State of the metagame.

[Rorschach]

Hi all,

 

I've been out fo the loop for a fair while now, not having played a single game for almost four years and pretty much just modelled on and off for a while. So I have a few questions concerning the state of the metagame, both on a LGS- and tournament level.

 

- how do C:CSM fare these days? Are we pushovers?

- who are baddies these days? Orks still bastards, or did Guard take their place? Do we fear rush, mech or swarm the most?

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

- did the loyalist codex point a finger at us and laugh as much as I suspect? *cough*Storm Shields*cough*

 

Thanks in advance for all feedback!

[Hellios]

Hi all,

 

I've been out fo the loop for a fair while now, not having played a single game for almost four years and pretty much just modelled on and off for a while. So I have a few questions concerning the state of the metagame, both on a LGS- and tournament level.

 

- how do C:CSM fare these days? Are we pushovers?

- who are baddies these days? Orks still bastards, or did Guard take their place? Do we fear rush, mech or swarm the most?

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

- did the loyalist codex point a finger at us and laugh as much as I suspect? *cough*Storm Shields*cough*

 

Thanks in advance for all feedback!

 

Metagame varies from place to place but CSM lists have placed fairly well in a number of tournies and I remember seeing someone posting here that the top 2 places in the UK GT were won by CSM lists (although I may be mistaking), so yes they can be competative :devil: but like anything it all depends on your list, how you use it and who/what you come up against... not to mention a little sprinkling of luck.

[Moress]

Hi all,

 

I've been out fo the loop for a fair while now, not having played a single game for almost four years and pretty much just modelled on and off for a while. So I have a few questions concerning the state of the metagame, both on a LGS- and tournament level.

 

- how do C:CSM fare these days? Are we pushovers?

- who are baddies these days? Orks still bastards, or did Guard take their place? Do we fear rush, mech or swarm the most?

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

- did the loyalist codex point a finger at us and laugh as much as I suspect? *cough*Storm Shields*cough*

 

Thanks in advance for all feedback!

 

Hello,

 

CSM are still pretty competative, the only thing wrong with the book is that its really bland and spits on the fluff (See the fourth point for example).

 

- Like I said above, the codex still holds it's own, though it's begining to show signs of age when compared to the newer codex's. Codex creep has been off the charts lately, but we still have some of the best troops in the game, and in 5th ed, troops are what win 2/3s of your games, and when your troops are as tough as most other armies elites (Zerkers and PM's), we're tough as nails. We also have one of the HQ's point for point in the form of the Demon Prince, best to take two of these bad boys for competative play, but for playing pick up games or against friends I would stick to just one. We also have solid Heavy support choices, I personaly love defilers, and Oblits are hands down the best heavy weapon units in the game. We can also run a 6 Land Raider rush lists if we wanted.

 

- As far as who's the best, I can't really answer that, I don't have enough experience against SW and haven't played against Blood Angels yet, but I can tell you Orks are my toughest match up.

 

- I wouldn't say Termicide is Mandatory, but compared to the rest of our units in the elite slots, it's the best on available to use, so take what you will from that.

 

- A "Competative" Tournament list will typically consist of 2 princes with Mark of Slanessh and Lash of Submission, and as many Plague Marines in Rhino's and Oblits that you can fit. The PM's are the best objective holders in the game, and the Princes use Lash to group up enemy units for Plasma cannon goodness from the Oblits. The lash is also really good for pulling enemy units off objectives, especially if you went second and the game is aobut to end. Many players consider this build very effective but really unfluffy cu your using two Princes in the same army, using a Mark of Slanessh, leading an army of Nurgle Warriors, backed up by 6-9 of the most rare and elite foot soldiers in Chaos' arsenale.

 

- If you mean the Vanilla SM codex, I'd say we still come out on top here as far as competition goes. OUr troops are still lightyears ahead of theirs, and while SS/TH termies are good, they don't score. Their HQ's are really troublesome as the bonus' they provide for their army can be really good.

 

Hope that helps.

[Rorschach]

Thank you, Moress, that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for :)

 

Seeing troops being game winner now melts my heart, I've been a huge fan of troop-heavy lists ever since 2nd edition. I take it, from preferrence of Plague Marines over Zerks that we're going for resilient victories rather than pure onslaughts now? Then again, this isn't 3rd edition Rhino Rush madness either, I think.

