Helsreach Novel Discussion

[Ashe Darke]

Just because their roots lie with the Imperial Fists it doesn't mean they're the same guys but with a different paint job. They are their own chapter and quite different from the Imperial Fists. Aaron does his research and from what I know of the Templars he did them justice. Besides they take more after Sigismund than Dorn.

 

Black Templars place great emphasis on close combat prowess and honour. As such they can often be seen charging into suicidal situations to avenge fallen comrades, but this does not dispel that such tactics indeed prove effective.

The Black Templars have continued in the style of their first High Marshal, preferring close combat over ranged warfare. This is further emphasised by the fanaticism of Black Templars Initiates, whose righteous anger makes them impulsive and headstrong.

Lexicanum

 

Not every founding retains the original traits of the Legion. Look at the Mortifactors, they're very different from the Ultramarines. In fact when they did meet the Ultramarines were freaked out by them because they were that different. I can't help but wonder if the problem lies with you thinking that Black Templars are supposed to act like Imperial Fists because they're really not the same chapters. If this was an Imperial Fist book I could see your point but it's not.

 

Plus they only had what, 9 days before the orks turned up and they had more important things than to complain about the thickness of the walls, not that complaining would have made them any thicker. And a single attack which wasn't anywhere near as strong as this one is hardly a history. By that logic you could say that Terra has a history of heresies.

[Brother_Godric]

As the original reply states, there is a great amount of differentiation between Chapters, in much the same way you can have several facets of a singular, realistic armed force with very different tactics, specialties, and armaments.

 

Sigismund, originally First Captain of the Imperial Fists, became the first Emperor's Champion of the Black Templars. Taken from Lexicanum -

 

During Horus's attack on the Imperial Palace, Rogal Dorn chose Sigismund as the Emperor's Champion, and gave him the best armour and weapons. He went forward to challenge the traitorous leaders to single combat, and triumphed over all he met in battle. He was a mighty warrior and after the Horus Heresy and the breakdown of the Imperial Fists into Codex chapters, Sigismund led the more zealous of the Imperial Fists as the Black Templars chapter and was elevated to the rank of First High Marshal of the Black Templars.

 

This is a theme they stick with very strongly. Whilst the Imperial Fists are famed masters of defense and siege warfare, the Black Templars are crusaders in every facet of the word. They seek out the enemy to the fore, to slay them in close combat and know their duty to Him Beloved on Earth is complete.

 

Ave Imperator.

[Brother Grunt]

Emperor be praised brothers.

 

Well put.

[A D-B]

The other guys already covered this perfectly, but I wanted a crack at it, too.

 

So, for the record:

 

1. The Black Templars are about as thematically different to the Imperial Fists as black is different to yellow.

 

2. Grimaldus criticised the defences several times, but what do you expect? It's an industrial hive city on a planet that was almost razed only five decades before. It's not a Space Marine fortress-monastery. The fact it's not an unbreakable bastion is a significant part of the narrative.

 

3. The walls were pretty incredible. It's just that no man-made structure could withstand what was coming down to Armageddon.

 

4. Grimaldus and the Templars organised/joined the siege defence as realistically as they could've done. They had a great deal more to handle than tracking down a city governor to call him names, especially when a) it would've changed nothing, b ) it's not the job of the Adeptus Astartes to chastise insignificant city leaders, c) No one knew this war would happen, and d) the city's defences were pretty great anyway.

 

But I'll do a deleted scene for you, dude:

 

Grimaldus stalked into the mayor's office, and was all like 'Seriously?'

 

At his side, Andrej talked like this Russian guy who the author totally knew. He had a hellgun. It was rad.

 

'Hola, G-dawg,' said the Imperial mayor.

 

Grimaldus straight-up killed the guy. And when the dude was dead, he said 'Don't call me G-dawg. I hate that. Anyway, your city is as well-defended as one could reasonably expect, and we'll be fine unless it's the biggest ork invasion in the history of the subsector. Ha! That's not likely, right? We'll be screwed if it is. Anyway, good job, man. Sorry for being so hard on you, there. '

 

The corpse didn't answer.

 

'I am thinking we should summon a medic, yes?' said Andrej. 'Yes, that would be prudent.'

 

'Shut up,' said Grimaldus. 'I hope you don't survive the novel.'

