Blood angel Special characters

[chapter master 454]

Watching the Beasts of War's 'seven days of sanguinius' was great however they seem quite hard on some HQs while giving others a free pass almost. Here's a run down of what they said:

 

Commander dante: their favoured HQ and favourite by miles. His on target deep strike is considered extremely powerful with 5 sanguinary guard with infernus pistols. The mask is quite a good trick but thats all he is good for, he ain't any better than others and Astorath in my personal opinion would clobber him with the death company vs. sanquinary guard armies.

 

Astorath the grim: somewhat thought to be overpriced and doesn't have anything he SHOULD of, (still speaking in the way beasts of war do) however grant him that he is quite good but his points are over the top. They complain about him not 'controlling the black rage' but even for all their fluff preaching they don't remember that the black rage CAN'T be controlled. Personally I think he is a great character, his power weapon that makes any successful invunerable save re-rolled is a great character killer (I would even think twice about lysander facing this guy, I mean can I really the afford the possible 2-3 wounds he can cause me easily) while also making you (and your opponent's) blood angels more likely to get a bit of the red thirst.

 

Captain Tycho: They rate him as the worst. His rites of battle is considered a complete waste while his combi-melta with special ammo is suposidly even worse. Things only get worse for him when he becomes death company and thats where they really start hating him. Personally, the death company tycho is truthfully silly (why can't he at least join death company?) however his sane self is seriously worth it. He might not be a royal rear kicker but he adds enough from himself to be a decent IC. However, his name pronoucation is in question: is it 'tie-co' or 'tie-cho'?

 

gabriel seth: pointed as their 'best SC for points value' and thought to be born and brought from glasgow! They give him good marks for his str8 rending chainsword and his special rule that for every 1 you roll to hit him in close combat, you suffer an automatic str4 hit in return as this shows his 'giving them a glasgee kiss'! I agree with them on this character, he's good value.

 

mesphiston: called an ork-discrimanator and is wrongly called 'the most powrful psyker' he is a called a combat monster who suffers from a lack of joining units. He knows only 3 powers: jump pack, make himself str10 and re-roll to hits. He is seen as quite a terrifying foe to face in close combat but due to his inability to join a unit is a serious fire magnet and worth near on a land raider I believe. Like their views on him, agree with them except the 'Uber psyker of all time' line.

 

Sanguinor: this character owes them a new set of lungs because they broke their own laughing at this guy. Costing an army and a leg (hehe, see what I did there!) he is a seriously combatty monster. He can chisel down any opponent he faces without problem and even if he faces the head dude, he can have him selected as his main target to kill so he gets re-roll to wound and to hits on the guy. bundled with his eternal warrior and 2+/3++ saves he is considered near unkillable and unstoppable, armed with a jump pack he moves fast but does not have the IC rule, only fair I guess as this allows him to be targetted but I still wouldn't think him any better than lysander and would easily face these two off even he had selected lysander. I agree with what they say but I feel is quite nicely pointed and has some nice rules. The thing that killed them was the blessing, you need to watch their 'assault army list' on youtube to truely understand how much they laughed (however the aura for some reason took vengence and nearly did kill them).

 

The common complaint they had was 'wheres the eternal warrior?' which really did get up my nostrils, personally if you IC is getting hit by an lascannon or powerfist then what the hell are you doing? Well I would like to see what B&C thinks of their opinions and why some of their 'hated' characters are actually good. Thought I would do this because I think tactica astartes has been a little deprived of nice long threads for a while.

[Alkana]

I've used Sanguinor in every game since the BA codex came out. He's good. If you play smart, he can easily make his points back. Keeping a Priest near him makes him near unkillable, and the blessing makes a Sergeant as good as a Chaplain or Librarian stat wise.

 

I've been meaning to try out Astaroth, but his model isn't at my store yet.

 

Mephiston is good in theory, I haven't tested his abilities on the table yet.

 

Seth...eh, I'm not a fan. He seems more like a buffed up Sergeant than the Chapter Master. One power fist in a marine squad should be enough to drop him.

 

Tycho would be fun to use, and (IMO) Dante is kinda a one trick pony. He and a melta squad DS and pop a tank...then get shot up next turn. The mask makes it easier to take out HQs, which is nice.

[Hazard]

I still cant understand why the fork does Seth's wepon not ignor armor saves... A flesh tearer that usualy attacks vehicles?

[Captain Idaho]

I definitely disagreed that Mephiston is the most powerful psyker!

 

I believe they short changed Tycho too. He is a character for Blood Angels armies that are less assault based and more balanced "Codex" based, and in that he is pretty good.

 

Think The Sanguinor is pretty handy in games and fairly balanced for his points cost. I would love a character like this in my army sometimes!

 

The common complaint they had was 'wheres the eternal warrior?' which really did get up my nostrils, personally if you IC is getting hit by an lascannon or powerfist then what the hell are you doing?

