Brother Captain VS Grandmaster

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Here is my situation. I'm building a Space wolf with GK allies list that I'm theme-ing to be GK.

 

I've got Njal as my HQ and I am torn between the Grandmaster with termies or the Brother Captain. BC lets me save points, which means more GKs, more SWs, etc.

Or I could take an IQ lord, and have my 4 termies be elites? (don't have my dex on hand right now to see if that is doable)

 

 

My question is, if I already have a heavy hitting HQ like Njal, do I need the beast that is the Grandmaster?

[KingDeath]

Go for a Lord with a psychic hood ( unlimited range, w00t! ), 2 mystics and some other henchman ( perhaps a gunservitor? ).

This will allow you to get some nice protection against deepstrikers and psychic powers "on budget".

 

That doesn't mean that GK terminators are bad, far from it!, but imo they work best with a GK Crusader which you cannot induct into your force.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Is there any major difference between a SW crusader and a GK crusader?

 

Also, I was considering the IQ as either my HQ or my Elite.

 

Question is, if my IQ was a Lord, would I need more Termy models to make up a squad?

[KingDeath]

Regarding the Crusader, the GK crusader can, unlike it's more recent version, always fire it's hurricane bolters.

Inquisitor Lords are always an HQ choice, the normal Inquisitor on the other hand is an elite choice. The problem is, the normal Inquisitor isn't that useful since he only has a leadership of 8 ( which makes the unlimited hood pretty useless ).

 

Regarding the Termies, 4 Terminators are enough for an elite choice squad ( in fact 3 is the minimum ).

Don't forget that the Termies cannot act as retinue for your Lord because he needs to take at least 3 henchmen.

 

So, for your SW force i suggest the Inquisitor Lord + henchmen as your HQ choice while the Terminators take an elite slot.

If you really want you could give them a SW landraider ( which should be legal, but don't nail me on it, i usualy play a pure DH force so my knowledge-fu about the allies rule is a bit weak ) to get the best out of them ( and yes, WS5 S6 attacks at normal initiative makes them winbots :P ).

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

I don't think I can set them at a transport? (still new to the game) but I could embark them onto it at start of game?

[KingDeath]

I don't think I can set them at a transport? (still new to the game) but I could embark them onto it at start of game?

 

That should be afaik possible, yes.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Excellent. I was really excited to try and include an IQ with 2 mystics so I could use that awesome rule to shoot down deepstrikers. (A friend pointed out my pretty landraider would die to a deepstruck dread with multi melta. I point out that a nearby IQ to let my LR get a multi melta shot at the DN before it gets to strike. He was a bit saddened by this :P)

[Justicar Valius]

Well the deep strike defence is an amazing thing. It is a shame you can't have the GM as he is my fave HQ in the game. His relic blade equivalent which is also a force weapon of the who cares about Eternal warrior vareity.

 

How many points are you playing?

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

its 1850 points. I CAN use him but it severely limits me compared to other options. I'm trying to be as efficient as I can with my points.

 

Edit: My proto list is over on the SW forums with the title GK+SW forces or somesuch. Its not very accurate as I miscalculated points costs.

[MayorDaley]

My buddy plays bugs,and I've frequently run an Inq Lord with psycannon, hood, with two mystics and two sages; parked by my LF pack. This allows me to shoot up those dumb pods, and if he brings The Doom the BS 5, S 6, no invuls, psycannon ruins him. Conversly, the GKGM is a beast in CC. Season to taste.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

How much does that lord run you in points? I'm really taking him for the ability to let something else do the shooting, though I might look further into other things the Lord can do.

[Gentlemanloser]

If all you want are two mystics, take them with an Elite Inquisitor (and a Rhino/LR).

 

As for GM versus BC, the only thing the GM is worth the choice for is if you want to Force Weapon an Eternal Warrior.

 

If that's not your main concern, take the BC.

 

You should also talk to your group about allied HQs. There's some, contention, about whether you get the 2 for 1 deal on HQ slots with allies...

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Like that I can't take 1 HQ as an ally or that if I take allies I could possibly get 2 HQs from the ally force? I'm not sure so much on the wording there.

[MayorDaley]

The aforementioned Inq Lord is 127.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Thats not too shabby. I think when I get home tonight and can use my dexes, I'll post up a couple lists featuring a BC, a GM, or an IQ Lord and see what you guys think will work best at the 1850 level for my army.