 

As for the elites, I've read a bit about the 5-man Chosen special weapon spam units - do they work well alongside Termicide, or is it one or the other? Would 2x Termicide/1x Chosen spam be a viable setup alongside Prince, 3x Rhino troops and a few Oblits?

 

The HQ issue is pretty much as I feared from reading up on the rules again... Princes are really the only viable choice? I realize a few of the characters are horribly overpriced targets, and Lords seems rather mote and boring... pity, really.

 

Will try and work out a list or two eventually, when I get around to giving my existing models and bits a recount and a repaint. More input gladly appreciated!

[Moress]

Thank you, Moress, that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for :P

 

Seeing troops being game winner now melts my heart, I've been a huge fan of troop-heavy lists ever since 2nd edition. I take it, from preferrence of Plague Marines over Zerks that we're going for resilient victories rather than pure onslaughts now? Then again, this isn't 3rd edition Rhino Rush madness either, I think.

 

As for the elites, I've read a bit about the 5-man Chosen special weapon spam units - do they work well alongside Termicide, or is it one or the other? Would 2x Termicide/1x Chosen spam be a viable setup alongside Prince, 3x Rhino troops and a few Oblits?

 

The HQ issue is pretty much as I feared from reading up on the rules again... Princes are really the only viable choice? I realize a few of the characters are horribly overpriced targets, and Lords seems rather mote and boring... pity, really.

 

Will try and work out a list or two eventually, when I get around to giving my existing models and bits a recount and a repaint. More input gladly appreciated!

 

It's usually a combination of the two, though if I had to pick one of the cult troops, PM's are the best point for point, it's not uncommon for them to get charged by berzerkers and come out on top (T4(5) and Feel No Pain is stupid good against anything S>8 and not a power weapon, it's the equivelent of having terminator armor, not only that, but don't forget about blight gernades). If you do want to use Zerkers, one popular build is throwing them in Land Raiders and taking advantage of the assault ramps.

 

Choosen are kind of hit or miss, I had a friend who run 2-4 five man squads of chosen with 2 Meltaguns per squad that outflanked. They work really well against those basilisks or whirlwinds that love to camp in corners of the map behind LOS blocking terrain. The problem is, you only have a 2/3 chance of getting the side you want, so if your opponent is turteling in one corner of the map, and your choosen appear on the opposite end, that unit is pretty much out of the game, it's this reason termicide is better because for less points you get 3 melta shots that can deepstrike anywhere, and can also deepstrike off your icons (Which any chaos player should have abundance of, especially if your running tactical CSM). The benefits of this are huge against someone playing mech because their tanks will be moving around alot, no need to worry about appearing on the right side of the map and then chasing down a land raider, just deep strike next to it and shoot. Also as an added bonus your opponent now has to kill them, because they can tarpit a unit of Devestators or tactical marines, +2/++5 saves with a power weapon isn't exactly something you let run wild among your lines, even if it's only three guys.

 

The HQ selection in our book is absolutely horrible as you've already seen, which is rather unfortunate. As far as "competative" choices go, its DP > Sorc > Lord. The reason the Prince is so good is because he is so undercosted and the other two guys are so over costed, a fully blinged out lord/ will cost more then a Daemon Prince, and to lame things up some more, the prince's options consist of Mark/No Mark, and Which Psycic Power to take (Wings are a Mandator! they're dirt cheap, yet they do some much for your Prince). Think about it this way, when I first began my army, I use to run a termie lord with undivided Daemon Weapon and Combi Melta, this ran me 150points, for 5 points more I could get a Daemon Prince with Wings and Warp time, for only 5 points!

Just to run some numbers for you, the prince costs 20points more then a lord, for a measly 20 points you get.

+1 WS

+2 S

+1 W

+Eternal Warrior

+Access to Psycic Powers

-Independant Character

 

Thats a pretty darn good deal if you ask me ;)

 

Hope that helps

[Zhukov]

- how do C:CSM fare these days? Are we pushovers?

Pretty well, still near or even in the top.

 

- who are baddies these days? Orks still bastards, or did Guard take their place? Do we fear rush, mech or swarm the most?