 

I agree 100%. Plus, too many players put a large emphasis on the rules and their benefits, instead of how the rules represent a facet of the background. Eternal Warrior on Loyalist Marines represents either something almost supernatural or just plain pig headed stubborness blended with true grit, like when Captain Cortez disarmed an Ork Warboss with a twist of his torso after it became embedded in his rib cage!

[Justicar Valius]

Well Mephiston doesn't have eternal warrior, an invulnerable or Independant character. If he is EVER in the open you can expect me to be firing at him a lot. And the amount of Landspeeder typhoons we see these days, if he fails to cast his jump pack power (1/12 of failing I think?) you may well get a shot off at him. Heck a misjudged charge (half an inch off) could expose him to a melta to the face and you should be able to get a few wounds off with other stuff too. Shame he is I7, or he could expect a Grand master NFW in his gut.

[Xeonic]

Not having eternal warrior is a huge issue for say, death company tycho because he's not an independant character and is therefor totally unuseable(as far as I understand it, haven't read the codex).

I personally use tactical termies often, and a pfist in virtually every squad(though you can get around this in a limited manner). The list of things that can instant death T4 characters is fairly long, and special characters are a large point sink.

I personally see the decrease in things with eternal warrior to be a good thing, instant death shouldn't be something that only happens to generic ICs and ork nobs.

 

I don't see his attacks being not power weapon being a huge nerf when he's got a S6 rending chainsword. Yes, we've gotten used to every single character getting a power weapon, but it's not as massive a drawback as all that, I guess for me it would depend on how much he costed.

 

The real question is...

 

If vulkan had a 3+/4++, a combiflamer, and a rending chainsword would people still use him?

I would say yes.

 

Also isn't Tigirius supposed to be the most powerful psyker in the imperium?

[Grey Mage]

I liked Tycho, Dante, Seth, and Astoroth. They all seem to bring good, fun, and fairly powerful abilities to the table for their points.

 

Mephiston seems like asking to lose a good chunk of your army in the opening salvos, hed probly do better if you could put him in a stormraven... but theres no model for that as of yet, so I wouldnt touch him.

 

DC Tycho I think has serious issues.

 

Sanguinor.... I dont think is worth his points.

 

And Tigurius is one of the most powerful psychers in the imperium, not nessecairily the best.

[Xeonic]

Read the last line on page 86 of your marine codex, the bit speculating if he had tapped into the hive mind to predict tyranid movements. "...if this is true then Tigurius will have proved himself the most powerful psyker in the Imperium"

 

Okay, so I misremembered, but I would think that he's the most powerful psyker in the imperium in his unique field. Note that unlike Mephiston he knows all psychic abilities that a SM libby can have and he can use three per turn.

I'd say that makes him pretty qualified for the title.

[chapter master 454]

So far, DC Tycho is agreed to be completely un-usable becauses of the lack of IC rule. Oh and as a note, BoW seem unable to understand he is dead where clearly in two entries of fluff (and even his own entry page) state he has died...annoyance!

 

Mephiston is an easily killed target, heck I even faced him in a play test against tigerius. Tigerius always won as he had quickening (int. 10) and used might of anicents (str6) and when he landed just ONE wound he then used his third power to insta-kill mephiston. Yea, 5 wounds and T6 that ya big point sink (or we can bring in Khan for his wounding 6 insta-kill sword or sicarius with his 'lawlhax' attack).

 

Dante is by far the most over-rated of the SCs (I personally look at BoW lists and go 'I'll kick that units rear, thats target practice, thats somewhat threatening, I'll blow that to crap, I'll assault that') and along with it they down rate my personal favourite so far in the selection of SCs: Astorath the grim. He's a CC monster who I wouldn't even throw Lysander at because the risk of death is too high (and when you think about it, it normally takes an army to drop lysander and not a single SC). He can reach CC PDQ and even more so is that my units are more likely to get a bit of the red thirst (however I feel making it a buff when in fluff it's actually a bad thing, I wonder what they were thinking. Maybe something like if close combat occurs within 12" of this unit they must pass a leadership test or move into close combat closest to them).

 

I do think I'll be making a lemartes lead death company unit, something just says it's needed to be done (expensive but at least they can survive a bit better than vanguard...).

[Alkana]

Just so everyone knows, using Sang. in a 750 pt game is a bad idea. A very bad idea. Especially when your opponent is playing DW. Figured that one out today.

[Hazard]

Mephiston is an easily killed target, heck I even faced him in a play test against tigerius. Tigerius always won as he had quickening (int. 10) and used might of anicents (str6) and when he landed just ONE wound he then used his third power to insta-kill mephiston. Yea, 5 wounds and T6 that ya big point sink (or we can bring in Khan for his wounding 6 insta-kill sword or sicarius with his 'lawlhax' attack).

