The 30 death company strong unit

[Chengar Qordath]

Orbital bombardment that unit. Oh my, how wonderful it'd be if it got a direct hit. :P

With 30 models in the unit you could probably afford a fair bit of deviation anyway.

[Giga]

Orbital bombardment that unit. Oh my, how wonderful it'd be if it got a direct hit. :D

With 30 models in the unit you could probably afford a fair bit of deviation anyway.

True that. :)

 

A vulkan list would also have jolly old time against that big death company unit. All those multimeltas and flamers would actually go a long way toward thinning out those deathcompanions in a single turn of scorching death. ;)

 

And that's not even mentioning things like battle cannons, monolith pieplates, basilisks, etc. Oh my...

[chapter master 454]

Ok, now lets bring the topic down on how they can be used without problem. Personally I am going to be trying out a 10 man squad lead by lemartes with 5 power weapons and 2 infernus pistols. 605 points in total, the list also packs a land raider redeemer with 5 terminators and a captain in it so the list has two high costing areas but with nailing both not entirely possible to do within reason (and even then, you will need to sink your shooting into the death company or the land raider entirely to remove them completely from the game).

 

The idea is the 5 normal dudes soak up some of the fire, lemartes taking the ocassional bolt shell to see if I can get his rage rule going (where he becomes Str5 and Att5 which makes him str6 and 7atts on the charge with re-rolls to hit and wound!). When the hit the enemy lines I only need 3-4 lead by lemartes to be effective because even if you reduce them to small numbers: even lemartes on his own is scarey enough to make squads shake in their boots and adding even one Death company with power weapon is nasty. If the normal dudes reach then good for them, more ablative wounds for CC (and as a note, lemartes can't be singled out! No IC rule!). Yes battle cannons will hurt and all that but to be honest thats in a nutshell: if that battle cannon is firing at my death company it isn't firing at the missle launcher or land raider with terminators coming at it (which often wastes any other anti-tank weapons it carries). The list I made is target redundancy: I have 2 Uber-killer units that are tough to kill without resorting to your big guns so I will be plastering your guts over the table edge whether you like it or not (and trust me, guardsman seem to hate storm bolters just as much as they hate death company charging. As a note: ten death company along could make an entire combined platoon run regardless of size. Would be funny to watch as I just pummeled them to death!

 

So yes, 30 man strong squad is more the idea of spamming them with intent to conga line them with bolters (30 bolter shots a turn at max could potentially be painful and with more than one closest unit there lies a problem in that it winches them in. Even without power weapons: 90 attacks at str5, WS5 and INT5 is quite scarey)

[Gothical]

...that's 1145 points in 2 units.

 

My Guard would have no trouble (5 Leman Russes WILL hurt, and I don't give two hoots about them not shooting at your "missile" :lol: that is or the Land Raider - Str8 will struggle to harm it), though you'd probably give most Marine armies a run for their money, particularly without Vindicators.

 

The big weakness that I can see is you have very little points for scoring units and long-ranged firepower.

 

If the enemy (we'll go with Marines, as Guard would just paste this army with Melta Veterans and Battle Cannons, and not caring how many people you can kill in assault if you're only being fed 50-70pts of Infantry a turn) goes down the Drop Pod route then you have issues, especially if they elect to go 2nd.

 

A few small troops/Land Speeders starting in cover to draw away your Death Company, then 1/2 the army landing and nuking either whatever you have holding objectives, or that Land Raider - or even on the other side of the board to where you've deployed. The other half comes down willy-nilly, true - but that works in their favour really, as they can deploy at certain points to keep drawing the Death Company around the board.

 

The most amusing tactic would be to deploy forces on your own-side, left corner and let the Death Company come towards you - sacrifice your 1st turn wave to take out everything else in the army, then land the next Pod that comes up in the enemy right corner - make the Death Company track back across the board, diagonally. The next one then goes in the enemy left corner, dragging them across that way, then your own-side right corner.

 

Essentially, you could draw the Death Company right across the board, in a Z or Hourglass pattern. With so many points invested in 2 "uber" units, you can afford to sacrifice your Pod units in that way. Would be extremely entertaining to watch!