Imperial guard for sure if you ask me. They got the best transports of the game I say, as it can be spammed. Its spammed with cheap troops inside which each carry 3x BS4 special weapons. Couple that with an extra enormous amount of fire power/mobilty in the from of Flying Transport-Gunships + very cost-effective artillery and you got a codex made of win. Happily its such an expensive army you dont see it that much ^^

 

Spave wolves, Orks, Chaos and maybe Eldar are all about equally strong I think.

 

New tyranids are not really that good and I say the same goes for Blood Angels. Blood angels their troops are still bad without buffs (plain tacticals and plain assault marines), the buffs in the form of Priest giving them FnP and FC means more KP's and more points invested in them.

 

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

Not mandatory, pretty viable. I personally dont like it due to the randomness and the fact that it furfills a job Oblits perform well enough + they do more. They only do 1 thing: coming in and hopefully blowing something up.

 

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

If you ask me: Princes, combination of plagues/berzerkers in rhinos and Oblits. Many people seem to be fan of including vindies and defilers but I think they are nowhere near as good as Oblits. They suck sometimes, while Oblits never suck. Lash is getting out of date. The best lists around counter it pretty easily, and the ones that dont you are going to win against anyway. Anecdotal evidence from the UK GT doesnt say too much. I think the 'lash + Oblits + plagues spam lists' will slowly be less succesfull when more tourney results come rolling in, but we'll see.

 

Land Raider rush builds still do okay sometimes and I think we do it pretty well because we actually put troops in it in the form of berzerkers + have pretty okay'ish support. But others might do this better, still not sure about it.

 

- did the loyalist codex point a finger at us and laugh as much as I suspect? *cough*Storm Shields*cough*

Nah, I personally kinda laugh at all those builds who include Land Raider with Hammer Termies in it. Its not that hard to kill termies, you 'only' need to destroy their land raider. On foot they are dead. Just poor some fire/attacks in them and they will die. They dont have FnP or multiple wounds, just a good armour save/invulnerable save.

Vulkan builds are very strong though, as it makes the best weapons of this edition better (melta + flamer), but I've yet got to lose against them. Our best builds do well against the Marine codex as their troops still suck big time in my opinion.

[killersquid]

I am one of the only chaos players in my area, but I'd like to think I've done fairly well for myself. My Chaos army mostly has only played a couple of 1500pt games, and mostly 1000pts (of which I was in a Tournament for).

 

- how do C:CSM fare these days? Are we pushovers?

- who are baddies these days? Orks still bastards, or did Guard take their place? Do we fear rush, mech or swarm the most?

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

- did the loyalist codex point a finger at us and laugh as much as I suspect? *cough*Storm Shields*cough*

 

1. We are not pushovers, I've won agaisnt every army so far, including the new Blood angels. My only losses so far are from Eldar and Codex:Space Marines, and Tyranids. In that order.

 

2.I find that Eldar is rather tough, due to how tough their tanks are, and Tyranids have some pretty powerful monsters that can outclass our Daemon princes. However, neither army is over the top, and I feel that every army I have an equal opportunity to win against. All about balanced lists.

 

3.I have never used Terminators, and I've had no trouble so far.

 

4.Well, I was recently in a tournament a month ago, and came second place best overall by only three points. My list was like this. I had only one loss (against Tyranids), two massacre wins, and one minor win.

 

Daemon Prince, MoS, Lash Wings.

Daemon Prince, MoT, Bolt of Change, Gift of Chaos

Chaos Marinesx5, meltagun, Rhino

Chaos Marinesx5, meltagun, Rhino

Chaos Spawn x3

Chaos Spawn x3

Chaos Spawn x2

Chaos Spawn x2

 

For 1500pts, I add in a unit of 15 lesser Daemons, three obliterators, and pump up the marine squads. So far undefeated at 1500pts.

 

5. There is nothing in the Space Marine codex I would like.

[the jeske]

Daemon Prince, MoS, Lash Wings.

Daemon Prince, MoT, Bolt of Change, Gift of Chaos

Chaos Marinesx5, meltagun, Rhino

Chaos Marinesx5, meltagun, Rhino

Chaos Spawn x3

Chaos Spawn x3

Chaos Spawn x2

Chaos Spawn x2

:jaw: 4 units of spawn ... and you were second ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am one of the only chaos players in my area, but I'd like to think I've done fairly well for myself. My Chaos army mostly has only played a couple of 1500pt games, and mostly 1000pts (of which I was in a Tournament for).

