Wolf Guards Lost tempers.

[Legacy]

So i was thinking....other than throwing a wolf priest with some blood claws in a land raider, what would happen if some wolf guard in PA got really peeved and decided to take the young pups place instead?

 

lets do a comparison

 

Fully loaded BC's:

x15 blood claws = 225

x1 meltagun = 5

x1 power fist = 25

toal = 255

 

Wolf Guard, Pimped:

x10 wolf guard in power armor = 180

x10 power weapons = 100

total = 280

 

Wolf guard have better WS and BS and have 1 more attack then the claws. All power weapons. The claws have the Berserk charge rule, lower WS and BS, power fist less power weapons.

 

The only down side is the wolf guard not being able to capture points. but when the raider brings these guys up to things to murder its face, why bother with the extra troop choice? the other grey hunters should be enough.

 

 

Brothers, strategize with me. What do you think about this plan? instead of using blood claws, use Wolf guard with a WP in a raider. I am aware of this combo being a large point sink.

[clanfield]

i wouldnt put a melta with blood claws or a power fist for that matter due to there low skills and the cost of said items

i run 9 claws in a rhino with a wolf priest (focus infantry)in a rhino for 270 points

it do do well

[ralkass]

First of all, Hello brother! :mellow:

 

Then yeah... I'm not a big fan of Land Raiders or Blood Claws. I prefer Grey Hunters in packs of 9+WG or 5+WG in Rhino or Razorback. I prefer using skyclaws with mark of the wulfen and flamer with wolf priest (preferred enemy: infantry) and a wolf guard with power fist :P

 

However... counting points-effectiveness I can guess:

 

15x blood claws with that configuration are more or less 60 attacks on 1st turn of assault

10x wolf guards => 40 attacks on 1st turn of assault

 

Blood Claws have 33% of more attacks and if you attach them a wolf priest you have 60 re-rollable attacks against your preferred enemy and they are a little cheaper.

 

Finally an entire pack of wolf guards is vulnerable like grey hunters or blood claws and, like you say, does not count as scoring troop, so yeah, they open new roads where they pass, but they could be the main target of your opponent (due to and raider might and full-power-weapon-gear) and be less effective than you thought.

 

Anyways, try your tactic and let us know how it worked for you, I was just guessing around!

 

'night

 

-d

[Legacy]

I will try it and let you guys know, but right now you make lots of sense. with the list i have going as well, it seems like the WG will be the hammer to this list and take lots of fire. I have a game on tuesday I'll use this list and see how it goes. i dunno about it but yeah:

 

Wolf priest

runic wolf necklace

 

rune priest

chooser, runic (living lightning, storm caller)

 

rune priest

runic (storm caller, geri/freki)

 

10x wolf guard

10x power weapons

 

9x grey hunter

wolfen, standard, melta, powerfist, rhino

 

9x grey hunter

wolfen, standard, melta, powerfist, rhino

 

Land raider Redeemer

 

Land speeder typhoon

 

Land Speeder

heavy flamer, multi melta

 

1840

[eyeslikethunder]

why not take the land raider as a Dedicated transport for the wolf guard? will help with reserves missions

[captain fabian]

Yes but 15 crazy berserkers charging out of a meat-eating tank wanting to prove thenselves or die trying sounds more fun to me!!! I'll take it.

[eyeslikethunder]

against MEQ

Wolf guard

40 attacks 30 hits 15 wounds

BC

60 attacks 45 hits 22.5 saves 7.5 wounds (presuming no fist)

 

so they will do better but may need two targets to make it worthwhile so you could probably lose a PW or a few and maybe mix up a weapons or two for versitilty

[littlbitz]

Interesting idea, I must admit I have thought it over before.

 

I really like the idea, but I think it would be best in a list based around Logan Grimnar.

 

With the example list you posted, I think you may suffer from a lack of Anti-tank ability.

 

I am also worried about you only having 2 Troop selections, which sends me back to the first point.

 

So, lets look at the pros and cons of your concept with the list you've posted.