 

In short, I don't think going with the "uber" Death Company is a good idea. People know how dangerous they are, and will allocate a lot of AP1-2 firepower or Str 8-10 Ordnance) which is quite prevalent in most armies. Any army that doesn't have that sort of kit will have cheap-or-fast enough units to herd the Death Company around whilst eliminating the other sections of your force, or will feed their squads to you one-at-a-time whilst they go about their business as normal.

 

Yes, it's extrordinarily killy - but it's simply too expensive for a unit you, and this is the really big killer for the idea, cannot control.

[thade]

I'm surprised at all of you, especially the seasoned players. C'mon! Writing off this super unit because of pie plates? Pie plates are weak sauce and nobody knows better how to nerf them than an Ork player, which you'll want to take a note from if you're going to use a 30-man unit of any type. =)

 

Srsly. A huge, fearless unit? Sounds like Orks to me. Spread them out at the max 2" from each other and then suddenly even your big pie plate is only hitting two to three guys. Big. Whoop. They won't break and screw that cover save...you have 30 freakin marines, with only a third of them upgraded, you have plenty of ablative wounds. T4, 3+ save, FNP...they are going to take fire, sure, but they are still going to be numerous and massive when they hit enemy lines. And you want to try and kite them with land speeders? This Death Company is packing all boltguns. Rapid Fire + Relentless = that'll work for maybe one to two turns. Did I mention I have other fire support in this army? Which you are ignoring due to the massive, super-hard-to-kill point sink that's flying around? Yes, flying. I gave all 30 of them jump packs. Which means they have Descent of Angels. Which means I can drop them in your lines and bolterfire HOSE one of your super units to death. I guess your template weapons will work now...if they're still standing. If I'm gonna DS them, I may as well throw 6 melta pistols in.

 

I may have only minimal scout units for scoring units. ^_^

 

Devil's Advocate. Somebody has to!

[Gothical]

Thade, these work totally differently to the Ork super-units because they can't "Turbo-Boost" for a cover-save, and they have lower toughness (IIRC). It's acutally the lack of cover-save that seriously bones the unit - even Ork players fear multiple Ordnance Templates because they blast through the Nob Squad easily (the cover-save can be failed, and then there's the infliction of Instant Death removing whole mulit-wound models at a time - their different equipment is actually a hindrance in this instance). Plasma bounces off Nob Bikers, but it won't the Death Company.

 

Regular mobs are decimated by template fire too. The only reason it works for Orks is because they're so cheap. Something the Death Company certainly aren't. You can get 6x30 Ork Mobs for the same cost (although with no upgrades) which will actually be harder to kill than the DC unit!

 

Thing is most things that ignore Marine armour saves will also inflict Instant Death on the unit, or is AP1-2, thereby ignoring FNP too.

 

If the unit is spread out then it's going to be even easier to hit with templates. Sure, you may only kill 3 with each template, but for (me personally at 2K with Guard) that's 15 dead a turn. There's only 30 in the unit, and it's going to take more than 2 turns to cross the board at 2K. If anything does get past, it's fed 60pt squads on-at-a-time, and they still can't consolidate after winning assault (which is inevitable). They'll be all bunched up, nice and ready for another does of templates.

 

Deepstriking them would indeed offer a valid tactic, but they can still only slag 1 unit per turn, and if you want to run (to get out of the lovely "template" formation) then you can't shoot and eliminate one of the tanks. So you either kill 1 tank and face the brunt of the rest of them hitting 10+ guys each, or run to spread out but don't get to take out the armour, and end up facing more shots.

 

Hugging cover is a lot more difficult than you imagine because of the lack of control over the unit.

 

It could probably work against other Elite-centric armies though - Sternguard spam (since they will have limited shooting opportunities) and TH/SS-heavy Marines will feel the pain, especially without Vindicators. A Drop-Pod heavy army will force the Death Company to run laps around the board, so if they have enough Scoring units they'll win in most games, and triple-Vindicators will mean you remove the unit as soon as you get close to the enemy.

