Favourite Primarch.

[Mr. Sandbot]

Thats actually what I enjoy about him. There are times where Russ embodies the questionably "noble" spirit of a warrior class like the samurai or knights.

...wait, what.

 

There's no nobility in Russ, and as you put forth the comparison with samurai and knights, there is certainly no mercy in him. Russ is a juggernaught, the only thing that will stop him is a lack of targets to slaugther. I'd rather compare him with Norse vikings or Celtic barbarians, tribal warriors that will stop for nothing in the eyes of victory. I'd much rather compare the samurai with Vulkan, and the knight with Dorn.

 

Its pretty much why I put "noble" in quotes. The Samurai originally were tax collectors for the nobles they served who would "rough up" the poor for their cash. The Knights would eventually go and slaughter children in the name of God. In both of these classes, there is a sense of warrior like nobility because of how they believed in upfront warfare with no deception or underhanded tricks. Both of them also had an honor system they were supposed to live by. Well, the Wolves and Russ are the exact same way but with a twist. They will go and crush everything around them in the name of the Emperor or out of a larger sense of protecting the people of the Imperium. They'll go do while following their own honor system to keep themselves in check while talking down to anyone who fights differently (same as knights and samurais). But ultimately, the wolves are a blend of man and primitive beast. For that, I believe them to be a great piece of satire for warrior classes who believe themselves to be noble (and may even have noble virtues) while completely disregarding how animalistic it is for them to be engaging in war and to possess such mindless aggression. Actually, I would also liken them to the Spartans for that same kind of mindset. Its for these reasons why I would put "noble" in quotes and why I'm still rather optimistic in my outlook on the Wolves (despite being a loyal follower of the Sons).

Despite this, the IA still paints Russ as a pretty decent fellow while A Thousand Sons only portrays (rather poorly) the idea of how Russ would act when his pre-established honor code has been violated in a way that becomes an insult to his martial pride.

One thing I never understood about Russ in A Thousand Sons was his remark of how he can "live with that" (pg 242) when Magnus points out how there will only be ruins left. It pretty much goes against how the Wolves are in 40k since Logan Grimnar seems to hate the Inquisition for pretty much doing the essence of leaving only ruins after Armaggedon (aka betraying the very populace they fought to defend in the sameway Russ is destroying the very populace the Great Crusade is attempting to liberate).

[The Either]

for me its Russ, Dorn, Corax and Horus ^_^

[MCCCXXXVII]

My favourite primarch is Perturabo, but out of the ones that have been portrayed so far, I would say Mortarion. My least favourite is Lion El'Johnson.

[Burias-Drak'shal]

I have to go with Russ & horus.

[Wrath of Terra]

Favourites so far have been, in no particular order;

 

Horus: Up until he falls how can you not like they guy? A guy like that, its no surprise so many followed him to damnation. Hell if I was there with him and didn't know what was coming I'd have followed him. All round badass.

 

Angron: Palpably oozes menace. When faced with malicious and inhuman xenos who better to crush them than the living embodiment of human rage, single-mindedness and will to win. And to paraphrase Khârn; don't mistake Angron (and by extention the World Eaters) directness for stupidity.

 

Russ: in particular Dan Abnett's version of Russ. "Remembrancers? Arm the bastards and they might capture a few worlds for us while they're at it". Again paraphrasing it but that's close enough. The portrayal of Russ in A Thousand Sons is an insult. If he was anymore one-dimensional the Wolf Guard might as well run around with a cardboard cut-out of Russ. It'd be better company at the very least.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Least favourite, again in no particular order;

 

Magnus: A lot of this can be laid at the writing in A Thousand Sons so if another author was to ever have a crack at Magnus I'll probably be more sympathetic to the Cyclops. But as it is he came across as completely pathetic. Arrogance beyond the point of it being a flaw or weakness. Complete unwillingness to acknowledge that the most powerful human ever, pretty much a demi-god MIGHT just know one or two things that he didn't. Didn't even have the conviction to let Russ and the Wolves finish the job of putting him and the Sons down despite moaning about letting them do it for ages and killing some of his Sons to prevent them warning the rest Russ was coming. An absolute joke of an excuse for a primarch.

 

The Lion: Yawn. Yawn. Yawn. "I lived in the woods you know!". Yawn. Yawn. Yawn. "I think I'm great, don't you think I'm great?!" Yawn. Yawn. Yawn. "I like secrets, do you like secrets?! Oh let's be secrecy pals!" Yawn. Yawn. Yawn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Depending on who gets the job I have high hopes Curze and Perterabo will rock fairly hard.

[Ashe Darke]

ADB said it will most likely be him dealing with the NL books and his current stuff on Curze is awesome so yeah, that book will rock hard.

