Understanding Librarians.

[7Thunders]

Up untill now,I have pourposely advoided the inclusion of a librarian in my army.

 

this is mainly because i really don't understand them. :huh:

 

This is what I am thinking: 5 sternguard +Librarian+razorback. Instead of using pedro.

I would kind of use this unit to ride around and special kill things. (I could use a rhino instead I suppose)

 

Anyways... I wanted to throw that idea at you folks for comments,BUT!!

I still don't quite get librarians :devil:

 

So what powers are best to choose?

 

Do librarians go well with any particular unit?

 

Is it' wort it to upgrade said librarian to Epistolary?

 

Basically,because I have so little game time in,I really need a primer on things like this.

I was told in the begining that librarians have a high learning curve,is this true?

 

thanks guys.

-7

[Xeonic]

Eh, there's a bit of a learning curve I suppose, but really it's best to just think of their powers as special abilities that require a LD test to fire/use.

As for the epistolary upgrade, it -can- be worth it espescially if you're shelling out for termie armor, but generally speaking you'll get the most bang for the buck out of a vanilla libby. There are a few potentially powerful combos for two powers in one turn, such as might+quickening, or gate+ avenger, or force dome and anything. ;)

 

His statline isn't strong as a captain, but the other thing that jumps out is the psychic hood. This is invalueable if your opponent deploys any psykers at all because it will annoy them and mess up their battle plan. Aww, farseer can't fortune? Daemon Prince can't warptime or lash? Good for you, bad for them.

Note that unlike a captain you can't just give him a relic blade and storm shield and watch him munch whole units himself, a libby is more like a scalpel to a captain's hammer, and a great support character to boot. Plus he's cheap and gives you psyker defence, which is always attractive. :)

 

First off, in power armor he comes with a pistol and grenades, perfect. His force weapon is a power weapon and as such gets +1A from his pistol, hooray! WS is fair for a marine IC, but not great, normal toughness, normal BS, two wounds... Nothing special here. No invulnerable save is the major downside :D . Of his upgrades, the shooting ones are pretty bad because you can just take a power to cover that for free, and you want the extra attack so the only viable one is the plasma pistol. Average BS and only two wounds makes that an unattractive option, but not terrible I'd say.

Epistolary lets him use two powers a turn. This is useful with certain combinations, but hardly needed 99% of the time. This upgrade makes him cost a massive 50% more, however it does allow you to cast quickening and force weapon someone to death at iniative 10. Tigirius can one up you there though and cast might+quickening and still use his force weapon, but it's a little silly for the points.

You can buy him a bike and put him with bikers, which is good, or you can buy a jumppack and put him with assault marines. I personally just stuff my libby in a rhino and call it good.

He does work in terminator armor as well, just note that he loses an attack, but he makes a good HQ to go in with assault termies or tac termies, in a raider or slogging respectively.

Strictly speaking a bike is probably the best way to get his hood where you want to go if you're just using him as a mobile hood though.

 

On to the powers:

Force weapon. This is basic stuff, you can instant kill someone with your force weapon as if you were using a power. This is great vs MCs that aren't eternal warrior and most ICs. It's worth mentioning that you won't use this that often.

 

Smite is pretty crap, you have a bolt pistol for S4 pre assault shots, I mean yea, it's AP2, but avenger trumps it for pre assault shooting powers.

 

Force dome is the only defensive power, it can be good for units that don't have an invuln, like honor guard, sternguard, vanguard, assault marines, whatever, make the unit as a whole more durable where there's no cover save or in CC. 5+ isn't very good, but it's not bad, it's basically a randomness save more than an inpenetrable wall of defence. Pretty good secondary power IMO, but not fantastic.

 

Machine curse is pretty decent actually, automatic glances are nice on really heavy armor like raiders or monoliths, I'd call this pretty fair, but situational.

 

Avenger, and here you go, this is the bad boy. S5 flamer template that's AP3. It's basically a man portable flamethrower that comes from the librarians brains and fries others. My favorite power by far and for sure the best pre-assault shooting he can do.

 

Quickening is useful but again situational, it lets the libby hit before anything else. Best with the Epistolary upgrade so you can either use it in conjunction with Might or force weapon to instant death some fool.

 

Null zone is another utility power that's situational, it allows you to force rerolls on anything that relies on a significant invulnerable. Great for daemons, seer councils, TH/SS termies(!!!), lotd, necron wraiths, among other things. Good, but mostly vs eldar and other marines.

 

Might is actually pretty fantastic. It's a relic blade upgrade, with 2d6 armor pen, that costs no points, brilliant. Irritating that BA get the same power only better, but that makes it no less useful. This is probably my favorite CC power.

 

Gate is another situational one, it can make a nice secondary power, but there's argument that it can or cannot teleport you out of combat so I personally stay away from it. A little risky, but you can use it to haul firepower around the board without need for a transports, perfect for sternguard teleport in hellifre bolt rapidfire, or moving tactical termies around. I call it useful, but again, situational, a good secondary power.