 

Pros:1. Wolf Guard are cool,2. any infantry they hit they will pretty much decimate,3. while expensive the unit isn't overly priced especially considering the amount of wargear you have in the mix

 

Cons:1. the Wolf Guard unit is not scoring thus reducing you to just 2 troop choices. This makes the list fragile. 2. While you do have them in a Land Raider, the Wolf Guard themselves are only good at one thing, anti-infantry we have some of the most flexible units in the Universe, why not mix up the weapons a bit? 3. The whole unit says "Shoot at me, please" While this isn't really all bad, if that Raider gets popped early you may be in trouble.

 

Now, I see you still have 10 points left! that can buy some cool stuff.

 

Most of the problems I see with the list in general can be "fixed" without really changing the feel I think you are going for. The real problem you are going to run into with 10 Power weapons in the pack is that its over-kill.

Without messing with the HQs I would change the Wolf Guard to look something like this...

 

10 Wolfguard 5x Power Weapons and Meltabombs, 4 with Comb-meltas, and one with a Bolter and Power Fist. This uses up those extra 10 points, you still have 20 Power Weapon attacks on the Charge plus the Wolfpriest and re-rolls!

But more importantly you will do 2 things to your list, 1. you add considerably to your Anti-tank ability without sacrificing anti-infantry power and 2. you double the packs range to 24" with 5 Bolters should the Landraider get popped early.

 

This also gives you lots of flexibility with your Wolfguard, you can add the Combi-melta guys to the GH packs to spread out the Melta love if you need to hit multiple armored targets with certainty (Mech/Vet, and new BA come to mind)

 

The other thing I would really consider is swapping out the Rune Priest powers a bit. I would really have Living Lightning on both. This will add considerably to your long range fire power with you are really lacking now. Rhinos just are not fast enough, and if you run into a Mech eldar list that stays away from you, it will cause you serious problems.

I would consider the following for the RP, 1. Living Lightning and Stormcaller 2. Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane

That will also assist you with against those Horde armies.

 

I know it seems that I may have gone off topic a bit. But I feel that we can't really discuss the merits of your idea without discussing the list as a whole and how it will work in conjunction with the rest of your army.

[Legacy]

Thanks to you Brothers for the replies! Ale on me!

 

@littlbitz: To be honest that was the exact reason why i posted the whole list in the second post. I didn't feel i would get what i needed without everyone seeing what the WG had supporting them. Not gonna lie. I'm running the Wg right towards at least 1 troop choice, To even the playing field with the troop difference.

 

Originally this idea came from a WolfWing i was testing with, but i didn't really want all those termies so i put the WG in power armor and then found the idea od using them as a blood claw replacement. Taking all of your sugestions as I should i think i will switch the list over to 4 combi-meltas, bolter, and x5 pw. i knew when looking that i had no real good punch to get through tank armor, but i usually do well with my speeders. (not a good excuse i know). Also for tank wrecks and explosions you are allowed to continue shooting at the unit inside and assault them after the tank has been exploded? The seems awesome to me. Combi meltas force the enemy out of their armored cell, and then go in for the 20 power weapon attacks rerolled for the wolf priest. not to mention a flame from the redeemer.

 

Rune priests Seem to do a good job of keeping my rhinos alive with storm caller but I'll swtich them up with time and protect one with real cover more, maybe drive it behind the raider for closest objective, then look for cover near there.

 

@eyeslikethunder: Thanks for the mathhammer on the WG VS BC. and yeah the Raider is for the WG just forgot to add it on to them... my bad. The mathhammer on the Wg will be different now with the 4 combis and the bolter, but we'll see how it goes.

[Silverwolf]

Pretty sure you can't kill a transport then assault the troops inside it that come out when it destroys. They're seperate units, and you can't assault a seperate unit from the one you were shooting (unless I'm forgetting some loophole in the Rule Book that allows you to assault a seperate unit if the one you were shooting is destroyed?).

 

I like the idea, I've been looking at it myself though with a different spread of weapons and an even bigger point sink, but then I usually play at around 2500pt ;). Ragnar + W.Priest + 10x PA WG. 5x W.Claws, 2x C.Melta, 3x S.Shield / M.Bomb. Very expensive, but very nasty ;). Doubtful something I'd use in a tourny game (unless playtesting whos it to be ridiculously effective), but something to make people go "oh dear god, KILL IT" in store games ;).