 

Meph is very vulnerable to all ID attacks but he does have means of defense against those: Initiative 7. Neither Khan or Siccarius will get to swing at him. Same goes for Tigirius if he fails to cast Quickening. IMHO he is a balanced SC - can kill most IC, MC and clear out low model elite squads in one assault phase. His downside is his vulnerablity to shooting and reliance on his high Int in CC. Sword of Sanguinius S10 also helps chop up vehicles.

[tahrikmili]

I think Tycho is very good, but a bit overcosted. I'll definitely use him in my Codex-y balanced assault/shoot army list instead of a regular captain, maybe. I'm currently building a counts as Tycho.

 

Combi-Meltas are a bitch to find and buy though.. that's what I'm stuck on.

[fireborncurtis]

i have played a few games against mephiston. as a salamander player my meltas dont leave any room for him to make any errors. even with his wings, 6 combi-melta sternguard with twin linked meltas make short work of him- especially when placed in a drop pod.

as he isnt an IC tyring to hide him becomes difficult. and its alot of points to throw away in the first turn!

.... saying that let him anywhere near your infantry and your in for a world of pain.

[Roachboy]

there is a plastic combi melta in the commander box...

[Xeonic]

And several metal sternguard have them, and the chaos termies and termie lord have them(different layout from loyalist though). Tycho has one too if you could be bothered to hack it off and work at rebuilding it.

 

They're not that hard to make though, if you have a bolter and meltagun lying around.

 

IMO, the nicest ones I have are just hacked up bolters and meltas. Easy conversion too, I just cut off the melta foregrip(pipes and all), barrel, and "fuel tank", cut off the bolter's foregrip, magazine, and barrel(easiest to cut in a straight line from the top of the foregrip acros the entire length of the bolter with a straight razor), replaced the bolter foregrip with the melta one, trimming it down exactly to where the pipe begins on either end. I then glue the bolter barrel in place at the direct top of the front of the bolter body, so that the barrel is in line with the ejector port, and glue the melta barrel on below it(will be at the extreme forwardmost end of the melta foregrip, attached directly to the pipe bit). Glue the "fuel tank" on the left side of the bolter in front of the ejector port, and glue the bolter magazine either directly over that ejector port or directly above it on the top of the bolter.

 

The end unit is about the same bulk as a normal bolter, but has a melta forgrip with the fuel pipe on it, and a melta fuel tank on the side. The melta barrel extends directly out from the foregrip like an underslung grenade launcher on a modern rifle, but obviously much longer.

Adding a supressor as a stalker boltgun also looks pretty nice with this conversion.

[Khorneeq]

Guys...

 

I just can't agree with Your opinions about Tycho.

I think he is great character if used in Death Company variant. The lack of IC status makes him unkillable until all other models in unit are dead.

When compared to Lemartes he is really a monster and of course an attached chaplain can further bump him up.

Cheers

[Grey Mage]

Im pretty sure DC Tycho isnt a squad upgrade... and so just cant join a squad of DC at all.....

[Mysticaria]

Guys...

 

I just can't agree with Your opinions about Tycho.

I think he is great character if used in Death Company variant. The lack of IC status makes him unkillable until all other models in unit are dead.

When compared to Lemartes he is really a monster and of course an attached chaplain can further bump him up.

Cheers

Right... Is there any reason for GW to make single model HQ units like this other than it being a printing mistake? I can't think of one.

 

When I first read the BA characters I thought they were all over the top, but not having IC makes a huge difference. I mean, these are 'named characters' who don't have the 'independent character' special rule. When you read the IC rules in the BRB it explains why some characters are more heroic and such and have to follow special rules as befits their status. I just can't see any named HQ not having this rule. It has to be a mistake. Right?

 

-Myst

[yodaid764]

Guys...

 

I just can't agree with Your opinions about Tycho.

I think he is great character if used in Death Company variant. The lack of IC status makes him unkillable until all other models in unit are dead.

When compared to Lemartes he is really a monster and of course an attached chaplain can further bump him up.

Cheers

Right... Is there any reason for GW to make single model HQ units like this other than it being a printing mistake? I can't think of one.

 

When I first read the BA characters I thought they were all over the top, but not having IC makes a huge difference. I mean, these are 'named characters' who don't have the 'independent character' special rule. When you read the IC rules in the BRB it explains why some characters are more heroic and such and have to follow special rules as befits their status. I just can't see any named HQ not having this rule. It has to be a mistake. Right?

 

-Myst

 

Not really. By NOT giving Mephiston IC, it actually makes him killable. If he were to have it, you could embed him in a squad for most of the game and pretty much never get a wound on him. His lack of IC means he can't join a squad and thus have "ablative wounds". It makes you play smater and is a significant challenge.

DC Tycho seems like a vague misprint at best. The spirit of things makes it seem like he sould be just as Lemartes...and add on. But without specific rules stating so, you will have to be inventive to make him work. Until the BA FAQ anways.