[Brother_Godric]

What is the sound of two ceramite gauntlets clapping?

 

CLANK. CLANK. CLANK.

[Candleshoes]

ADB did more to fully represent all the colors on the Black Templar palette in Helsreach than I could have even imagined. Not all is flowers and roses for the astartes who exist to punish worlds who gave their fealty to Horus.

 

The man knows how to write a character. He knows how to take a step back when writing, and allow character the freedom to be themself, whether it is in our (the audience) best intrest. This combined with an excellent setting, and events that we all know and love, allows for the story to reach much farther than just the target audience. He also knows how to research. He knows the distinction of how and when to leave out something, and has the sight to understand what needs to be included.

 

I have given Helsreach to two of my female classmates at university, who have no knowledge, concept, or understanding of 40k. They blasted through the book and were hungry for more (they are currently pummeling their way through Soul Hunter). Why? Logically the book is a siege, it starts, it ends, one could describe it as brutal violence and intolerance. It's not fun reading material you can convince most people to read, especially if they have no connection to the game. HOWEVER ADB breathes life into the characters, and they read and love it because of how he makes them. The way they speak, think, suffer, their traditions, their anger towards certain things, their false modesty, their immortalness, and their humanity. He paints in greys, not absolutes, and because of that, the potential of what he can turn the story into becomes so much more.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Is it alright that that 'deleted scene' sent me into a fit of laughter?

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

I thought one of Andrej's best lines ever was

"It is time," Andrej grinned again, "to earn some very shiny medals."

 

Some other guy "For the Emperor, for the Emperor,"

 

Andrej "Oh no not for Him. He is happy on his Golden Throne, a long way from here. This is for me and this is for you, and that is more than enough."

 

 

[Mazer Rackham]

My thoughts on the novel are already elsewhere, but I guarantee you Brethren that my next Templars army list will have a very familiar Reclusiarch in it.

 

Besides, the model is great too. Maybe a couple of Storm Troopers as Cenobyte Servitors..that would be rad too.

 

MR.

[Ashe Darke]

Regarding the end.

 

 

Personally I don't think it was a bit rush, I think maybe they were overwhelmed by too many orks. I think even Grimaldus himself was surprised at how quickly they were pushed back.

 

Writing good battle porn is not easy and at least he attempts it unlike some authors. In one of Pratchett's books the character passes out and they just miss the fight and wake up afterwards. And didn't CS Lewis miss out the battle scenes in the Narnia books or something like that?

 

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

C. S Lewis wrote Narnia, not Elliot.

[Ashe Darke]

Yeah, I'm confusing names, but the point still stands :blush:

[Tybrus]

I imagined Andrej having a russian accent.

 

Maybe it was just me, but I heard pure Cajan when he spoke. I was waiting for him to ask for some Gumbo an Gator at any second...

[Brother Vader]

I'm buying Helsreach purely on the strength of A DB's deleted scene.

 

Dude, if you write 40K as well as you parody it, I'm going to love this book.

Is it alright that that 'deleted scene' sent me into a fit of laughter?

Same here.

[StrangeGuy]

Just finished reading Helsreach, although was a very riveting read I found that it made you my Brothers look like savages always looking to spill blood

 

That's wrong how? The Black Templars are the Emperor's "... Angels of DEATH. Not his Angels of Administration and Services. Not His Angels of Recreation and Medicine. Angels of Death."

 

and not the tactically mind Sons of Dorn that I'd come to expect.

 

How so? We're true sons of Dorn, waging war in the same fashion Dorn himself (and the Emperor, if I may be allowed to name drop) chose originally. No Guilliman's Guide to Manners for us.

 

Now Dorn was a master of sieges and their defence, yet Grimaldus arrives at Helsreach and dosen't even ask why a world which has a history Orks dropping by for tea and cream cakes has walls that are paper thin. I'd be slapping the cities governor like a B###h.

 

1) Grimaldus isn't Dorn, nor does he pretend to be.

2) Grimaldus didn't have the resources to build new walls in nine days, so asking that question would be pointless.

3) Slapping the governor would contribute to a victory how?

 

My point is that you Templars where portrayed in a very poor light. I won't spoil it for those that haven't read it but you'll see.