 

Vortex of Doom. The big kahuna. You drop the template and things die, however, it's a short range shot, that's a template(can scatter back on you!), and it is a heavy weapon, so you basically need terminator armor to use it properly. If you have your libby as an epistolary in terminator armor with a storm shield with assault termies(most likely to survive should he miscast or scatter back onto them as well) this is the best pre assault shooting power he can get, as it's a S10AP1 anti-everything monster.

 

EDIT: <Didn't give my opinion on where to put them.>

The best thing about the libby is that he can be put with any number of units. he doesn't have to be slapped in with assault termies to be effective, his wide range of abilities make him useful anywhere. Still, he is an assaulty HQ choice that can be nasty vs single tough characters and the like, so putting him with an assault element isn't a bad idea. He goes well with assault marines, where his flamer template can help to cook up some swarmy goodness. Vs a chaplain though the jumppack is an expensive upgrade and he doesn't support them nearly as well in CC as a chappy does. He can give assault marines or jumppack vanguard vets an invulnerable too, which is incredibly useful. On a bike he can accompany bikers(of course), adding in his not inconsequential shooty and assault powers. Note that he's relentless on a bike and so can take vortex of doom and remain mobile.

On foot, he can be put in with an understrength tac squad in a rhino(bad option), or more realistically, sternguard, vanguard, or mechanized assault marines. Since he can use his hood from inside a rhino, and use some of his powers, this isn't a bad choice. Pods are also viable here.

He can also be thrown in a raider with something killy, vanguard veterans, honor guard, or assault termies. His hood still works and you can leave him in the raider if you think he might die and give away a free killpoint. He can also debark from a seperate door, use might, and go after a vehicle or other target. With terminator armor you can finally give him an invulnerable save(storm shield for sure, you're already losing the attack so why not?) so he can debark with the termies, use vortex, and assault, with minimal risk of killing the entire squad he's with. In addition with a 2+/3++ he's all of a sudden quite surviveable in assault and so can use might effectively. In terminator armor he's also useful in with tactical termies, where he can gate them around to apply their firepower effectively. Also though I haven't tried it personally, a termie epistolary with a storm shield and gate deep striking next to a raider and opening up on it with vortex of doom, plus a pair of assault cannon is going to leave a mark.

[7Thunders]

DAAAMNN! ^_^

I've been givin alot to think about.

Cool.

I was thinking about the suggestion using the "gate" power to haul around some sternguard.

But Just how often does that backfire? cause if you roll doubles it says that the warp claims one guy.

 

Does this scatter your unit all over and get you shot to hell?

Also,would it count as moving and not allow the Sternguard to fire?

 

Which figure would be best to get from the GW site? I just might order him in the morning :D

 

I kind of liked the guy with the staff and book,but then he would not have any thing to shoot with ^_^

[Xeonic]

Ah, well the chances aren't bad, around a 17% chance to lose one guy, the scatter and deepstrike mishap possibility are bad though.

Deep striking counts as moving so the unit can rapid fire, but sternguard want to be rapid firing most of the time anyways, since it's twice the shots and they normally wound on a 2+.

 

Whatever figure you think looks best is the figure you should get. Give him a holstered pistol(if the model doesn't have one, but I bet it does) and you're golden. I personally have the model with the sword, and the space hulk libby who I play as a termie epistolary w/storm shield.

 

EDIT: It's worth noting that you can however run in the shooting phase after deep striking, either to get out of a bad scatter and into cover or to get into range for next turn of shooting, or out of assault range for that matter. When you deep strike your models are all clustered together and template bait so it's not always a bad idea, even for the range specialist sternguard.

[7Thunders]

Ya know i think I am gonna try this just for the hell of it. :D

leads me to one last question.

What about Varro Tigurius? I play crimson fists,

But Could'nt i use his model and rules as a "count's as" figure in my army and just re-name him

Bob bookworm? or something like that? :)

[Kinzel]

Yeah a big part of the intro for the special chars is allowing you to 'counts as' them which is cool so go right ahead. Plus if you can call him Bob Bookworm that would be awesome :tu:

[waaanial00]

If you look here you will find my thoughts on Librarian powers. In the main I only run a single HQ and it is almost always a Librarian, they are a great HQ choice for those like me who dont expect much but a bit of support from the HQ part of the army list.

 

Wan

[Jackelope King]

Start with the Psychic Hood. Best reason to buy a Librarian. On a Leadership 10 model, that's really nice psyker protection, and all of the new Codicies so far have some nasty Psyker options (with Imperial Guard's Psyker Battle Squads by far the weakest). This makes a Psychic Hood fantastic in an all-comers list.