 

QUOTE

- how do C:CSM fare these days? Are we pushovers?

depands . do by c:csm you mean BL ? if yes then zerker/pm+oblits and 2 DP works like it did before . if you mean stuff that is build around csm or cult units like 1ksons or NM then not realy .

- who are baddies these days? Orks still bastards, or did Guard take their place? Do we fear rush, mech or swarm the most?

IG is still very very good , there rest of list is rather situational . BA for example have a good[because cheaper then other meq] alfa strike and LR rush list

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

it is better to play 6 oblits then 4 oblits and a termicid .

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

2nurgle DPs , 2xzerker 2x pms all in rhinos 6 oblits.

- did the loyalist codex point a finger at us and laugh as much as I suspect? *cough*Storm Shields*cough*

yeah but not because of the special rules like SS , but because our dex was a multi legion one [the 3.5 one] with 10+ lists with different game play and we ended up with one way to play with two lists and two tier 2 lists. all the new meq dex [sW/SM/BAs] can generate different lists and/or change the FoC, modifiy lists[with specials , but still] , they have more then 1 choice for one slot [what means that at 2500 or 3k chaos Realy starts to suck as we play with the same set up only with a few more units , while they play lists tailored for 2.5 or 3 k points] etc . Ah and chaos didnt get any new units [why we lost demons for example ] or army options.

[Corpse.]

Three chaos spawn with 6-21 attacks charging into melee with str5 can take down most transports in the game or at least damage them to an extent, so 120 points in 3 spawn can be a fun deterrent if they're ignored. They could have been just unprepared lists that went against the spawns.

 

Also spawns must fulfill all three models before making a new unit of them. So that list is illegal with 2x2 units of spawns. Just to point that out.

 

 

Everyone kinda gripes about one thing or another in our codex but for the most part we get some fun things. We might pay more for something that someone else gets for cheaper, or they have units similar/better than ours. I can say this, our weapons are just as deadly as their cousin weapons others use. We have a troop selection that can make up the entire army and still feel balanced. Our HQ's have a counter for almost everything in the game, and you can double that said HQ. (Two Plague Reapers = Carnifex hunting duo, or a pair of tzeentch sorcerers with warptime, same thing)

 

We got powerful stuff we don't like admitting to because we're used ot it or still a bit miffed over our fluff being ruffled together in a messy stack of cards.

 

Took me a while but I admit our codex is better than most, and perhaps superior to even the newer codexes of certain armies. (Looking at you SW codex)

[the jeske]

he has 4 units of spawn .

[Zentor]

he has 4 units of spawn .

 

Exactly what I said when he posted his list couple months back... 400 points of spawn...

[Zhukov]

Yes lets make this clear to people who might read this topic without knowing it: Spawn are awefull. If someone places 2nd on a tourney while he uses 8 Spawn, well that says a lot about that tourney.

[minigun762]

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

Not mandatory, pretty viable. I personally dont like it due to the randomness and the fact that it furfills a job Oblits perform well enough + they do more. They only do 1 thing: coming in and hopefully blowing something up.

 

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

If you ask me: Princes, combination of plagues/berzerkers in rhinos and Oblits. Many people seem to be fan of including vindies and defilers but I think they are nowhere near as good as Oblits. They suck sometimes, while Oblits never suck. Lash is getting out of date. The best lists around counter it pretty easily, and the ones that dont you are going to win against anyway. Anecdotal evidence from the UK GT doesnt say too much. I think the 'lash + Oblits + plagues spam lists' will slowly be less succesfull when more tourney results come rolling in, but we'll see.

 

I just wanted to make 2 quick comments on Zhukov's points.

1) I think you'll see some people using larger than Termicide Terminators squads or 5 man Chosen squads in Rhinos for Elite support instead of Termicide because you want more than just a 1 shot weapon.

2) I would be one of those people who think Defilers can be competitive but instead of Vindicators I would instead include Combi-Predators (AC/LC sponsons). For most people, I think any of those 3 options can perform well in the role of long range fire support.