[stinkenheim]

@ legacy, if a tranpsort isdestroyed then the unit can charge te occupants, they cannothowever shoot at both the transport and the unit that is forced to disembark as the units shooting is done at the same time. a second unit can however shoot the disembarked troops.

to me though, the unit is too expenisve and too fragile. mix the weapons about a bit, have some with no upgrades and chuck in a couple of storm shields to aid survivability.

[Legacy]

I shall remember that. I just figured if the tank was taken as a dedicated transport and is counted as a kill point WITH the squad(being squads wargear), it should be one unit and assault-able after it has been wreaked.

 

But i supoose i will have just stick with penatrations from an outside source, then charge in with the Wg.

[stinkenheim]

iirc transports are seperate units for things like kill points. i know they are treted seperately for things like Dawn Of war dmissions, where you can only deploy two troop units, and a transport will count as one of them.

 

yeah if you can pop the transport with a different unit then unload your wolf guards shooting into the now vulnerable unit. don't be afraid to prioritise thesooting though, if there is something that the long fangs alone are in position to deal with then simply pop the transport wth the wolf guards meltas and charge the occupants, chances are the will destroy whatever they come into contact with without the extra round of shooting.

[NealSmith]

No codex handy, but don't the BCs get 75 dice the first round if attacking? They can't shoot and that's why I wouldn't bother with the meltagun/plasma pistol/plasma gun for them.

[Karack Blackstone]

and a wolf guard with power fist :)

-d

 

Shortened it to address one area of your post.

 

I was under the impression WG can't be joined to anything outside the list in the back (army list entries) for WG saying what they can and can't join in bold.

 

I did not recall seeing Skyclaws under that list, sadly. I wish it were the case and I don't like having to point this out, unless the new FAQ says otherwise. If so, I'm very interested in this link if you have it.

[Nevyen]

To add somthing to this discussion I run the below a bit in 1500 games:

 

 

Wolf lord

frost w, runic, belt of russ

 

WG x 4

2x pw 2x Lc

 

Wolf Priest

plasma pistol

 

LR Redemmer

multimelta

 

 

6 GH

MOW melta

Razorback Twin linked heavy flamer

 

6 GH

MOW melta

Razorback Lascannon twinlinked plasma

a

6 GH

MOW melta

 

Rune Priest Living Lightening, Murderous Hurricane

Rhino

 

 

Predator AC 2 x HB Storm Bolter

 

Dreadnaught

Assault Cannon

Heavyflamer

 

1500 points

 

For the most part it has worked very very well against MEQ armies and even armies with HIGH antitank.

 

Came 2nd in a local comp with the list.

 

The WG in PA work very well, and its hard to change them out for Terminators though I could.

This list also works well with Ragnar by dropping the priest.

 

But I like the re-rolls tbh.

[lunchb0x]

i wouldnt put a melta with blood claws or a power fist for that matter due to there low skills and the cost of said items

i run 9 claws in a rhino with a wolf priest (focus infantry)in a rhino for 270 points

it do do well

 

 

I would strongly disagree with you on the no power fist.

 

The roll pretty much a 4 no matter what, and the charge bonus makes 3 power fists swings...worth it.

[Logan230]

i wouldnt put a melta with blood claws or a power fist for that matter due to there low skills and the cost of said items

i run 9 claws in a rhino with a wolf priest (focus infantry)in a rhino for 270 points

it do do well

 

 

I would strongly disagree with you on the no power fist.

 

The roll pretty much a 4 no matter what, and the charge bonus makes 3 power fists swings...worth it.

 

i agree with the no PF, while yes they get 3 on the charge, after that it is just one. in my opinion, if the squad cant kill it in one turn, dont target it. on the dont target list i include things like: MEQs, and squads that are == or bigger than it. unless it is IG. in my experience, BC of any type dont grind well, and that is where they die

[Race Bannon]

I agree with Logan on the tactic: target the unit they can kill to win. Otherwise, the BC are going to have a tough time in round two. With the prevalence of vehicles in 5th ed, a PF, if not MB, is a must.