault phase. And rip them to pieces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2370479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 another thing you have to take into account with the 30 large squad of badassary is that there are 30 of them! they can take up sixty inches of a table if you really want too. With that kind of dispersion it will be difficult to herd them and they will likely assault into multiple units in the assault phase. And rip them to pieces. Rage makes it very difficult to play deployment/formation tricks like that, since models have to move at max speed towards the nearest enemy, which tends to clump them up a bit. Also, as others have mentioned, tossing in a small sacrificial unit will get the DC clumped together via pile-in; using an empty Rhino to tank shock them also works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2370720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Orbital bombardment that unit. Oh my, how wonderful it'd be if it got a direct hit. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/197257-the-30-death-company-strong-unit/#findComment-2370840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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