 

We Templars were portrayed in quite a fine light. We could have been "humanist" Salamanders and abandoned the city and its residents altogether. Instead, the Helsreach Crusade had the honour, dignity and courage to stand and meet their fate. What more could Rogal Dorn or the Emperor ask for?

[Pcm979]

Every moment A D-B is online is a moment he's not writing a book. *Cracks whip* We want The First Heretic yesterday! Then do everything else, too. Apart from Dan Abnett's stuff. ;)

[Dangerman]

On reflection of the final battle

I guess how quickly it ended and abrupt the ending was reflected the final stand. Overwhelmed very quickly and How hectic it was with the EC going down and the fray for the black sword. But what still bothers me is what happened after the cathedral fell? Did the orks just leave and BT soldiers came from the Eternal Crusader to retrieve the Black sword etc.?

 

 

 

I'm fairly certain in the other Helsreach thread ADB referred to andrej having a Russian accent, yes :)

[Tybrus]

I'm fairly certain in the other Helsreach thread ADB referred to andrej having a Russian accent, yes B)

 

 

I know, the entire story I read him much more like Gambit from X-men (The 90 comic I don't know anything else) Very rougiesh and prefect for what I pictured. After I say ADB's post I ran back grabbed my book and read a few lines trying out the bad Dolph Lungrin accent from rocky, but finding the Russin Astronought from (Funny this) Amagaddon (With Bruce Willice) worked the best. I still think he sounds better as gambit, some how the lines just work better for me with a flipent disreguard for what was going on around him, instead of a russin deadpan. Try it yourself, and I think you will enjoy Andrej even more (Nothing aganist ADB)

[Knight of Old]

Try it yourself, and I think you will enjoy Andrej even more.

 

Trying to, but I think Russian parody suits him better. Might be the cultural barrier though, I was puzzled at first. Didn't know what to think of this way to represent someone's accent, the only way I could conclude it's has some Russian flavour is because of the name. Should it be something like Andrew, Lance, William I might see your point, but with the name Andrej and how the character acts, it's all to easy for me to imagine some cheery Russian dude that's secretly drinking Vodka, when his commanding officer isn't looking.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Got the book yesterday - and I say this having knowingly skipped any posts regarding it bar what the central premise of the book is - but I find myself pausing after every Chapter and then going back after a couple minutes because it is very enticing.

 

Grimaldus is one of those characters very evocotive of the Templar way and as a fan of the Black Templars I'm glad they finally have some decent fiction but tht it is also well written.

[Ashe Darke]

On reflection of the final battle

I guess how quickly it ended and abrupt the ending was reflected the final stand. Overwhelmed very quickly and How hectic it was with the EC going down and the fray for the black sword. But what still bothers me is what happened after the cathedral fell? Did the orks just leave and BT soldiers came from the Eternal Crusader to retrieve the Black sword etc.?

I think it's because the book is about Grimaldus's change and how Helsreach did that to him, I guess the struggle to get out didn't shape his character? That and he hit his page limit and had to cut back.

[Marshal Varas Mortez]

We Templars are bloodthirsty, for the blood of our foes upon the floor fills us with a sense of rightousness!

With a chainsword and bolt pistol in our hands there is no foe that can stand before us.

We are death incarnate! We are the emperor's fury! We are the Black Templars!!

[Brother_Godric]

Often, there are those who forget the nobility of Rogal Dorn. They remember him as a master of tactic, and defense. A peerless sage whose name has been inscribed in tomes from one side of The Imperium to the next.

 

But they forget the warrior. They forget how Dorn cast down his enemies as heretics, mutants, witches, and xenos. They forget his hatred for the beings who already suckled as parasites at the teat of the Imperium of Man.

 

The Fists are true sons of Dorn. One side of Dorn. If they are his cooled granite brow, his calculating mind, then we are his hate. We are chainsword, and bolter, and bloody death come for those who dare stand before the worlds of Him on Earth and stake claim.

 

We are Templar, and we shall never tire.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Hehe why is it so easy to sound like an utter badass and come up with huge speeches of anger and wrath at the drop of a hat when speaking of Templars?

[Marshal Varas Mortez]

For we are that amazing :yuck:

 

People see Dorn as a peerless tacticion. I would like to point out where most of the imperial fists got butchered in an attempt to kill the iron warriors. Where he went through the trenches butchering all before him. Ye just remember that :P We are fists at heart too. Just we are now more Templars ;)