[Midgard]

I think there are three categories of Primarchs so far in HH books, those fully realized, those only partially realized, and those whose appearance has been quite episodic. I am only going to categorize the Primarchs in the books and stories I've read - so no Corax here (as I'm yet to get "Raven's Flight"), and Dorn might have been better realized in some stories that I did not read yet.

 

In the first category are Horus, Magnus, Fulgrim, and Alpharius. In the second category, Lion El'Jonson, Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, Angron, and Mortarion. In the third category, Lorgar, Russ, Dorn, and every other Primarch that is barely mentioned.

 

The thing about the Primarchs is that they are not necessarily meant to be likeable. I see the point of HH series as showing them all to be flawed in some way or the other, and some of them really don't come across well. Magnus, for example, comes across as a supremely arrogant prick who is not "all there" - though his intentions might be good, he sounds more like a teenager that sneaks out of the house at night to go out and do drugs, and then is surprised when daddy dearest reprimands him for those joints of marijuana in his room.

 

Horus and Sanguinius appear to be two most likeable Primarchs so far, but that is because both of them are quite capable of putting on an air of humanity, more so than the others. It is no surprise that it is Horus Heresy from reading the character of Horus, while Sanguinius seems to be very human, and likeable because of that.

 

Alpharius, though perhaps not as well realized as others, is told more through his actions than through his own words. There is always a feeling that there is more to him than meets the eye, and a sense of very closely knit brotherhood within his Legion that has a very "with us or against us" opinion of the rest of the universe.

 

On to the second category... well, other than that I already covered Sanguinius. Ferrus Manus appears as somewhat of a dull character with less personality than the most - as if his emotional development was severely stunted at some point or the other. His emotions, and, in fact, those of many other Primarchs appear to mirror those of a pre-teen more than those of an adult. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but the impression I get of the Primarchs is less of true "renaissance men" and more of extremely successful athletes, whose failings of personality, intelligence, and judgement are masked through their athletic ability. In other words, they are less the mixture of Leonardo da Vinci and Alexander the Great and more a hybrid of Homer's Achilles and Tiger Woods.

 

Angron and Mortarion did not get a lot of spotlight so far, but of the two, Angron is far more interesting. In "After De'Shea", there is some surprising depth given to him, at least as much as was possible in a short story. He sounds like a man struggling to control himself, and more often than not lacking the necessary control - far more of a tragic character that could be developed more with additional books. Mortarion feels a bit one-dimensional; outside of his dislike of psykers, there is never a true feeling that he has any personality traits. There are hints of megalomania about him, but he is just never given a true personality.

 

Which now brings me to the Lion. Yes, it might be acceptable to present the Primarch primarily through the other characters' eyes, but I think that "Descent of Angels" and "Fallen Angels" missed a great opportunity to give the Lion a real personality. There were numerous attempts to do so in the novels, but they really fell flat, and I felt that in this case, inadequate portrayal of the Lion was not due to the flaws implied in his character, but due to the authors not giving him enough spotlight in the books about his Legion. Seeing the events through the eyes of Zahariel and Nemiel still resulted in enjoyable books (I enjoyed both despite not being a Dark Angels fanboy), but it also created an impression of Lion Ex Machina when it was required, as if the Lion himself was more of a plot device than a character.

 

Besides, the Lion did not have a Crowning Moment of Awesome, unlike pretty much every other "centerpiece" Primarch. Horus had a number of those, not all having to do with battle (his entrance alone would fit into this category). Fulgrim's moment came when he more or less schooled Ferrus Manus in dealing with the human/alien armada. Alpharius, well, the entire second half of "Legion" is one Crowning Moment of Awesome. Angron's breaking out from under the rubble to wreak devastation was something to behold. Even Magnus had an undeniable moment when he took down (what appeared to be) an Eldar Titan. Those things (in the context of HH books) showed that these Primarchs were really something other than humans or even Astartes - beings of towering power and capability. The Lion... well, his presence was too peripheral to the books about his own Legion.

 

Now, on to the third category. Lorgar and Dorn appeared very episodically, and I did not particularly care for either. Dorn's antics in "Flight of the Eisenstein" more or less presented him as a self-important psychotic, a child who read too many books on how heroes are supposed to act and overcompensates for it. Surprisingly, his appearance in "Horus Rising" was far more likeable, where he seemed far more reasonable. Lorgar's appearances in "A Thousand Sons" and "Scions of the Storm" show a sleazy side to him, almost like a used car salesman at a mafia-operated dealership (where you WILL buy a piece of junk even if you don't want to). Sor Talgron's impressions of Lorgar, especially earlier in the story, show a very flawed being, but there is not a sense of tragedy to him - hopefully ADB's "The First Heretic" will give Lorgar some depth and explain the roots of his religious belief, and how it integrated with his whole being (as I did not really get that impression from either of Lorgar's previous appearances).