 

Orks can probably out-"deathstar" the unit with Nob Bikers, although that would be an amusing match-up. Normal Orks is going to be a pretty even fight I should think, especially as most players don't take Burna Boyz these days - the Death Company will be better in Assault, but there are heaps more boyz and supporting elements to deal with.

 

Eldar I have no idea - they're mostly Mech so can just run away faster than you can catch them, but seem to lack any reliable AP1-2 firepower - and I would not want to get close with Fire Dragons, I can tell you, and Wraithlords won't be much good either. Howling Banshees will be something to look out for, as will upgraded Harlequins.

 

Tyranids...depends how many Big Bugs really. The unit will shred it's way through Gaunts, but if the enemy takes Cheapo-Carnifexes then they will probably reduce the unit down to "manageable" numbers. Sure, the Fex will inevitably die, but they'll likely take guys with them. A pop-up Mawlock would cause havoc, but also probably die. I reckon this is another place where the unit could actually work.

 

Tau are pretty boned, along the same reasons as Eldar but without the combat units in support. I guess the biggest problem will be that you wipe a Squad out, but can't consolidate and get a face full of shots next turn. Sure, you'll shrug most of them off, but it's going to add up; and like Guard you won't be getting many points back for your investment.

 

Guard - you are boned against, particularly since people favour Leman Russes these days (and Devil Dogs in Fast Attack). The same cost as your "uber unit" gets you 2 Devil Dog (small blast Melta weapon with 24" range) and 5 Leman Russes (large AP3 blast, 72" range). I tend to take 5 tanks at 2K to keep the cost down, but it will still be more-than-likely to defeat that uber unit.

 

So no, I don't reckon they work. The things that they will be brilliant against are mostly Eldar, Tyranids and Tau - something that regular Assault Marines can take on for a lot cheaper, and have the supporting units to deal with the things they can't (mostly those Monsters). They could counter the Elite-heavy Marine armies often seen in tournaments, but against the calibre of players at most tournaments I think they'd be able to pick the super-unit apart, or just avoid it.

 

This isn't to write Death company off as a whole, just the idea of spending ~1150 points on a single unit (or rather, as the discussion has changed, ~1150pts on 2 Infantry units and 1 Land Raider). Sure, it's brilliant and brutal on paper, but it just won't work in most games.

 

To recap on why they're not that good:

 

1) Hard to control

2) Vulnerable to AP1-2 guns and AP3-or-better templates

3) Hard to control

4) Cannot consolidate between combats, which they will admittedly win, leaves them very vulnerable to incoming fire

5) There's pretty much bugger-all else in the army to draw fire (especially if taking that Land Raider unit - people won't fire Str8 weapons at it, so will target pretty much the only other thing on the board, the Death Company)

[thade]

You summed that up well. =)

 

Numbers-wise they're superior to any unit in the game, and one-on-one will mulch anything on the table.

 

Tactically in a full game, they are more of a liability than a strength. 30-strong is I think only a "good idea" for Apoc battles. But I don't really like battles that take all day with nine other players. :D

[Gothical]

You summed that up well. =)

 

Numbers-wise they're superior to any unit in the game, and one-on-one will mulch anything on the table.

 

Tactically in a full game, they are more of a liability than a strength. 30-strong is I think only a "good idea" for Apoc battles. But I don't really like battles that take all day with nine other players. :)

 

Thanks, I was worried it would come across as offensive.

 

I don't know that I'd field them in Apocalypse either, come to think of it (maybe 3x10-man units as FOC are ignored, right?) - can you imagine hitting all 30 with the "Strength D" attacks, or the "Bin-lid template" that most people have access to :P

[chapter master 454]

ok, my 10-man squad of death company had a lack luster game however I will say this: despite being charged by shrike and his crew of assault marines following a seriously scarey amount of pre-charge fire, lemartes and one guy with power weapon wiped out 7 dudes. Ok I know I ain't an assault master but for a unit to be charged and with only 2 guys wipe out 3 times their number is a serious achievement in my books.