[killersquid]

Three chaos spawn with 6-21 attacks charging into melee with str5 can take down most transports in the game or at least damage them to an extent, so 120 points in 3 spawn can be a fun deterrent if they're ignored. They could have been just unprepared lists that went against the spawns.

 

Also spawns must fulfill all three models before making a new unit of them. So that list is illegal with 2x2 units of spawns. Just to point that out.

 

 

No, you must take the least number of squads possible, not max out squads. Ten spawn, four squads is the least number of squads I can take, thus I can divided them however I'd like between the four squads. They are also fantastic units, and highly underrated. Able to take on most units and vehicles. Their only real worry is dreadnoughts.

 

Yes lets make this clear to people who might read this topic without knowing it: Spawn are awefull. If someone places 2nd on a tourney while he uses 8 Spawn, well that says a lot about that tourney.

 

Ten Spawn, and they are not awful. They are very good 'en mass. Especially when you have Lash to get the charge off quicker. Have you ever used them? They are much better in practice, then on paper. Considering how much cover there is, they often get saves, and with lash I can get guaranteed second turn charges, or better. Great unit for resilience, as small arms are useless against them, as are powerful heavy weapons. Except S10, but those are few and far between.

 

Great if you take princes too, and then marines in Rhinos. Lots of things which are quite tough, (spawn and princes are all T5 with multiple wounds), thus really spreads out your opponents high powered weapons. Either they kill a prince, and then the spawn swamp them, or they kill some spawn, then the princes swamp them. However, I've found that in combat against enemy troops and things, spawn are much better then princes due to the number of wounds they can force. Princes are there to suck fire, and take out terminators and walkers.

 

In any case, they work quite well for me. The Tourney was quite competitive IMO, granted it was only 1000pts, so there is not much people can do about 10 spawn and tow princes at 1000pts.; Mostly just spamming T5, which are very, very fast.

[the jeske]

and with lash I can get guaranteed second turn charges, or better.

first of all most armies are mecha .so you first have to get them out of transports . this alone makes a first turn charge a problem . second . most armies [all imperial , eldar and nids] run some sort of psychic debuff. this means that the actual use of lash is made problematic.

 

+ if it worked like you . I would invest the 400 points in to meq and not spawn and get the same first turn charge.

 

Great unit for resilience, as small arms are useless against them, as are powerful heavy weapons.

dude they die to fists and being fearless in hth and if they run in to something a bit tougher like a MC or TH/SS termis they just evaporate. they resilient against stuff without fists and with few low str attacks[but against armies you will either face superior fire power or fish of fury tactic or both at the same time].

Either they kill a prince, and then the spawn swamp them, or they kill some spawn, then the princes swamp them.

they just kill the prince then tar pit the spawn counter with counter unit , destroy one/two unit of spawns per turn and around turn 3-4 . and that in KP missions not the other 2/3 of games where you need scoring units and your army is runing 2x5 meq :). lets say you play against a pedro list. first turn two drop pods are down smoke rhinos with combi melta , they combat squad so they are 2x5 each [one with pedro] they smoke your troops with plasmas . and yes then your probably swamp them with spawn and theDP . the problem is you 0 scoring units max you can get now is a draw.

[killersquid]

First off, I must apologies I had trouble with the quote tags, so they are not perfect. But, should be readable, just wont be links and such.

 

 

first of all most armies are mecha .so you first have to get them out of transports . this alone makes a first turn charge a problem . second . most armies [all imperial , eldar and nids] run some sort of psychic debuff. this means that the actual use of lash is made problematic.

 

+ if it worked like you . I would invest the 400 points in to meq and not spawn and get the same first turn charge.

 

Lash is helpful, but not necessary for success. I have played Eldar, and I have played Mech armies with my spawn-spam army. In both cases neither things were too much of an issue. Sure, I don't get lash off as much, but that is hardly necessary. Also, why would I play Mech? So I can have the same copy/paste army everyone else has? Not terribly likely. If no one expects it, the more fun it is.

 

dude they die to fists and being fearless in hth and if they run in to something a bit tougher like a MC or TH/SS termis they just evaporate. they resilient against stuff without fists and with few low str attacks[but against armies you will either face superior fire power or fish of fury tactic or both at the same time].

