Stormbrow II Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 *note... you move forward 24", drop him off just behind the flight stand, move 2" to the side, and then assault 6".... Is it risky? It could be, depending on the board. Is it very powerful? Most certainly. You clearly didn't pay attention to my post. You cannot assault if you disembark after the Stormraven has moved flat out. Meph in a Raven has a max range of 26" - 12" plus disembark 2" plus Fleet D6 plus Assault 6" (brainfart: can't remember if you can fleet after you disembark or not), 20" if you can't fleet. Again, we can't take things in a vacuum - if you have heavy weapons and you aren't shooting at the Raven you deserve to have Meph eat your babies. If you can't shoot it (i.e. in Reserve) then stay outside of the Raven's operative range. You should count yourself lucky that your opponent is willing to restrict one of his most powerful unit's mobility in order to keep it alive by shoving it in a troop carrier tbh. I've no problem with the Raven at all - people whine about it having Ceramite Plating but that doesn't help it very much from CML or Lascannons from 38" away, or if it's closer then you can pummel the troops that fall out of it when you down it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2360812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 You cannot assault if you disembark after the Stormraven has moved flat out. Actually not to be confused, but units/models/squads in any vehicle that has moved Flat Out may not disembark, unless said vehicle or unit has special rules allowing them to (like the Storm Raven, Valkyrie or Vendetta). You cannot Assault after disembarking from a transport unless the vehicle is open-topped, or has special rules allowing you to (like the Land Raider/Storm Raven Assault Ramps). As a technicality you aren't "disembarking" from a Storm Raven that moves Flat Out. You're Deep Striking out of the Storm Raven (and it has rules covering this). Raven has a max range of 26" - 12" plus disembark 2" plus Fleet D6 plus Assault 6" (brainfart: can't remember if you can fleet after you disembark or not), 20" if you can't fleet. Yea Mephiston out of a Raven has a range of 21" - 26" if he intends to charge (see my post above). And you can Run/Fleet after you disembark from a transport. A Fleet move is literally treated as a Run move with the caveat that you can then Assault afterwards. And a Run move is done in the Shooting phase in lieu of Shooting. So as long as your unit can Shoot, it can Run (and thereby Fleet). Whether it can Charge afterwards is affected by other things... DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2360823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRaptor93 Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Hey all, SO ITS NOT TWILIGHT: Dealing with the Blood Angels Rule 1337 - If Thou doth encounter Mephiston rushing thee like a crazyman, hide behind a tree and deliver several KICKS OF RUSS into thy opponents power armoured crotch region until he does drop to thine floor, eyes crossed. Nah, i'd say go Longfangs and bombard him until he stops twitching ;) Thanks, BlackRaptor93 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2360856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 *note... you move forward 24", drop him off just behind the flight stand, move 2" to the side, and then assault 6".... Is it risky? It could be, depending on the board. Is it very powerful? Most certainly. You clearly didn't pay attention to my post. You cannot assault if you disembark after the Stormraven has moved flat out. I dont see where your getting that at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2360888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 It's essentially a couple rules coming into play. The Storm Raven has an Assault Ramp, meaning that units inside that disembark may then launch an Assault (akin to a Land Raider...essentially the Raven is a flying Land Raider...Red Bull...Gives your Raider's Wings...) However, the rulebook also stipulates that any vehicle that moves faster than Cruising Speed (re: Flat Out, or 12.1"+) may not shoot, and embarked units may not disembark (nor may units embark into it). So units inside a Storm Raven that has moved Flat Out (being a fast skimmer it can move up to 24") may not disembark from the transport "normally" (through the Assault Ramp or any of the access points/hatches). HOWEVER, the Storm Raven also has a special rule whereby if the vehicle moves Flat Out, units inside (including the Dreadnought) may be deployed via Deep Strike, with some special caveats: - They unit(s) must be Deep Struck on a point that the Storm Raven has moved over - If the unit(s) scatter, every model takes a Dangerous Terrain test And as per the normal rules, any unit that Deep Strikes may not launch an Assault in that same turn (unless they have special rules allowing this...as far as I'm aware only Vanguard Veterans with Heroic Intervention, and the Lucius Pattern Forgeworld Drop Pods allow Deep Strike + Assault). SO units in a Storm Raven that has moved Flat Out may "disembark" via Deep Strike, and are thus unable to Launch an Assault. Note that this does mean you can Heroic Intervene Vanguard Veterans out of a Storm Raven and get them into an assault without having to rely on a Reserve Roll (risky if you lose the Storm Raven though) and with the support of a Dreadnought. