Wraiths of Darkness

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Be warned that I'm going to have a bit of a rant/blowout below.

 

 

 

 

It's explained in the qoute...

 

 

Oh my good lord not again.

 

 

I have been absent from the Liber for a good while now due to other rather horrible and varied concerns and problems and it just so happens that the first topic I decide to take a look at contains something for which I just cannot hold myself back. It's 3am and I have to be up for work in a good five hours but this is bugging me.

 

 

It's explained in the quote is it? Really? Well obviously not well enough because the reader has not picked up on it (not explained well enough) or read it and not gotten the context because it was badly written.

 

The way you reply to criticism you think people are misreading or misconstruing is frustrating because you aren't explaining anything, you're not helping the person trying to help you, which in the end only hurts you and annoys the person leaving the comment.

 

If he missed it in the quote then it's your job to explain what it means and how you meant it, not ours to jump through hoops in order to get all the information we need in order to help you improve your work.

 

 

Your attitude is somewhat entitled, you believe you deserve the help, criticism and critique that is offered freely by members of the Liber who post solely for their own benefit at their own expense. You're not entitled to our advice or help and the implication, whether I am imagining it or not is simply infuriating.

 

Now, we all (to greater or lesser degrees) when looking at our own work believe that it deserves people look at it and either worship it or help you make it better (generally starting with the first and then moving to the second afterwards). However, having that come across to your commenter's isn't the greatest way to engender support.

 

This isn't the first time someone has attacked the forum for not responding quickly enough and I commented there in much the same way as I am here. It's just not on. This is our hobby and we do this in our own free time for our own reasons. Frankly, we aren't here for you.

 

You are unbelievably lucky to have the advice of some of the most patient and good natured Liber regulars the forum has ever seen, let alone since I've been here. I'm not one of them and this isn't the first time I've felt like I needed to say something as I'm sure you know.

 

 

Are you frustrated? Probably. This may sound somewhat hypocritical but how you deal with your frustration is down to you, it shouldn't bleed out into your thread when interacting with other people who are simply trying to help you when they usually have very busy lives to deal with in the interim between posting here.

 

 

Have I jumped down your throat and perhaps been a little hasty? Yes to the first and maybe to the latter but as I said above, this isn't the first time I've felt exceedingly frustrated by what can be a fairly unhelpful and off-putting attitude.

 

 

You'll find that's true for most characters... Just look at Ace's daemon.

 

 

Really? This is a silly comment and a side-swipe at a much better authors work. (He's a better author than me too so don't get your knickers in a bunch.)

 

To me a good character is one that can exist outside of the story that is happening around him/her. 

 

They have hopes and dreams, fears and flaws just like the rest of us. To me a character driven story is one that is moved forward (seemingly) by who they are, what their personality is and how it affects the world around them.

 

 

Deus Ex Inquisitor means something that exists solely as a whacking great crutch for the story to lean on. The Inquisitor is not a real person, he has no personality, no quirks no back story, no driving force or anything else and serves only to drive the plot forward in the same way a bridge over a cavern serves to stop traffic plunging into oblivion, just like the rest of your IT will if it can't link both parts together properly and competently.

 

I should probably mention that he came across other planets as well, who he could not punish and so raised his anger.

 

 

This isn't a throwaway comment, you should have written it in earlier since we're not mind readers. You include it as if it's common knowledge and you make me feel as if I'm the idiot for not having realized it sooner and maybe it's just me but I read this in a lot of your responses.

 

 

Half of this frustration that I'm venting right now is from the simply mind-boggling travesty earlier that was your criticizing Ace's colour schemes, being of all things disappointed with his work because he didn't have a good enough grasp of who you wanted your personal IT Warband to be!

 

And he's still commenting in a generous and good willed manner! If it had been me I probably would have washed my hands of you right there and then. No I'm not the nicest or most balanced or patient of Liber members but I'd like to think I stick with people and help them out despite some difficulties.

 

 

If all this is in my head then I would duly withdraw it and apologize but in all honesty if I'm the only one saying it, others are thinking it. If that's the case, whether the impressions I'm getting of what you're saying are accurate or not, you should evaluate just how you respond to people. This is a text-based medium and more information and explanation, no matter what for, is always better than throwaway comments and defensive remarks.

 

*Edit*

 

Edited to make it somewhat less offensive, that's not the pure intent of what I'm saying and I don't want it to come across as just being an attack on you DAT, more an expression of frustration. I do think you can do well and write a good IA/IT but you're getting stuck in certain things that you shouldn't, and then defending your getting stuck as if it's the best thing in the world.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Grey Hunter Ydalir

[Captain Juan Juarez]

*snip*

 

What my esteemed Brother GHY means to say is that it needs work!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

This is why I generally pay attention to the Liber :)

 

I have only been able to get on for 10-20 minutes the past couple of days because... to put it nicely, the owner of the computer has their mental capacity handicapped by their emotional inconstance, resulting in causing problems for the other users of the computer, including me. :D

 

I have read all of your posts, and the only thing I do feel the need to comment on (because I generally agree with everything else) is the character thing. Every character's sole purpose is to move the plot forward. I merely used Ace's daemon as an example, I could easily say the same of any character, whether it is Kar Vastor or Burias-Drak'shal. All they are there for is to move the plot forward.

