Land Raider

[MogLord]

Hi,

 

Could you please give me some insight on the different types of Land Raiders ( pro/cons )?

 

Yours

 

MogLord

[Justicar Valius]

Godhammer Land Raider: Decent anti transport, nothing special, if you are using a newer codex then the multimelta could be of some use. There is a way of using 2 in 100 points with a pure grey knight army that hardly ever loses (see the stickied thread in ordos inquisition "the way of the water warrior"). I wouldn't have one, doesn't fit my style.

 

Crusader: Let me say I love this tank. Multi melta, Twin linked assault cannons (even better if you get to use a newer codex....) And very nice anti hoard power in the hurricane bolters. You can even fit 8 tertminators in if you so wish. The hurricane bolters can always fire for DH deffinitely, i think they can for everyyone due to them being strength4? I don't know. Great tank, my faveourite non apcoalypse/Imperial armour one. TAKE EXTRA ARMOUR

 

Redeemer: trash. Would never use it. The sponsons range mean you need a landraider sized whole between 2 marine squads, you need to move 6" then PotMS one sponson to make use of both sponsons. Why take one when you can take a crusader? Really other than playing salamanders for fluff and fun I don't know why to take one, ask someone else.

 

Terminus Ultra: Is good fun, love using it for fun as long as you model it so the back sponsons can see past the front ones (as my mate who let me use it did). The satisfaction of shooting any AV13 or below tank and knowing its dead is great but one turbo laser will ruin your day. oh well, is still very fun.

 

Those are the ones I've ever used, truly great things apart from the redeemer. By the way, I run 2 crusaders in 1500 (as any good pure Daemonhunter player should!)

[wizard12]

There are 3 other variants that I havn't played but a few people have but havn't been mentioned either.

 

Prometius (sp?): This is a forgeworld land raider, it comes with 4 twin-linked heavy bolters (2 per sponson) and a battle auspex which reduces cover saves. It's a great transport and a good anti-horde vehicle.

 

Helios: yet another forge world variant, it is essecially a phobos/godhammer patten with a whilwind multiple missle launcher instead of a heavy bolter. It has a transport capacity of 6 and in my opinion you'd be better off fielding a normal whirlwind or two. But if you like the idea of an Av14 firebase of doom, this is your vehicle.

 

Ares: this variant can be found on the GW website. Much like the Ultra patten, it sacrafices all transport to mount a demolisher cannon and two heavy flamers. It's an interesting vehicle and I hope I could use it some time when I have more money. Though at 300 points, like the helios, I think you'd be better off buying a vindicator or two.

 

Personally, crusader every time, though if I already have one I'll take a normal land raider and then if theres points a second crusader.

[Koremu]

I've never understood why people like the Crusader over the Redeemer. The Redeemer is a fantastic and entirely purist Assault Vehicle. The usefulness of the Flamestorm Template simply cannot be overestimated. I really don't see why anyone takes a few bolters when any Assault Vehicle at longer than template range should be closing to engage or repositioning 12" anyway!

[Xeonic]

I think it's because the hurricane bolters are defensive weapons and have the range to be fired most turns, meaning more shots per game. The sheer killing power of the redeemer's flamestorms is incredible though, as they ignore most armor in the game, and cover too.

Now, I'll admit I don't have a raider, but I'd use probably a godhammer as a counter assault vehicle, the crusader as rolling anti-horde/assault vehicle, and the redeemer as a pure assault vehicle.

 

If I were picking one to support my gunline, godhammer. If I was looking to spearhead an assault, redeemer all the way since you'd only be firing one weapon at a time anyways, and the flamestorm is a brutal one for the task. You lose out on pure model capacity, but that's not a major issue espescially if you're running vanguard or honor guard instead of assault termies.

 

I'd probably only take a crusader is when I wanted to stuff as many terminators into a raider as possible, or perhaps a large BT crusader squad with a bunch of neophytes.

 

Of course personally I'd magnetize and have all three types available.

[Arkios]

Redeemer: trash. Would never use it. The sponsons range mean you need a landraider sized whole between 2 marine squads, you need to move 6" then PotMS one sponson to make use of both sponsons. Why take one when you can take a crusader? Really other than playing salamanders for fluff and fun I don't know why to take one, ask someone else.

 

I've never understood why people like the Crusader over the Redeemer. The Redeemer is a fantastic and entirely purist Assault Vehicle. The usefulness of the Flamestorm Template simply cannot be overestimated. I really don't see why anyone takes a few bolters when any Assault Vehicle at longer than template range should be closing to engage or repositioning 12" anyway!

 

Im with Koremu on this one. The ONLY difference between the Crusader and Redeemer are the sponson weapons and carying capacity. When you look at the Crusaders hurricane bolters, they really arent that great... Yea they are defensive weapons, BUT in order to fire defensive weapons you need to be moving at combat speed (ie- 6"). Usually, the main reason people take take a Land Raider is for its Assault Vehicle rule. Whats the point of having a Raider full of nasty assault specialists if you arent going to be trucking them up 12" a turn to get in combat? Yeah, being able to fire all the crusaders weapons while moving 6" a turn is cool and all, but it really goes against the point of th tank IMO. And when you are going to be moving 12" a turn, you can fire one weapon with POTMS. When the tank is on high speed approach to its target, are you really going to choose to fire the 3 bolter shots out to 24" from a hurricane bolter over 4 assault cannon shots or 1 multimelta shot out to the same range? Guess what, the Redeemer has the assault cannon and multimelta setup too... so in reality when you are moving 12" forward (which you should be doing with an assault vehicle) you will have the same realistic shooting options with a Redeemer as you would with a Crusader.