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2360901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 You could also blast that BA army away and than focus on Mephiston. No single model can withstand the might of a true wolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2360902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbrow II Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Thank you for explaining that DV8. You got there before I could. @Spacefrisian: Yes. Just blow away the transports/vehicles and he's got nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2361021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Vangaurd Veterans wouldnt work- they can only do that when coming in from reserves as per their rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2361076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Wolf lord w/SS and a TH accompanied by 2 wolves and attached to a 10-15 strong fen wolf pack. Assuming that you have a decent amount of dogs with you when the fight comes you should win the battle of attrition. Barring that you should get at least one wound which will put him at I1 and worst case you kill each other. With the cost of things in the BA codex there are going to be some gaps in your opponents army if he is taking mephiston. How does this prevent Meph from just targeting you (an IC in close combat) and smoking you outright with his higher initiative force weapon before you even get a chance to hit him with your TH? 1. He can't target your IC if he's already in assault. 2. or y'know, saga of the bear. I should add I believe a wolf teeth necklace and Saga of the Bear are critical. If you make your saves with your SS, survive, and hit him back, you will have hurt him pretty dearly. If he was tangling with some Grey Hunters before the Lord moved in, then he's dead. No question. If it's mephiston vs wolf lord, and there's a second round of combat - which I think is likely, as destroying a 3 wound Eternal Warrior with a storm shield is pretty hard - BOTH initiatives are now 1 because of the Storm Shield, and you will probably kill him. You might die too on the second round, but whatever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2361137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 How does this prevent Meph from just targeting you (an IC in close combat) and smoking you outright with his higher initiative force weapon before you even get a chance to hit him with your TH? 1. He can't target your IC if he's already in assault. 2. or y'know, saga of the bear. Assaulting Mephiston with any type of HQ led unit is asking for trouble. HQs have to be in base contact with Mephiston to attack him and they will be shredded before their turn because Mephiston can split his attacks against any units in base contact (including your HQ). A WL needs saga of the bear to have any hope of taking Mephiston down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2361162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafty Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 ^^ agreed....... putting a WL into combat with him his dumb. Plus who actually takes saga of the bear? 235 point WL isnt exactly cost effective for the rare chance of being insta'd. Plus for everyone (well almsot everyone) who does try and put a WL into combat with him and generally doesnt have sage of the bear is probably going to get insta'd since he has a s10 attack, and can re-roll to hit, and if you fail a ldrship test at -4 he rerolls to hit and wound......all you need to do is fail 1 wound and bye bye WL........ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2361217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 If I'm going to run a HQ with an initiative 1 weapon, I'm taking saga of the bear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2361239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 my wolf lord is TDA, TH, SS, SotB, WTN. so far he has killed by mephiston and the sanguinor in CC, not taking a wound from mephiston and only taking 1 wound from the sanguinor. storm shields for the win. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2361246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAtrox Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Greetings Brothers. Not that I enjoy talking about Fratricide, but Mephiston by himself should not really concern you. The nature of this sort of unit is that it requires the rest of the army to get him into the (relative) safety of CQC. I would suggest instead you focus on bogging the army down (a simple task with Rune Priests using Tempest or that other spell that puts units in Dangerous/Difficult Terrain. 2 Priests is what, 200 points?) Take a few Talismans, and lots of Long Fangs. With an army under 2,000pts that has Mephiston, most competent commanders will be using their main thrust as a delivery mechanism. Stop the main advance and he'll stop with them, or move forward on his own and be inherently more vulnerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2361254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Or, I don't know..my 10 man gh squad with 2x pg and an attached wgpl sporting a combi plas, which also happens to have my runepriest all riding in a crusader. Welcome to firebase 1. If meph can survive that much concentrated fire then I deserve to lose :) I personally feel like plasma and melta is the way to win vs BA, you know shoot the assaulty stuff, assault the shooty stuff. Since i've bought the BA codex and have had a little time to mess around with a few diff types of ba lists, I find myself feeling the same as I did with the pdf dex. Everything is so expensive and it's hard to include things you need and things you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198145-dealing-with-mephiston/page/2/#findComment-2363113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.