 

They were lead around a bit but to be honest the army I was playing was for laughs (and could of done better is a thunderhawk could deliever a land raider on time...turn4, unreal. Should of gone with Fed-ex :) ). I did notice he had a vindicator that I was scared of but only because my death company were the only target it had (thankfully, even with cronus, it was unable to hit the broadside of an imperator titan). My only annoyance was he was the one who got the charge, this is where I think I lost out: Lemartes can actually out pace even shrike in CC (and because of his fury unbound being activated because of a rending sniper shot that did more damage to him than lemartes in the long run!) the charge could of done me the win in that fight. 7 attacks are strength6, re-roll to hit and wound, power weapon and he's int7, he is a deadly CC unit. A normal DC guy with power weapon lead by lemartes on the charge is Str5 and int5 along with 4 attacks, re-rolls to hit and wound. So in total: they take the 'charge or be charge' rule to the next level!

 

And thanks thade for giving your support for DC, they cost the same as vanguard (bar their 15pt jump packs) and are serious CC machines. Without rage they would easily be worth 30 points per guy. I would love to in an apoc game have astorath leading 180 of these nutters across the board, have each with a reclusiarch (return of the uber chaplin) and one lead by lemartes: all with jump packs and each squad having 50/50 thunder hammers/power weapons. Would be a hell of a game but lets face it, with only 6" of no mans land between me and you; hope you get first turn because you won't if I do!!!

[thade]

Lets not forget that, since they're Relentless, they can assault out of Rhinos. AND our Rhinos are fast. That's a really good way to deliver ten death company so deep into the bad guys that there won't be too much leading them around before the start chewing on what they're not supposed to :D

[Gothical]

Lets not forget that, since they're Relentless, they can assault out of Rhinos. AND our Rhinos are fast. That's a really good way to deliver ten death company so deep into the bad guys that there won't be too much leading them around before the start chewing on what they're not supposed to :D

 

That's the way I'd use them if I was Blood Angels - but I wouldn't trick them out too much, because Rhinos aren't all that durable, and most people expect Mech so load up on Autocannons and similar weapons. Sure, with a Fast Vehicle chances are they'd get there, but if they're all been given Power Weapons/Fists then it's a lot of points sitting around in no-mans land.

 

Actually - does Relentless allow you to assault out of a vehicle? I'm not sure it does - there's nothing about that in the rules. Also, you couldn't assault out the (having moved) Rhino as it's not Open Topped, even though it is Fast.

 

ok, my 10-man squad of death company had a lack luster game however I will say this: despite being charged by shrike and his crew of assault marines following a seriously scarey amount of pre-charge fire, lemartes and one guy with power weapon wiped out 7 dudes. Ok I know I ain't an assault master but for a unit to be charged and with only 2 guys wipe out 3 times their number is a serious achievement in my books.

 

For all I lambast Death Company, I certainly wouldn't charge a unit led by Lemartes. Mind you, I have Ordnance at my disposal :) I'm surprised they managed to take down so many guys, especially when they had been charged (then again they cost 600+ points, and Shrike and Co. cost ~400pts).

 

But as I mentioned earlier in my anti-super-unit rantings, these are exactly the kind of unit I expect DC to be able to chew up - points-intensive Marine units and Special Characters. Do you think they'd have faired as well if your opponent had take, say, another Vindicator instead of Shrike, or TH/SS Terminators instead of Assault Marines?

 

Also, Lemartes sounds scarily powerful...but is he really needed? DC seem quite powerful on their own, and there's always the standard Chaplain to consider too. In this instance he is what defeated the enemy, I grant you, but targeting anything *without* a Special Character, would he really matter? That might be one instance where the points could be put to use elsewhere. Mind you, I don't have the BA rules, so Lemartes might offer some real advantages.

 

And thanks thade for giving your support for DC, they cost the same as vanguard (bar their 15pt jump packs) and are serious CC machines. Without rage they would easily be worth 30 points per guy. I would love to in an apoc game have astorath leading 180 of these nutters across the board, have each with a reclusiarch (return of the uber chaplin) and one lead by lemartes: all with jump packs and each squad having 50/50 thunder hammers/power weapons. Would be a hell of a game but lets face it, with only 6" of no mans land between me and you; hope you get first turn because you won't if I do!!!

