Fire Dragons

[jjfelber]

How do you guys go about dealing with eldar firedragons?

 

I had a unit of 6LFs, a WG, and a Rune Priest.

 

He shot forward 24" in his wave serpent first turn. Granting it a +4 cover. On top of all the other protection eldar vehicles get (1d6 melta protection and nothing above Str12, and other crap I believe.) In other words they are very hard to shoot down. So the next turn he moves 6" disembarks and takes 10 melta shots against my unit. All that survives is the Rune Priest.

 

Next turn I drop my pod next to the unit and kill them all with 2 Hvy Flamers, but damn! I was none too happy. So I get a victory, but he wants a rematch. I can't turn down a challange, so I accept.

 

This time I believe he is going to bring 3 wave serpents each with 10 fire dragons! Thats 30 Melta shots! So he zips around on his viper bikes, and blasts away with his Wraithlord. Blowing away my tanks with Star Cannons. Then he meltas every model in my squads that just disembarked.

 

Whats a wolflord to do against these odds?

[clanfield]

land speeders turbo past them and next round hit em were it hurts, hit there rears the force field only works to the front,drop pod some grey hunters with flamers into there lines and disrupt the set up

basicly take the initative and make him react rather than trying to react to him just how i fight the eldar works a treat once the bodys start falling

hope this helps

[Ullr Direfang]

i agree to the drop podding a unit in with meltas for rear armor and stuff, but it also sound like you did get to go first which would of help a wee bit as well. Also one could try keeping things in reserve against such a list, i am not 100 percent sure of how it would work out but it could force him to change his tactics.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Keep in cover. Those melta's won't be anywhere near as awesome in cover.

 

Also, for the tanks, the "1d6dam, AT12 and max str" all only count for shooting. So if you can get a handy powerfist in there you will be getting multi attacks 8+ d6 penetration on AT10. Heck, even your normal Str4 guys stand a chance of glancing it. Once their ride is gone, those weaklings will be lambs to the slaughter.

 

(Still ... I have to say I wouldnt fancy going up against 30 meltas :D )

[Uncooked]

As an Eldar player the best thing you have is maneuverability, as clanfield said in #2 land speeders are always an option.

 

Fire Dragons are weak in combat, and with only a 4+ save on most of his guys you should def win the turn you assault.

Starcannons cost a lot of point on a wraithlord, and at only strength 6 the chances that he does damage to your rhinos/razorbacks is quite reduced. Make sure he tests for wraithsight on this wraithlord (if hes not within 6" of a farseer/warlock or 12" from a spiritseer then he may fail to do anything on a roll of a 1 for that entire turn).

 

Eldar are not built for wars of attrition, wear him down, take out the transports quick snap and kill his movement - its like shooting at guardsmen after that.

A unit of 6 Long Fangs with 5 Missile launchers should be able to deal with the transports no problem.

 

Get more cheap transports to sheild your units from fire dragons, if they blow up the tank everything else inside will still be pretty damn safe.

Get some jump Infantry, the quicker you can close in with him from cover and assault you beat fire dragons hands down.

 

A unit of fire dragon with all the upgrades is around 200+points, equivalent to a fully buffed grey hunter pack - expect things which cost the same amount of points to do the same amount of points worth of damage over the entire course of the game. bigger squads means better survivability!

 

Best of Luck and hope this helps

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

stay grouped up. use cheap units like wolves as a bubble wrap to keep the dragons at least 6+ inches away. use long fangs to pepper his tanks down.

[TiguriusX]

Get a Rune Priest with Tempest's wrath and welcome him with open arms

[TiguriusX]

And have this Feb 2010 official GW FAQ ready

 

Q. If models disembark from a transport into

dangerous terrain, do they take a dangerous

terrain test? Unlike Pile-in or Consolidation

moves, disembarking does not specifically states

that it doesn't trigger dangerous terrain tests.

 

A. Dangerous terrain says you test for every

model that has 'entered, left or moved through'

the terrain. As there is no exception in the text,

disembarking models do have to test. However, if

they disembark at the beginning of their move

and then move after the disembarkation, only one

test is needed, not two.

[KiltedMarine]

I actually played Eldar before coming to the light of Russ and the Emperor, so I know about this from the other side of the table.

 

Yes, he can certainly put together a 3 squads of 10 Fire Dragons list. If he does, though...

-he's using up his Elites slots completely

-he's spending a lot of points on a specialized unit

-he's NOT going to be able to hold objectives with those models

 

My advice is this: don't let his firepower intimidate you into making mistakes. Find his troops and kill them dead. He won't have many of them, after all, 'cause it sounds like he's hemorrhaging points on the FDs, the WL, etc. Counter mobility with mobility- nobody in your army should walk. If they have a transport, use it. If they don't, then unless they can pour firepower on a target in a torrent (i.e. they're within 12" for GHs), then they should be running or sticking to cover.

 

After his troops are dead, concentrate on killing the transports. After the transports, the units in the transports. Then, and ONLY THEN, go after the WL. Don't let the WL close; it will bog a unit down for multiple turns, and is totally not worth the cost trade if you do kill it. My good Eldar-playing buddy uses WLs as psychological weapons- they're (his words) "the singular best fire magnet in the game." It sounds like this guy is using FDs in something like the same capacity, only much less efficiently due to their cost.