[Spacefrisian]

Regarding the Crusader, the GK crusader can, unlike it's more recent version, always fire it's hurricane bolters.

 

How wrong you are, peeps should read gw's erratas more often.

 

GK Errata

[Justicar Valius]

Well it has not been erratad by GW, and if it was wouldn't they be defensive weapons or something?

[Chengar Qordath]

Regarding the Crusader, the GK crusader can, unlike it's more recent version, always fire it's hurricane bolters.

 

How wrong you are, peeps should read gw's erratas more often.

 

GK Errata

The Errata does not change or remove the hurricane bolter special rule that GK Land Raiders have. There is nothing in the Errata that could be seen as implying that this special rule has been removed. The Errata clarifies that all Land Raiders have the Machine Spirit and Assault Vehicle rules since those rules got left out of the first printing of the Codex.

 

I always find it amusing when someone bursts into a thread to start ranting about how other people are wrong when it is blatantly obvious that they did not do the research.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Main thing that I am getting with a SW parent list is a Redeemer that I don't have to ask permission to take.

[stoopicus]

I would disagree with the above and say always take the GM over a BC if you anticipate they will get into CC at all, unless you are fighting against a really bad CC army. The advantages more than outweigh the cost difference - two more wounds, I5, force weapon, etc.

 

In other words, almost always take the GM.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Well the main thing is is if I was taking the GM as my main HQ and relying on him as the core of my army, he would be without a doubt worth the points. However, as a support to the Njal army, is he still the best option, or would a BC termy squad work almost as well since I'm hoping most of the attention will be on Njal and friends?

[Gentlemanloser]

The GM is hardly every a better choice than the BC. He costs far too many points for a medicore stat upgrade. Most of it is sunk into the Force Weapon.

 

And if you want a killy HQ, nothing compares to a WL on a TWM. 7 Attacks on the charge, with S5/I5 and potentially a 2+/4++ Save, always hitting on 3+, Rending or Power Weapon, and rerolls is > GKGM. Without the T5 or 12" Charge.

 

Unless you want to Force Weapon an EW.

 

Like that I can't take 1 HQ as an ally or that if I take allies I could possibly get 2 HQs from the ally force? I'm not sure so much on the wording there.

 

The arguement is that 'Leaders of the Pack' only apply to SW HQs. So if you take Njal, you can squeeze in another SW HQ in the same FoC slot but if you take an Allied HQ, that takes a full HQ Slot.

 

So in that case, you could only have 3 HQs (two SW and one Allied) total and not 4.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Ah, I hadn't noticed Leaders of the Pack before hand anyway :lol:

 

Would you suggest running the Wolf Lord with a termy retinue (dunno if he can take that, don't have my book on me) with storm shield and hammer termies/LC termies and then use my GK termy models for elite choices?

[Gentlemanloser]

The only thing you can attach a WL on a TWM mount to is either Fenrisian Wolves, or TWC. Fenrisian Wolves suck. Big time! :lol: (and lower the average T back to 4)

 

TWC are awesome, but can cost an equivalent amount to a Terminator, if you buy them all Storm Shields (Cheaper point for point than SM Termies if you keep them bare).

 

It really revolves around what sort of list you want, and if you want to sink points into a 'Deathstar'/Uber hammer unit.

 

Some folk have luck with the WL running solo. I always use them to give a TWC squad Ld10 for anti pinning. :P

 

GKT are great. They truley are. But delivery will be thier problem. As usual, you have to stick them in a LR. Can't DS them (with accuracy) in a SW list, as you can't really get any Homers/Locator Beacons.

 

I don't think I can set them at a transport? (still new to the game) but I could embark them onto it at start of game?

 

If you have a FoC slot Transport, you can start with GKT embarked inside (even a SW LRR). It's only Dedicated Transports you can't, and would have to embark first turn (as long as it's not DH/WH/BT/Etc Dedicated Transports, who remain dedicated...)

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

ya I've got 2 heavy support slots filled with Landraiders.

 

My list so far includes

2 Grey Hunter squads at 10 with Meltas.

1 Long Fang squad with 2 las, 2 missile, and 1 plasma cannon (the cannon is iffy)

1 LRR

1 LR Godhammer

1 Squad of GK w/ either 2 psy or 2 incinerators at 5 GK+1 Justiciar.

1 Squad of 4 GKT (thats only models I have, though I have an assault termy pack that I've converted some SS/TH termies out of)

and Njal.