 

Russ and Perturabo appear only episodically, with the former getting some spotlight in "A Thousand Sons", and the latter getting a very short scene which is amusing, but doesn't reveal very much about him. In "A Thousand Sons", Russ is more of a plot device than a character, and gives off an impression of being easily manipulated. He sounds like Angron minus the tragic feel of Angron (evident in "After De'Shea"). Then again, I shall wait for "Prospero Burns" before passing final judgement.

[Candleshoes]

Far and away, Alpharius-Omegon is my favorite Primarch:

 

For one who takes his rightful place at the side of the Emperor a mere two decades before the start of the Heresy, one might say he is in the most difficult place compared to all his brothers. He will never match the experience of the Lion, he will never match their honour rolls of Guilliman or the campaign merits of Russ. He will never grasp tactics as well as Dorn, be capable of building greatness with his hands like Vulkan or Ferrus. His perfection is far cry from what is attained in battle by Fulgrim, his fury no match for Angron, his ways not as encompassing as Kurze. The list of faults only gets bigger, what is left for the youngest son? What glory awaits the one who has neither the relationship with his father the others have, nor the time in life to amass the godlike achievments by his elder brothers?

 

He is argued to be the smartest Primarch of all, not in terms of knowledge possessed (a crown Magnus wears vainly) but how he actively uses his mind against everyone and everything. Pure, un-adulterated cunning given form, with a mind so quick and so sharp, you had best not allow any of your own faults or pride make themself known, even then, he'll know your lying. He is control. He is restraint. He kills with ruthless efficiency. There is a reason he only keeps his council with direct Blood, as truth is everything to equals. He knows where his loyalty lies, whether or not you do, whether or not you understand. His actions are his own. He is planning, he is study, he is subtle, he deals in whispers, falsehoods, myths, fears, confusion, hate, and weakness. He is raw potential, sheathed till the moment. The death he deals is not only against the body, but of the mind, the heart, and the soul. Few even among Primarchs could take so much away from an enemy, fewer still, able to justify such behaviour.

 

He is the only Primarch who asked Why. Who was capable of understanding the answer.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Far and away, Alpharius-Omegon is my favorite Primarch:

 

For one who takes his rightful place at the side of the Emperor a mere two decades before the start of the Heresy, one might say he is in the most difficult place compared to all his brothers. He will never match the experience of the Lion, he will never match their honour rolls of Guilliman or their campaign merits of Russ. He will never grasp tactics as well as Dorn, be capable of building greatness with his hands like Vulkan or Ferrus. His perfection is far cry from what is attained in battle by Fulgrim, his fury no match for Angron, his ways not as encompassing as Kurze. The list of faults only gets bigger, what is left for the youngest son? What glory awaits the one who has neither the relationship with his father the others have, nor the time in life to amass the godlike achievments by his elder brothers?

 

He is argued to be the smartest Primarch of all, not in terms of knowledge possessed (a crown Magnus wears vainly) but how he actively uses his mind against everyone and everything. Pure, un-adulterated cunning given form, with a mind so quick and so sharp, you had best not allow any of your own faults or pride make themself known, even then, he'll know your lying. He is control. He is restraint. He kills with ruthless efficiency. There is a reason he only keeps his council with direct Blood, as truth is everything to equals. He knows where his loyalty lies, whether or not you do, whether or not you understand. His actions are his own. He is planning, he is study, he is subtle, he deals in whispers, falsehoods, myths, fears, confusion, hate, and weakness. He is raw potential, sheathed till the moment. The death he deals is not only against the body, but of the mind, the heart, and the soul. Few even among Primarchs could take so much away from an enemy, fewer still, able to justify such behaviour.

 

He is the only Primarch who asked Why. Who was capable of understanding the answer.

 

...Because he's the hero the Imperium deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

 

WLK

[Candleshoes]

@WLK

 

Peddle your black nipple armour somewhere else.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@WLK

 

Peddle your black nipple armour somewhere else.

 

you got all the gold nipples covered?

i hope you have a sgt ed cullen

 

WLK

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

What taste. It's like hearing Denis Leary's act in a cancer ward.

[Walter Payton]

Favourite:

 

Lion El'Jonson

Rogal Dorn

Guilliman when he turns up

 

Least Favourite:

 

Russ

Magnus

Horus

[Legatus]

Has Guilliman even appeared in the Horus Heresy books yet?

[A D-B]

Has Guilliman even appeared in the Horus Heresy books yet?

 

I'm on it.

[Ashe Darke]

Here he comes to save to day!

[Legatus]

Damn it, now I am excited about the Horus Heresy series. ;) Though if I remember correctly, ADB does a Word bearers book. So I fear Guilliman might not be presented in the most favourable manner. ;)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Damn it, now I am excited about the Horus Heresy series. :P Though if I remember correctly, ADB does a Word bearers book. So I fear Guilliman might not be presented in the most favourable manner. B)

 

he isnt graham mcneil.

i am pretty sure ADB knows a strong central character needs a good counter to oppose him.