 

Please tell me that's a typo? Apocalypse armies, with their Super-Heavies and Basilisk-batteries start 6" (six inches) apart?

[thade]

Actually - does Relentless allow you to assault out of a vehicle? I'm not sure it does - there's nothing about that in the rules. Also, you couldn't assault out the (having moved) Rhino as it's not Open Topped, even though it is Fast.

 

I had been led to believe so, but now that I've gone back and read the Relentless rule again, I think not. Relentless means you don't count as having moved after firing Rapid Fire or Heavy weapons. Says nothing about undoing the Counts As Moved effect of a Transport.

 

So what I meant was "The Rhino can move and they can pile out and assault" and I was wrong.

 

However, if the Rhino sits there for a turn, they can pile out and assault the next turn, a la Khorne Bezerkers favorite tactic.

[Xeonic]

The Relentless USR states that they count as standing still for the purposes of firing heavy weapons. It then goes on to say that they're allowed to assault afterward, but that looks like it's only to clear the assault restriction on heavy weapons, not to remove other assault restrictions. P76

Under disembarking it plainly states that models who disembark after a transport has moved may not assault. P67

 

Since relentless merely allows assaulting after shooting heavy weapons(which for the purposes of shooting count as stationary), I don't see why that would supersede the transports base rule. The unit does count as stationary purely for shooting, but is still limited by the transport they were embarked upon for assault restrictions as I see it, otherwise the two rules are in conflict.

 

EDIT: I'm slow. Still, that would make death company pretty awesome to ignore the basic restriction on a cheap as chips transport.

[chapter master 454]

Also, Lemartes sounds scarily powerful...but is he really needed? DC seem quite powerful on their own, and there's always the standard Chaplain to consider too. In this instance he is what defeated the enemy, I grant you, but targeting anything *without* a Special Character, would he really matter? That might be one instance where the points could be put to use elsewhere. Mind you, I don't have the BA rules, so Lemartes might offer some real advantages.

 

Lemartes: a non-IC who is the equal of a captain in combat, has a Master Crafted power weapon, makes all death company re-roll to wound and hit on the charge (any chaplin gives DC this, it's basicly the DC getting an upgrade liturgies of hate/blood/fan-rage/water/fire/ranting/dorn's flatus after a beer rule). For 150 points he is a steal for what he gives (Jump pack, MC power weapon, non-IC among a group of FNP marines, has FNP himself and a 4++). The trick is thus with hi since you can allocate shooting to him: take a rending shot that doesn't insta-kill and put it on him and hope for a wound. Reason: he's now 1 wound but here's the fun: this kicks him into overdrive so his Str and attacks become BASE 5 each, combined with him being int6 base already he is a MONSTER. You charge an IC with him they can't hit him because of his DC but he can hit them before they can even attack with 7 strength 6 attacks that re-roll to wound and hit. (5 attacks base, +1 for charge, +1 for CC weapon. yes he has at min 6 attacks).

 

Oh wait, I have had a sudden realisation: previously in 4th edition I found that a libby could reach 9 attacks in one assault phase however I just found something: BA's might of heros can affect anyone in the squad AND it's the old +D3 attacks. YES, lemartes can have 10 Str6 Int7 attacks that re-roll to hit and wound...Oh dear emperor help us. For the first time I believe in 40k, I have found a character who can hit 10 attacks without much problem other than rolling 3 dice (2 for psychic, 1 for the D3 and even then his attacks range from 8-10!). HOLY :angry: does this mean lemartes is the first one to ever hit 10, the max value for any infantry model, attacks. Scared, and in LOVE with this... excuse me gentlemen, I have a libby to convert into a jump packer!