 

Null Zone is the Codex: Space Marine power of choice in an all-comers list. Suddenly the rock unit your buddy brought to the table with 3+ invulnerable saves is dying twice as often. I usually pair it with The Avenger in an all-comers list: it gives me an edge over Seer Councils, TH/SS Termies, Marine Command Squads with SSs, Thunderwolf Cavalry (or Space Wolf Heroes on Thunderwolves) with Storm Shield and anything else that relies on an Invulnerable save to hang in there. The Avenger, I think, can be more or less interchangeable with Vortex of Doom, both throwing out powerful short-ranged shooting attacks.

 

Might of Ancients, in my mind, is sorta meh. It's a poor-man's Captain with a Relic Blade. You almost need to spend the points on Epistolary so you can both use Might of Ancient and the Force Weapon in one turns, and this is really only effective against multi-wound enemies. And most multi-wound enemies can and will open a Librarian open like a can of beans in close combat, and he's pretty expensive for a suicide unit.

 

Smite seems like it could be nice, but never is. Same with Force Dome and The Quickening. They just don't give you enough.

 

Gate of Infinity is a special case, because it's a gimick, and relying on it starts to border on LOLHammer. If you build your army around it, you're probably going to have a strange shooty army with unusual and dangerous speed in the form of Librarians teleporting Sternguard or Terminators around, and one bad roll will be disasterous for the whole, expensive unit. And it only gets more pricy when you gamble with more gimicky units to support it (like Scout Bikers, who steal away a precious Fast Attack slot and can't provide the anti-tank you normally get from these slots). I could maybe see this as an effective way to "speed up" a full drop pod army, but I'm not wholey convinced yet.

[Giga]

I run a barebones librarian with null zone and the avenger. I like to keep him in a land raider, accompanied by 5 th/ss terminators. A lot of the time he stays in the safety of the transport, only coming out when I want to avenger something, or when assaulting a weaker opponent.

 

The psychic hood is invaluable, especially in all-comers lists.

 

Null zone is absolutely awesome. Against armies and units that rely a lot on their invulnerable saves (daemons, zoanthropes, independent characters, etc.) it gives you a massive advantage.

 

The avenger is a beefed up heavy flamer that can cripple an entire MEQ unit in a single shot while still allowing you to assault in the same turn. A no-brainer, really.

 

Finally, in close combat, a barebones librarian is like a WS5 sergeant with a power sword. It isn't much, but it's a nice boost against units that don't have power fists.

[Sinister_Miles]

Why do people say that putting the librarian in a termi suit takes one attack away? He doesn't lose his force weapon and he gains something in the place of the other hand, so he never has a power fist, thunder hammer, or lightning claws? Or am I missing something? Anyways, sorry to be a necromancer or something, was just curious. Oh and on the topic of Librarians i had this question: If I use a bunch of drop pods with locator beacons, and then use a librarian with gate to deep strike within 6" of the drop pod, do they scatter?

[Giga]

Why do people say that putting the librarian in a termi suit takes one attack away? He doesn't lose his force weapon and he gains something in the place of the other hand, so he never has a power fist, thunder hammer, or lightning claws? Or am I missing something? Anyways, sorry to be a necromancer or something, was just curious. Oh and on the topic of Librarians i had this question: If I use a bunch of drop pods with locator beacons, and then use a librarian with gate to deep strike within 6" of the drop pod, do they scatter?

He loses his bolt pistol if he takes terminator armor. Hence, he loses the +1 bonus attack he gets from having two close combat weapons, and is therefore reduced to only 2 attacks base, and 3 attacks on charge.

 

Librarian can use locator beacons and should be able to use teleport homers too, IMHO, when using gate.

[glsn]

Locator beacons you can use, teleport homers unfortunately not. Gate's description does not say teleport and the teleport homer only works on teleporting units (not just deep striking).

[DerekLee688]

Unless you got a locator becon out, I vote no on gateing. Having such a large chunk of points and firepower left to scatter dice, misshap, and even the easy psy-test is making that element of your army unrelyable, and if that 250pt unit of sternguard takes three turns out of a 5 turn game just to get into firing position, there' probably not going to make their points back. If you got the emperor looking out for gate rolls, fine. A 35pt. rhino will save you alot of heart break though.

 

I treat my nakid liby as a super sergent/heavy weapon specialist/psy defence. I tag him along a full tac squad in LR, but I do that because I'm usualy heavy on the armor.

[mowglie]

Avenger + Null-zone is "the" combo. Occasionally Vortex + Null-zone if he has something to give him relentless (TDA or bike).

 

Take those by default, and only consider others if you have a specific reason.

[Jackelope King]

Locator beacons you can use, teleport homers unfortunately not. Gate's description does not say teleport and the teleport homer only works on teleporting units (not just deep striking).

Teleporter homer works only for Terminators Deep Striking onto the battlefield. Gate of Infinity-ing with a Librarian in Terminator Armor and a squad of Terminators are... Terminators Deep Striking onto the battlefield. Iffy, but not exactly cheesy. It even works fluff-wise (Terminator armor allows for teleports that work by... sending the Marine through the warp, which is exactly what the Gate of Infinity does). Either way, it's not something to lose sleep over.