 

WLK

[Aqatone]

Has Guilliman even appeared in the Horus Heresy books yet?

 

I'm on it.

 

FASTER!

 

Are you done yet?

 

No?

 

Why not?

 

Just in-case no one latches on, I am being sarcastic.

[Legatus]

I don't think you mean "sarcastic". :P

 

As much as I admire ADBs devotion to adherence to established lore, and as much as I am hoping that he is not among the authors working for GW that "don't get Ultramarines", I am affraid his main focus will be on presenting an engaging and believable narrative of how the Word Bearers turned to Chaos, and some part of that will probably be their hatred for the Ultramarines (as described in the Index Astartes). I guess most of what will be said in the book(s) will be from their point of view. And if we get to see Guilliman himself in that book, he might act so as to confirm those views. (You see I am quite the pessimist.)

 

Still, I am excited. B)

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

If theres any more Ultramarine books that are horribly written my body is going to convert itself into raw energy and destroy the universe

[Aqatone]

Yeah, no pressure Mr. Dembski!

[Legatus]

;)

 

I am pretty sure he has all the book's details figured out/wrapped up by now. And there seems to be a craving for Word Bearers stories, so I don't doubt that his books will be well received. Still, perhaps I should stop going on about the book before it is even out.

[Ashe Darke]

It's ok Legatus, you have every reason to be excited about it.

 

Anyone know what the first HH audio book is like? The Dark King sounds interesting as it sounds like it has Curze in it. Would be good to see if my prediction about him being the best HH Primarch so far is true.

[Monstra Sumus]

* prepares for the hail of flaming, scathing, anti-opinion posts about to be hurled his way. *

 

I am probably one of the only members of this wonderful board and our much appreciated hobby, who absolutely, positively freaking hates the Space Wolves.

 

Russ, is a muppet. This is all personal opinion which i'm entitled to, as you are all to yours.

 

I actually prefer the portrayal of McNeils Space Wolves in A Thousand Sons.

I love the idea of them being superstitious hulking barbarians without a shred of resepct for culture. The Vikings were raiders and thieves, brigands and destroyers of those who opposed them. This is what the Space Wolves should have been and were portrayed as in ATS. I really enjoyed reading the descriptions about Russ being a semi-neolithic bad arse who wanted nothing more than the complete destruction of his enemy. 'Unleashing the Wolves' is how I invision them, the same as the World Eaters, when you want something totally anhilated you call upon The Red Angel and the Wolf King. They were designed to destroy other Legions, I dont think hearty beardy beer swilling warriors portrayed as loveable rogues and having a soft spot for the little guy is what the Emperor had in mind when creating a Primarch destroyer.

 

I hate the vision that the Space Wolves are a jolly bunch of enthusiastic 'Vikings'.

 

I love the vision that the Space Wolves are a pack of barely controllable killing machines who either demand complete complaince or tear your world down around you, pretty much like the actual Viking tribes of history who did infact beat, murder and pillage their way throughout Europe.

 

I found the new Space Wolves dex to be even worse than Wards abuse of the Vanilla codex. I was shaking my head knowing that all around the world the Space Wolf players were instantly pulling their 'beards' on and the majority quibbling at Thunderwolf cavalry. Note, how I said majority, not all.

 

I whole heartedly support the idea that Russ was nothing more than a closed mind savage with a pack of rabid, war hungry barbarians at his heels and not some comic releif who can be found in the pub when he's not looking for his sword.

 

That said, I'm a Blood Angels (Succesor) player and i'm utterly appaled at my own damn Codex. I hate the idea of the Blood Angels being pretty, golden, space Lestats. I have always invisioned Sanguinius as an Angel of War, smiting the Emperors enemies from on high and using his gifts of foresight to bring utter ruin to his foes, almost like a slightly more stable Angron. I have always and will always invision the Blood Angels to be blood thirsty vampires who revel in the constant slaughter because its the only thing that makes them feel alive and worthy of being what they are.

 

I suppose I just like my Grimdark factor to 40k. The Heresy is a tragedy of Epic proportions and for a Primarch to bring such utter devastation upon anothers home world so much so, as to kill every man, woman and child and torch his cities, he needs to be how McNeil wrote Russ.

 

And I'm not very fond of McNeils writing either.

 

All of the negatives aside, I am eagerly awaiting Guillimans portrayal and how Abnett is going to invision Magnus, because I love the Thousand Sons and Ahriman is my favourite character of the series so far next to Garro.

 

Thanks for reading, if you've got this far have a cookie. * hands out the good kind of internet cookies *

 

You may cue the Space Wolf murder-make now. :o