[Gothical]

Oh wait, I have had a sudden realisation: previously in 4th edition I found that a libby could reach 9 attacks in one assault phase however I just found something: BA's might of heros can affect anyone in the squad AND it's the old +D3 attacks. YES, lemartes can have 10 Str6 Int7 attacks that re-roll to hit and wound...Oh dear emperor help us. For the first time I believe in 40k, I have found a character who can hit 10 attacks without much problem other than rolling 3 dice (2 for psychic, 1 for the D3 and even then his attacks range from 8-10!). HOLY :angry: does this mean lemartes is the first one to ever hit 10, the max value for any infantry model, attacks. Scared, and in LOVE with this... excuse me gentlemen, I have a libby to convert into a jump packer!

 

Daemon Prince of Khorne with a Glaive, back in 3rd/4th could hit 10 attacks (and there was some argument about whether it could go beyond - I think it could potentially generate 14 IIRC).

 

Lemartes does sound pretty good for how much he costs. Then I guess it's OK keeping him.

 

I wouldn't add the Librarian though - how much extra does he add to the cost of the unit (for no extra survivability really)? Given the DC with Lemartes were, what, over 600pts already?

 

Also, can non-Death Company models/any models actually join Death Company? I can see issues with him not having Rage/whateveritistheyhave and no FNP - Rage forces the unit to move, yet units have to travel at the speed of the slowest member, which would be the Librarian who couldn't move like that.

[Zynk Kaladin]

[...]this kicks him into overdrive so his Str and attacks become BASE 5 each, combined with him being int6 base already he is a MONSTER. You charge an IC with him they can't hit him because of his DC but he can hit them before they can even attack with 7 strength 6 attacks that re-roll to wound and hit. (5 attacks base, +1 for charge, +1 for CC weapon. yes he has at min 6 attacks).

 

[...]YES, lemartes can have 10 Str6 Int7 attacks that re-roll to hit and wound...Oh dear emperor help us. For the first time I believe in 40k, I have found a character who can hit 10 attacks without much problem other than rolling 3 dice (2 for psychic, 1 for the D3 and even then his attacks range from 8-10!).

 

So, whack Lemartes on the head with a beer bottle and point him at a target ;)

 

I'd actually like to see how this goes against an ork army. A metaphorical bar fight comes to mind.

 

Ork: WAAGH!

 

Smack!

 

Lemartes: OW! GRRRRR!

 

Smack! Smack! Smack! Smack! Smack! Smack! Smack! Smack! Smack! Smack! (10-hit-combo)

[thade]

I want to roll a Furioso Dread into a Death Company and watch him tear them apart. =) As DC are so costly already, I'm thinking they minimize on power fists/thunder hammers so they can get the full 30 on the table and still have scoring units.

[Justicar Valius]

There is NO reason to give DC jump packs. A fast rhino on the over hand... (what you get for about the cost of 3 or 4 jump packs?).

 

Target saturation guys, it can be a big thing. Although most of you will be painting your DC rhinos black and that means everyone will know which one to hit...

[thade]

There is NO reason to give DC jump packs. A fast rhino on the over hand... (what you get for about the cost of 3 or 4 jump packs?).

 

Target saturation guys, it can be a big thing. Although most of you will be painting your DC rhinos black and that means everyone will know which one to hit...

 

Yet another benefit of a DIY chapter. ALL of my Rhinos are black. ;) With markings no xeno or heretic could comprehend. (that is to say, I rotate each game what Rhino is carrying what unit)

[chapter master 454]

There is NO reason to give DC jump packs. A fast rhino on the over hand... (what you get for about the cost of 3 or 4 jump packs?).

 

Target saturation guys, it can be a big thing. Although most of you will be painting your DC rhinos black and that means everyone will know which one to hit...

 

Yet another benefit of a DIY chapter. ALL of my Rhinos are black. ;) With markings no xeno or heretic could comprehend. (that is to say, I rotate each game what Rhino is carrying what unit)

 

Aka can't be bother painting them past basecoat!

 

While the fast rhino is nice, it's fragile and while negates rage denies you lemartes along with the fact that if th opponent sees a death company rhino say hello to anti-tank fire then they are stuck walking and thats worse. (however it's ork idea here, you get to move it you get them there however ether way turn 2 they hit the enemy lines, just varies on how reliable it is).