Most squads, only contain one model with powerfists. Powerfists don't Instant Kill Spawn, so with two attacks base (for most space marines, I'll use that for comparison). So, two attacks, hitting with 1.32 of the attacks, and then generally causing one wound. So, I end up with one spawn a bit more wounded, but thats it. Thunderhammer Terminators are more of a problem, but I have had success against them with using multiple squads of spawn, and the Princes. Keep in mind, 1000pts is what my list was in. If hes running terminators in 1000pts, it's generally a 5man squad. If it's more, then the rest of his list will be lacking. Five Thunderhammer Terminators will (according to my Math) cause only 6 wounds (rounding up), on average. So, two dead spawn. Not too bad. I am not sure how to do the math for spawn, as It's hard to anticipate how many attacks I'll have. But, at that point I'll be able to have a Daemon prince in there as well, which will even the odds. Though, it's hard to say "Thunderhammer terminators will kill them" out of context. It's easy to say things on the boards, but in a game it's hard to anticipate what will happen. thats where a lot of arguments fall flat.

 

I have had trouble with fearless, but I find they don't loose combat too much, when I get a multi-charge. This happens most often, as I keep them together (At least as well as I can ha ha ha). Shooting at them has never been too much of a worry, I've played against Fish of Fury, and it has not been a problem yet, though only a couple times at at 1500pts, so it's not my ideal list.

 

they just kill the prince then tar pit the spawn counter with counter unit , destroy one/two unit of spawns per turn and around turn 3-4 . and that in KP missions not the other 2/3 of games where you need scoring units and your army is runing 2x5 meq :). lets say you play against a pedro list. first turn two drop pods are down smoke rhinos with combi melta , they combat squad so they are 2x5 each [one with pedro] they smoke your troops with plasmas . and yes then your probably swamp them with spawn and theDP . the problem is you 0 scoring units max you can get now is a draw.

 

It's easy to say kill the two daemon princes, and then the spawn at once. How will this be done? Trust me, I've played many games with this army. No one has managed to do this yet. Except one game against Tyranids, Still not sure how that Trygon was able to win combat agaisnt two Daemon princes. Rather hilarious battle it was.

 

I am not sure who Pedro is, but one squad can kill both my troops choices in one turn before retaliation? While both are in Transports? I find this hard to believe. If it two units of ten sternguard with meltaguns, then it's got to be a lot of points. That means less models to kill, therefore I can win by massacre. you out. If your already in charge range, you make it easier for me.

 

I don't know, you cannot really dissuade me from using units and tactics that have worked for me time, and time again. I will admit, not all my opponents are 'tournament players', but the majority are people who I would describe was quite competent players. I am also not saying that the list is infallible, I know that it can loose, I've said I've lost myself. But, it's not as hard to beat as you may think because I take some spawn. I understand you may hate them, and that they are not a common choice. However, I have found though a lot of gaming that they are not as terrible as people make them out to me. Obviously, running a unit of three at the opponent will accomplish nothing. It's all about multiple charges. Sure, it's risky, but it's very successful when you can get 6 or more D6+6 S5 attacks on the charge, with just two squads.

 

 

TL;DR

 

I like spawn, you don't like spawn. What works for me, may not work for you. I go with what is successful for me, and I understand you have resignations with that. However, no one can tell me they suck, when they have nearly won me a GW tournament, and other games. I am sorry, it cannot be done. You can believe if you want, that I am lying to you, or that I am playing inexperienced players. I can tell you this is not the case, but honestly all you have is my word, it's impossible for me to show you the people I game against. I fear that this discussion will keep going in an endless circle.

[the jeske]

How will this be done?

in what army ?

 

I am not sure who Pedro is, but one squad can kill both my troops choices in one turn before retaliation? While both are in Transports? I find this hard to believe.

pedro cantor space marine character . makes sternguard scoring. The build he is used in has 2x10 sternguards i drop pods . each unit has 5 melta and 5 plasma . they land on disembark they combat squads [so 4 units now] . melta units open up transports and plasma shot the units that disembarked .

 

But, it's not as hard to beat as you may think because I take some spawn

400 pts in a 1k army is not "some" its half an army of spawn . you run 2x5 scoring units . if those die , maxium you can get is a draw. you realy not going to tell me that there are armies that have problems with killing 2 rhinos and 2x5 meq , because of such armies realy would exist , well ... then they would be very very very bad armies considering most of the playfield is some sort of a meq + most armies , including those that are not meq are mecha.

