Grey knights against the new blood angels

[wizard12]

So I was reading a black templar squad where they were talking about what they had which gave them the edge over the blood angels codex units such as death company and mepthy.

 

So I start wondering what advantages the grey knights have over the BA.

 

So one the plus side...

- WS 5 army wide

- army wide relic blades

- army wide storm bolters

- ageis armour is protection against those uber BA psy-powers

 

And on the down side...

- lack of transport

- expensive (both cash and points)

- lack of any unit over WS5

- lack of heavy support and Fast Attack

 

Any other ideas on how we can better the blood angels? We are very flexible, and with the inquisition we get acess to cheap meltaguns/plasmaguns, with the possiblity of obital strikes and assassins.

 

Thoughts?

[ntgcleaner]

Cover the board with LR's and Termies... then wait... You should be able to assault anything they deepstrike if you are placed strategically.

[Verythrax Draconis]

I believe that a BA army would be far more lethal against the GKs with a more traditional build than those fancy new toys.

 

All new stuff they have are very powerful - but very point-expensive, in the same way as the GKs.

 

But the GKs have lists and wargear much better tailored to act as a small, expensive, tough-as-nails army.

 

Lots of psycannons, stormbolters and the rest of the GK bread and butter would fare very well against those one trick pony lists from BA, I believe.

[Gentlemanloser]

Stormravens, Magna Grapple Dreads, and Meph/Sanguinator.

 

We're going to have a rought time versus the BA.

 

Oh and fast moving Reedemer Baals will eat PAGK for breakfast.

[skarn]

Personally, I believe the DH have a better go against the BA than the SW, Nids and IG. The MC special characters are prime bait for IST PG drive bys, mystics help against deep strikers, table wide hoods limit the BA psykers and, as mentioned above, inclusion of the more expensive things will work in the GK favour.

 

The main thing that makes me nervous is the grapple dread TBH.

[Gentlemanloser]

Problem is, any army can have an INQ (or better IST melta squad) with Mystics and Hoods.

 

I'm looking forward to playing the BA army (our resident Marine player has got the Codex, but I've not had a chance to play them yet), but I can't see the DH army having *any* joy versus them. At all.

 

I fear FNP Terminators/2+ SG. The uber MCs will be inside Stormravens, until they drop out and eat whatever they touch. And I'm going to have a hell of a time popping those Stormravens.

[imukuni]

I played them in a 1500 pt game. My pure GK with 1 LR. His squad after squad jump infantry. I won every combat but 2 and every unit was in CC at one point or another. He survived the 1 round of shooting I had on him, but squad for squad I annihilated him, Dante was "running" not really just hiding, but was the only model left with 1 wound. The only KP he got from me was my GM, who started the game with 1 less wound.

 

Bad dice vs. Not too strong assault.

[Justicar Valius]

No they won't. They'll be in fast rhinos and razorbacks. They'll be awseome. A fast vinid, maybe some death company. If they have death company you can be sure they'll have a death company dreadnought with blood talons (eats any infantry like multiple relic blade captains with re rolls to wound). I have no idea about common HQs but u can bet 1 elites choice will be choc full of sang priests.

[skarn]

One thing I do see the BA doing is making me swap my LR crusaders for Godhammers to take out stormravens. Melta IST squads in rhinos can still take out the normal SM armour of course.

[Doomaflatchi]

I am simply concerned with any army that can improve the already extremely powerful Assault Terminators to have Feel No Pain. S8 2+/3++ w/ FNP? It's like trying to deal with Plague Marines on steroids.

[Red Lost Soldier]

I played a small game (1000pt) yesterday with a mix of Grey Knights and Space Marines and won. My opponent didn't have much of the flash new stuff though. Things I noted:

 

They are still T4 3+, without the priests (which my opponent didn't have any). So like GK they suffer from improved offensive abilities costing them points but not increasing their defensive capabilities. Even once you add the priests in, traditional marine counters such as Plasma and Vindicators are now even more effective due to smaller numbers.

 

Fast Vehicles are a massive pain. Essentially free smoke, in your lines faster, and even Whirlwinds become a pain to shut down as they can move 12" and still fire directly. Though they all seem to have left their searchlights at home?

 

The new fancy psychic lance power was too much of a temptation, forced my enemy librarian in close then he got power fisted by a tactical sergeant. Use it's short range to your advantage if you can with a juicy lure.

 

Basic, un-upgraded Grey Knights are still fantastic objective takers and holders. My 8 man unit crossed the board, using storm bolters on his marines, chased a combat squad of his objective and stayed there.

[Justicar Valius]

Guys, no blood angel player in there right mind would take a stormraven to a tourney, many won't bother converting one, and if it the same price as a valk many won't buy one due to how easy it is to take out! Seriously Lascannons, Autocannons, Missile launchers, assault cannnons, even the melta if you are that close still packs a deadly punch against the stormraven. Guard will eat it, the marines will it eat, Tau will laugh, Eldar won't have a problem. Seriously, the only reasons to get one would be for the rule of cool and They just want to make us pure DH sad.

[number6]

The deal with the storm raven's "effectiveness" is just the same as it is with IG valks/vendettas. Or Tau piranhas for that matter. The fact that certain vehicles are paper airplanes doesn't mean they aren't valuable and can't be put to good use. For IG, it's all about target saturation. Do you take down the vendettas or do you shoot at the Chimeras?

 

For BA, the storm raven would fit in a list that similarly saturates you with targets. Clearly that thing is a monster with a heavy payload, but what about all those FNP jump troops also bearing down on you? Could be a difficult choice.

 

I think people just need time to learn that effective 40K armies can never be build "grab bag" style, where you just pick what you like and put it on the table. There's definitely fun to be had that way, but focused and tuned armies are always going to be more effective. And to that end, the storm raven will work in some builds but not others.

[Justicar Valius]

For a large 200 points, which could be far too easy to take out, much better to have that fast vinidcator and some spare points or a couple of razorbacks, maybe a Baal Pred.

[Red Lost Soldier]

As a primarily Tau player, I've found an AV12 skimmer that has a 4+ save available every turn can be quite resilient to incoming fire. The usual remedy against Tau vehicles is melta however, which ceramite plating will reduce the absolute reliability of destruction.

 

The cost of a Storm Raven would only net you a single Vindicator and one Rhino from their codex, with no upgrades. Certainly not a Baal and a Vindicator.

 

It's possible for an army including one or more storm ravens to unleash a devastating alpha strike by sitting still first turn, in certain situations. That enables a great deal of S8 plus fire from one vehicle, as the vehicle comes with those 4 missiles, and the option for an Typhoon launcher on top of some of it's other weapons. Machine Spirit means possible two fragged medium to light vehicles per Raven in one turn, and as it's a fast vehicle the loss of one turn worth of movement isn't as devastating as something like a Raider.