 

Also, each hurricane bolter is 3 twin-linked bolters. That means 12 S4-AP5 shots total up to 12" or 6 at 12"-24". If you are shooting at targets 12" away, thats mighty close to template range (~8" long flamer template) and I'm sure 6 bolter shots out to 24" is such a unique asset to have in an army fully of bolter toting tactical squads :D . The Redeemer on the other hand, has S6-AP3-Ignore-Cover templates to use when it finally gets to its destination that will devestate anything up to and including MEQs. Couple this with the ability to Tank Shock AND still use POTMS to fire a flamestorm, and you have a pretty reliable way to wipe out a melta-free unit. I say melta-free, because that is really the only type of "Death or Glory" that can hurt AV14. Anyways, here is how that works:

1- Tank Shock that Tactical squad equivalent running around with a Plasmagun or flamer (or anything but a melta gun / multimelta / meltabombs) 1 of 2 things occur:

a- They take their LD check, Fail and run away. They can then be escorted off the table by the Land Raider itself, and/or assaulted by the Raider's occupants, or any other nearby unit you may have.

b- They take their LD check, pass and cant perform a worthwhile 'Death or Glory attack. The opponent is forced to move all models in the raiders path to the side of it, thereby bunching up the entire unit on one side of the land raider.

2- Laugh maniacally as you use POTMS to fire the flamestorm sponson on the side of the Land raider that the enemy unit has bunched up on, hit 8 MEQs with the template, wounding on all on a 2+ and allowing no cover saves or 3+ armour saves.

 

 

So pretty much, the ONLY reason to choose a Cursader over a Redeemer is for model capacity (when you need to cram 8 terminators instead of 6 into the tank). Funny thing is, Im not really a fan of any of the land raiders. I think they are all over costed trash that can be destroyed with a single lucky shot, and never think about taking one in games under 2000+ points. :)

[Captain Idaho]

The thing about the Redeemer is it is so short ranged and struggles to operate effectively over 12", with a single Assault cannon being the only weapon it has. Problem with this is the Redeemer is carrying an assault unit generally so the can't flame the unit the embarked unit is targetting for assault. A Crusader gets to fire most turns at everything.

 

That is just my opinion but to me it is the clincher in the equation.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

The Godhammer is the best one overall, Crusader IMO is a very close second.

[Captain Idaho]

The Godhammer is the best one overall, Crusader IMO is a very close second.

 

Agreed, in particularly for myself. The stand off ability of a Landraider with 2 Lascannons rocks, and in my list that means staying with the rest of army softening up opponents.

 

Of course, those Hurricane Bolters and Assault cannon make me feel warm, inside! :D

[Koremu]

The problem I have with the Godhammer is the lack of Frag Assault Launcher. It's not a big problem - in most Terminator based instances it's not a problem at all - but it can be an issue, especially if you were using a Captain in one as you'd lose Init5.

[Captain Idaho]

The Captain has frag grenades, and is better off not in Terminator armour anyway.

[Justicar Valius]

Crusaders can do the firing retreat well (I love this against hordes). Redeemers can't do this, which is somthing I hate.

 

I also play pure Daemonhunters, I do not have a bunch of bolters to rely on but I do have 2 heavy flamers already (stuck in my crusaders). I can fire all but my assault cannon (normally, as I use codex:DH and I am not using the French codex so i get bad assault cannons) or if there are no tanks nearby for my BS4 PotMS multi melta I can fire the assault cannon.

 

Add 4 stormbolters to this and an invulnerable ignoring heavy flamer then 5 relic blade equivalents. I can reliably take out anything I want, which is how I play. Redeemers can fire one template a turn on average almost 2 survivors of a 10 man squad. Is it worth assaulting those 2 men?

 

Personal choice really I suppose, the crusader is a bit more multi purpose, the firing retreat can be done and it can just go on and support another squad shooting or mop up the last bits of squads for kill points or getting those last men of a squad holding an objective. The redeemer can be mashed in to easily with it having to be in melta range for more than one turn (the disgorging terminator turn). You take a redeemer if you want, I will never take one. Nothing will make me change that even if it's the GK redeemer in IA7

[Brother-Captain Isaac]

The problem I have with the Godhammer is the lack of Frag Assault Launcher. It's not a big problem - in most Terminator based instances it's not a problem at all - but it can be an issue, especially if you were using a Captain in one as you'd lose Init5.

 

Captains are better off in arty armour if you are going to stuff him in a Raider. Besides, if your Godhammer is anywhere near an enemy assault element then you're doing something wrong. Lascannons and close quarters do not belong in the same sentence.