 

I have been bouncing the idea of a rogue inquisitor(s). Is this a bad idea? Are there simply not enough rogues? Would a group of them make it any more or less beleivable? Is it just plain idiotic (and if it is, give me a reason why... not so that I can fight it but so that I can avoid similar mistakes).

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I have read all of your posts, and the only thing I do feel the need to comment on (because I generally agree with everything else) is the character thing. Every character's sole purpose is to move the plot forward. I merely used Ace's daemon as an example, I could easily say the same of any character, whether it is Kar Vastor or Burias-Drak'shal. All they are there for is to move the plot forward.

 

Nope.

 

As GHY explained there are two distinct styles to tell a story; those where the characters are the fulcrum for that story and those where they are basically a bystander - events occur in spite of who/what they are rather than becuase of it.

 

And again, pointing out the potential weaknesses in the work of others as a defence only makes your own mistakes seem... larger.

 

Anyhoo..

 

The thing to work is is if the events that turned the Chapter happened because of Character X, or if it would have happened regardless of who was in control; you still need to give cast iron reasons why either is the case though.

 

This then informs how large a part that particular character plays and whether you IA will be driven particularly by certain characters, or pushed forward as a whole.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

So, no thoughts on rogue inquisitors? Is there simply not enough fluff about them to form an opinion?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

So, no thoughts on rogue inquisitors? Is there simply not enough fluff about them to form an opinion?

 

Number one, do your own research before presenting an idea to others.

 

Number two, Rogue Inquisitor =/= Loyal Inquisitor in terms of Deus Ex Inquisitor.

 

 

Here's the wikipedia article on Deus Ex Machina.

[Ace Debonair]

So, no thoughts on rogue inquisitors? Is there simply not enough fluff about them to form an opinion?

 

I actually think a rogue inquisitor is less of a threat than a regular one, as the rogue one doesn't have the powerful authority and backing that a loyal inquisitor would. What's to stop your lads from just destroying the traitor and carrying on as normal?

 

The idea of an inquisitor excommunicating your chapter is not bad in and of itself, you just need a much better reason for him to do so than "because somebody else had ticked him off". :lol:

Edited December 8, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I actually think a rogue inquisitor is less of a threat than a regular one, as the rogue one doesn't have the powerful authority and backing that a loyal inquisitor would. What's to stop your lads from just destroying the traitor and carrying on as normal?

 

The threat of a rogue inquisitor isn't that he has less resources than a loyal one, it's that he has more malicious goals than a regular inquisitor. Mainly, a rogue inquisitor is hard to catch and then prove until after the fact of some supremely heretical activity, and even then.

 

To me, they are both much of a muchness.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Erm... I was going for a group of rogue inquisitours masquerading as loyal ones, but ok ^_^

 

Ydalir - but you people tend to know so much more... Besides, I don't have the money to go and buy the Rogue Inquisitour games, which I assume have the most fluff on them? I doubt there is another way to get it besides asking a friend who has the game themselves. Nobody I play with has it, so I turn to the editors.

 

I know what Deux ex Machina is, and I do try and vaoid it like the plague... I would tell you the backstory of this guy as well, but it's not relevant to the IT. Indeed, the whole sidebar is slightly unnecessary, and only there to tell the story of the chapter they once were, because it was asked for.

 

I'll rewrite it once I have a solid foundation on what I should write.

[Shinzaren]

I know what Deux ex Machina is, and I do try and vaoid it like the plague... I would tell you the backstory of this guy as well, but it's not relevant to the IT. Indeed, the whole sidebar is slightly unnecessary, and only there to tell the story of the chapter they once were, because it was asked for.

The problem is that it is necessary and relevant. You see, your traitor marines came from somewhere. It is important to know where. The Inquisitor doesn't need every single thing about him explained, but he does need a personality. You do need a better motivation than frustration to pull the crap he is trying to pull.

[Ace Debonair]

Huh, shows what I know. I confused rogue inquisitor with excomunicated inquisitor. :woot:

 

I know what Deux ex Machina is, and I do try and vaoid it like the plague... I would tell you the backstory of this guy as well, but it's not relevant to the IT. Indeed, the whole sidebar is slightly unnecessary, and only there to tell the story of the chapter they once were, because it was asked for.

The problem is that it is necessary and relevant. You see, your traitor marines came from somewhere. It is important to know where. The Inquisitor doesn't need every single thing about him explained, but he does need a personality. You do need a better motivation than frustration to pull the crap he is trying to pull.

Well, in fairness, I haven't got a genuine origin story for the Rift Lords, and they work alright. (I think. I might be biased, though :D )

 

But it's true, the Inquisitor does need a much better reason to attack some Astartes.

The obvious one is for the Wraiths to be commiting some form of genuine heresy, but how you go about that without plunging into chaos worship somewhere is a bit of a puzzler.

 

Unless they just naturally become disenchanted with the idea that the Emperor protects them, and basically percieve him as a worthless shell.

Although why they would let an inquisitor know that is a bit beyond me. ;)

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

After much consideration, I have decided to leave the origins as they were before the sidebar. I will expand on something else.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Reading the short story for the Wraiths of Darkness... I think I understand know why your mental images have never met up with mine. I made some minor but important edits (that is, I added a few sentences and reworded a few lines) that make what I'm thinking of clearer.

 

Tell me if you get just how far the Wraiths are spread out now. Tell me if you understand that they have gone from a chapter to a geneseed needing warband. I want to know if it's become clearer now