[Grey Mage]

How do you guys go about dealing with eldar firedragons?

 

I had a unit of 6LFs, a WG, and a Rune Priest.

 

He shot forward 24" in his wave serpent first turn. Granting it a +4 cover. On top of all the other protection eldar vehicles get (1d6 melta protection and nothing above Str12, and other crap I believe.) In other words they are very hard to shoot down. So the next turn he moves 6" disembarks and takes 10 melta shots against my unit. All that survives is the Rune Priest.

 

Next turn I drop my pod next to the unit and kill them all with 2 Hvy Flamers, but damn! I was none too happy. So I get a victory, but he wants a rematch. I can't turn down a challange, so I accept.

 

This time I believe he is going to bring 3 wave serpents each with 10 fire dragons! Thats 30 Melta shots! So he zips around on his viper bikes, and blasts away with his Wraithlord. Blowing away my tanks with Star Cannons. Then he meltas every model in my squads that just disembarked.

 

Whats a wolflord to do against these odds?

Kill them.

 

Starcannons dont do much against tanks... theyre only Str 6. You probly mean brightlances... wich are strength 8.

 

But seriously... just stay in your rhinos, hell blow them up, youll laught, pass a couple armor saves, and then rapid fire and assault him.

 

They have NOTHING ELSE. Fire Dragons each have a meltagun... otherwise they get 1 attack S3.... woohoo. Just assault them, and watch them die. Also, in a waveserpent thats a 350pt squad.... so he wont have much of an army either.

 

So take two squads of long fangs, 2x ML/2xLC.... hit the waveserpents with the MLs to try and do what you can, hit the wraithlord with the lascannons, enjoy wounding on a 3+ with no armor save... itll go down like chucks mom.

 

Vypers can be taken out by your GHs plasmarifles, or heck even their bolter-fire. Theyre only AV 10.

 

And have this Feb 2010 official GW FAQ ready

 

Q. If models disembark from a transport into

dangerous terrain, do they take a dangerous

terrain test? Unlike Pile-in or Consolidation

moves, disembarking does not specifically states

that it doesn't trigger dangerous terrain tests.

 

A. Dangerous terrain says you test for every

model that has 'entered, left or moved through'

the terrain. As there is no exception in the text,

disembarking models do have to test. However, if

they disembark at the beginning of their move

and then move after the disembarkation, only one

test is needed, not two.

Wont matter, they dont fit the criteria- theyre not jump infantry and they didnt deep strike.

 

Models in say, a DP or a SR deepstrike in with the transport.... but Waveserpents and Falcons cant do that kind of thing.

 

Hell have no reall CC potential at 1500 and be hard pressed at 1750 with the list youve sketched for me. You should win without much more than a few dead transports and some light injuries.

[TiguriusX]

Wont matter, they dont fit the criteria- theyre not jump infantry and they didnt deep strike.

 

Models in say, a DP or a SR deepstrike in with the transport.... but Waveserpents and Falcons cant do that kind of thing.

 

Doesn't the wave serpent count as a skimmer? If TW is up and the skimmer moves flat out to come close it may crash and burn. If it makes a normal move and ends within range the transport counts the terrain as dangerous and difficult.

 

The argument for disembarking troops is not as clear cut but they are disembarking a transport that is in dangerous and difficult terrain.

[Grey Mage]

Wont matter, they dont fit the criteria- theyre not jump infantry and they didnt deep strike.

 

Models in say, a DP or a SR deepstrike in with the transport.... but Waveserpents and Falcons cant do that kind of thing.

 

Doesn't the wave serpent count as a skimmer? If TW is up and the skimmer moves flat out to come close it may crash and burn. If it makes a normal move and ends within range the transport counts the terrain as dangerous and difficult.

 

The argument for disembarking troops is not as clear cut but they are disembarking a transport that is in dangerous and difficult terrain.

Yes, the vehicle is most definitely a skimmer... in the whole codex only Warwalkers are not. The squads inside arent though... they dont fit the criteria. Deepstriking infantry in a deepstriking transport do, because they also count as having deepstruck.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Good point with the skimmers though. Murderous Hurricane would give the dangerous ground test.

 

The thing with this though - is that the eldar have that awesome runes of warding. 3d6 for psych test - fail it and you get perils. For me, this means it is just a waste of time trying psychic powers, because you stand roughly a 50:50 chance of losing a wound every time you do it.

[jjfelber]

The list I use is an allcomers, 2k tourney list. I am playing against all sorts of different lists.

This is my rough list.

 

2RP (in Long Fangs, LL JotWW / LL TW)

2LF units (3ML. 2 Las, leader, plus WG)

2GH units in Rhinos (9 Plus WG)

1 WG unit in DP (2 PA, 3 TDA, 1 Arjac)

2 Venerable Dreads in DPs(multi-melta, DCCW)

 

The list could be better I believe, with more GHs, but I don't have the models.