 

You can believe if you want, that I am lying to you, or that I am playing inexperienced players.

dude no said that you are lieing . but realy at 1k points[realy balanced] if you run spawns well first all some armies just dont work [like eldar or tau] . IG works ok , some armies that are realy weak in normal games [like DW] work much better. But you have to remember 5th ed is not made to be played at 1k points . At 1k points it is highly unbalance with most armies dont working at all . I mean If I take a 5 land speeder army [just hvy bolters and ac] at 750 pts and it wins games , it doesnt mean that in real games an army that spent 2/3 of points on land speeders works. It is as simple as that.

You say that that spawns dont die in hth . well they do they lose one wound to fists and one/two from normal attacks and then they do fearless saves [which they fail most of them time] can they tar pit stuff ? well yeah they can , specialy if there are not counter units in the opposing army or the army is slow . But am trying to imagine how this list is played against eldar or tau lists at both 1k and 1500[asuming your buffing up the troops] and I have no idea how your getting in to hth . a LR rush can just not disembark against you have a good chance of wining.

 

I understand you may hate them, and that they are not a common choice.

I dont hate units or builds or armies . What I do hate is making a gross asumpotion that after playing and wining a tournament at 1k points [when GW alone said that 5th ed was made in mind with bigger games then 4th ed 1500 pts] that an army that stacks spawn is a good one , is foolish. The army wont work at 1500 , it wont work at 1750-1850 and it is probably going to get tabled at 2000-2250 . There is no such thing as common and uncommon choice and chaos sm dex. Others dex yeah they have [like khan lists] we have two builds that work and two tier 2 lists that dont , and not more.

 

 

Sure, it's risky, but it's very successful when you can get 6 or more D6+6 S5 attacks on the charge, with just two squads.

for me risky is something like a LR rush build . 50% chance to lose on turn 1 , some worse some better match ups. You need to Get turn 1 , not get shot at . not play against LR rush , roll high enough on move to pull off charge , dont have your 2x5 meq dead before the end of the game [also important not rolling more then 3 objectives to take] . thats not risky. that is bad.

[Einheri]

- how do C:CSM fare these days? Are we pushovers?

 

Pretty well, but the competitive builds are few and it gets repetitive seeing it (2xDP, 2x3Oblits, PMs, Berzerkers, transports). The new Codex has completely ruined the fluff - there's no longer any reason or benefit to play pure cults, it's also quite vanilla with only lesser and greater daemons.

 

- who are baddies these days? Orks still bastards, or did Guard take their place? Do we fear rush, mech or swarm the most?

 

5th is heavy on the vehicles so Orks are not fairing so well IMO - they excelled in massed infantry, but that's mostly ineffective now. Guard are better than ever, probably the most deadly army as a whole.

 

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

 

Personally I think it's a waste of points. It's okay but you can do better, as someone else said Oblits can be used for the same role only more effectively. I haven't fielded termies at all in ages.

 

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

- did the loyalist codex point a finger at us and laugh as much as I suspect? *cough*Storm Shields*cough*

 

It's a solid Codex and very versatile. The new 'Power Nipples' Codex is what everyone is talking about though, but I haven't encountered any BA recently. From what I've read they're vincible enough - overwhelmingly focused on melee (which is to be expected) which is not so useful with the mass of mech everyone is fielding.

 

Also, good to see a fellow Nordmann on the site. :D

[NemFX]

- how do C:CSM fare these days? Are we pushovers?

No, you just aren't as awesome as you used to be. It's cool. Loyalists are still mostly boned too.

 

 

- who are baddies these days? Orks still bastards, or did Guard take their place? Do we fear rush, mech or swarm the most?

Guard, Blood Angels, Orks and Tau.

 

 

 

- is Termicide still mandatory? Is it even viable anymore?

Depends who your playing. I've been seriously beat down by Obliterators and special characters.

 

 

 

- How does a typical C:CSM tourney list look?

Surprisingly sparse. A few troop choices that do nothing, then a full cadre of elites and hq wrecking everything on the field.

 

 

 

- did the loyalist codex point a finger at us and laugh as much as I suspect? *cough*Storm Shields*cough*

See: Codex Blood Angels