Havoks!

[the jeske]

than 3 Lazcannon shots from blitz,

only oblits are not used in 3 man squad. they are used in 2x2 . 3x2 and 3x3 but that like 2250 games more and in those autocanones realy start to suck ,because the number of targets goes up [both high AV , horde etc ].

 

 

And they are cheaper than blitz,

4 oblits cost less then 2 units of 8 havocks.

[Muskie]

*plays the Devil's Advocate*

 

for 145pts you have 5 Marines, 4 Heavy Bolters, Icon Chaos Glory, which makes 12 shots, 8 hits, 5-7 Wounds

Static unit with medium range and it is easily neutralized. Depending on terrain it can be avoided entirely.

 

for 165pts you have 5 Marines, 4 Auto Cannons, Icon Chaos Glory, they make 8 S7 shots at 48" range, great for blasting transports that are all over 5th ed

Better than the above due to increased range, but suffer from the same limitations.

 

They can also grab Rockets for anti-MEQ / blasting away Orks

A smart Ork player will space out his models whenever possible so that frag weapons and the like won't be as effective.

 

I'll agree Lascannons are way overcosted on them, but I just don't see why I never see them on other player's tables. So, does anyone else use Havoks?

Lascannons are overcosted, as are most of their other weapons (and the icons in particular). I do sometimes use Havocs myself. I field either the assault variant (4 flamer deathsquad in a Rhino with a fist champ + combi), or as a 6 man squad with 3 Autocannons.

 

Please see this topic for more discussion on Havoc usage.

 

There is also few more topics on using Havocs:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t&p=2256770

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t&p=2196205

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t&p=2176127

 

I tried the last two years to make Havocs work in a 1500 point list and although some games they do alright, the fact they can't move and shoot is killer. I can get HW in tacticals or elites, but the only way to get move and shooting heavy weapon support pretty much is your heavy support choices. Loyalists have the Razorback and heavy weapons in their Fast Attack choices, but Chaos does not. You need that move and fire heavy weapons especially in some missions like they have Astronomi-con.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

I nearly always field at least one or two units of havoks, I haev 10 man squads, 4 plasma and a rhino. can be expensive i guess but against the mostly MEQ armies i face they can be extremely effective too. Plus i just love plasma so the fact i get to field 4 Plasma Guns in a squad is enough for me to continue taking them even when they fail to do much.

[Vlâdvar The Destroyer]

in a 1500 pt game I tend to take a squad of 8 havocs with 4 missle launchers & Icon of Chaos... the 8 men means you've got less chance of loosing you heavy wepaon dudes & I find that 4 missile launchers are pretty damn good

 

Although recently I've been using 2 lots of 2 Oblitirators as an Iron Warrior player, I love these guys, yeah the minis are abit heavy & expensive, but they do the job!

[BrotherMoses]

I always thought havoks were one of the cooler things chaos got. Can't you kit them out with a bunch of special weapons?

[the jeske]

but you can do the same with chosen and get infiltration with the same gear . in fact Am wrong her , chosen will have 1 more special weapon .

[HellHoundLord]

My last 2 games I've used a unit of 5 Havocs with a Rhino kitted out with M/L's. And honestly they've done well by me. Nevermind that fact that I play them for fluff's sake more than anything else. (my warband has very, very few oblits and no heavy armor at the moment) So I tend to go for lists with alot of boots on the deck.

 

Math hammering aside, I've found Havocs to be useful. Yes, your opponent can spread his troops out (any good CO should), or move a good target out of range or into cover. But sometimes you have to play against your opponent's mind more than his troops. Sure, the odds of 4 krak missiles trashing his beautiful Ball Predator's prow aren't great stats-wise, but by moving said tank into cover or out of range he is denying himself use of a valuable unit. I've noticed a large number of players babying their pretty tanks and such. They want to do that, great! Gives me more opportunities to thrash that over-gelded pretty boy of a leader.

 

Besides all that, I've noticed that Oblits tend to attract alot of fire. Mainly because they are so versatile. If your opponent thinks that Havocs are worthless, he may ignore them long enough for you to really cause some damage.

 

 

...anyway...my 2 thrones worth

[the jeske]

Sure, the odds of 4 krak missiles trashing his beautiful Ball Predator's prow aren't great stats-wise, but by moving said tank into cover or out of range he is denying himself use of a valuable unit

the tank has scout and moves 18 per turn . It is realy hard to not break los to a single havock unit [or flamestorm it if the BA player has turn 1].

 

Besides all that, I've noticed that Oblits tend to attract alot of fire.

but your using your rhino walls to LoS block incoming fire , they should have less incoming fire then a static unit that stands far away from your army.

[HellHoundLord]

@ jeske: I just used the Ball predator as an example as it was the most recent one in my head. And yes, that 18" move is nice...not so much in a dense cityscape. The game was closer to the block-war scene out of Judge Dredd (cripes I'm aging myself there) than anything else. We had troops on the 4th-6th floors of at least 4 buildings. (6'x8' table, buildings were 6"x6" to 12"x12" and we had as many as we could squeeze on the table with 6" between them")

 

As for using a Rhino for cover for Oblits...why in the Eye would I want to do that? All my troops choices are in Rhinos, so why would I send one back so some slow moving Oblits can play Turkey peak?

[the jeske]

The game was closer to the block-war scene out of Judge Dredd (cripes I'm aging myself there) than anything else. We had troops on the 4th-6th floors of at least 4 buildings.

then you played in a city fight table/scenario most games are not city fights. most games are also 4X4 or 4X6 , so the tables you played on were a lot bigger then what is played most offten.

All my troops choices are in Rhinos, so why would I send one back so some slow moving Oblits can play Turkey peak?

what do you mean by send back ? oblits dont stand back . you move them with the rest of the army . they move d6" and then the wall moves in front of them [12"] leaving LoS only to the target[best case] or at least to minimize the incoming fire[what happens most offten. If you try to put oblits or any other hvy support unit be it a pred or a 5 man havock squad without LoS blokcers then the unit is dead turn 2 max against some armies sooner.

 

also the fact that my opponent has to counter the wall [while at the same time thinking about the DPs and the guys inside] means there is a bigger chance of error or some crucial roll failing . each time he has to reposition his army to counter my oblits/DPs etc he is playing my game and not his . Offten some units even if they try may not have los to oblits and then my opponent has to pick targets he wouldnt want to shot at or it leaves my oblit to shot one turn more. And before you ask yes in most of my games that dont end up in total massacers of my opponent oblits and DPs die in the end . But I would rather win the game and lose those units , then have units that will surivive but do nothing sometimes[and when they do something they dont do it very well , breaking up the point composition of the army].