 

As for the beer fight, I would imagine lemartes drinking a big pint next to a drunk lysander who starts singing and calling BA a bunch of nancy boys, the words from lysander being str4 AP1 causing lemartes a wound and all hell breaks loose!

[thade]

There is NO reason to give DC jump packs. A fast rhino on the over hand... (what you get for about the cost of 3 or 4 jump packs?).

 

Target saturation guys, it can be a big thing. Although most of you will be painting your DC rhinos black and that means everyone will know which one to hit...

 

Yet another benefit of a DIY chapter. ALL of my Rhinos are black. :) With markings no xeno or heretic could comprehend. (that is to say, I rotate each game what Rhino is carrying what unit)

 

Aka can't be bother painting them past basecoat!

 

Hey now, I paint details on my marines. Not my fault that marines spray paint their armor and vehicles anyway. :lol: But I do markings and scoring and dirt, etc.

[Xeonic]

Well, having a rhino that anyone with a half a brain will shoot rightaway is actually a plus in my book. Make sure it's well obscured and hidden behind other rhinos/whatever as it advances up and you should do alright, even if it's asploded it means something like a baal pred or one of those nifty fast vindis wasn't getting shot at for awhile, or at least the rhinos that matter weren't.

 

In my opinion, it may be worth the points to field a min sized DC unit in a rhino with 1-2 specials just for that. If it makes it to your enemy unhindered, fantastic, if not, well plan so that them dying is also a way to accomplish a goal. Of course cost may prohibit this too, it's not like death company are(anywhere near close to) free anymore. ;)

[chapter master 454]

Well, having a rhino that anyone with a half a brain will shoot rightaway is actually a plus in my book. Make sure it's well obscured and hidden behind other rhinos/whatever as it advances up and you should do alright, even if it's asploded it means something like a baal pred or one of those nifty fast vindis wasn't getting shot at for awhile, or at least the rhinos that matter weren't.

 

In my opinion, it may be worth the points to field a min sized DC unit in a rhino with 1-2 specials just for that. If it makes it to your enemy unhindered, fantastic, if not, well plan so that them dying is also a way to accomplish a goal. Of course cost may prohibit this too, it's not like death company are(anywhere near close to) free anymore. ;)

 

However cost the same as a veteran but can hit even the chapters most elite on 3s. The reason I take the jump packs is two fold: Giving power armoured nutters the means to go flying through the air so they can come crashing down on enemy units is too good to pass up and second off with lemartes you pretty much help give them a seriously painful charge. yes they will get shot to bits but if they are getting the demolisher/lascannons/krak missles and all the other high strength stuff shoved up their thrusters then my baal predator/land raider redeemer/assault squad ain't so they hit the enemies; all a matter of what you do with them (however I find that having your opponent being a right ;) and placing an ironclad in sight is annoying however he fluffed it when he infiltrated some scouts, no more than 2-3 mm between them or the dread in distance. As a note: how do you determine the closest unit? because measuring could lead to you having a flash gits targetting in telling you how far one unit is away from a certain point).

[thade]

They're going to know which Rhino houses your DC anyway, because you all play will full disclosure, right?

 

...

...

 

Because, you have to present your list at the game start anyway. And without full disclosure, nothing prevents your opponent from magically teleporting/swapping transports at great times of need.

 

I only play with full disclosure, so the coloring of my Rhinos insofar as "disguising" a unit is irrelevant. I thought all tournament-style games were run this way?

[chapter master 454]

They're going to know which Rhino houses your DC anyway, because you all play will full disclosure, right?

 

...

...

 

Because, you have to present your list at the game start anyway. And without full disclosure, nothing prevents your opponent from magically teleporting/swapping transports at great times of need.

 

I only play with full disclosure, so the coloring of my Rhinos insofar as "disguising" a unit is irrelevant. I thought all tournament-style games were run this way?

 

We don't play disclosure however as it stands it more learning what tanks have what: they never switch transports. In general: play them once and you should know what tanks have what so in general it's silent disclosure. I personally disclose each squads location but one eldar player doesn't: he has the eldar symbols for each unit on the back of each tank.