how would you aproach this

[postal105]

Rules of Engagement

This Combat Patrol Campaign is a 6-week offensive in which players vie for territory on the Planetary Empires World Map. Players may spend up to 500 points for army construction following the Army Composition guidelines. You may change your army list at any time. Your army must always conform to the Army Composition guidelines.

 

Army Composition

o Armies cannot be more that 500 points.

o The Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition Rules will be used.

o Armies can be constructed using any valid Codex.

o Forge World/Imperial Armor units are not allowed.

o You must have at least one Troop choice.

o You may spend the rest of your points from anywhere in your Codex (standard Force Org. does not apply.)

o You may take a maximum of 1 HQ choice but it is not required.

o Armies are not required to take mandatory unit choices. All other unit restrictions apply (i.e. 0-1).

o No model can have more than 3 wounds (except models with Swarm universal special rule.)

o Psykers may be used but may not use any power requiring a psychic test.

o No 2+ saves.

o No Special or Unique characters.

o Vehicles cannot have an Armor Value greater than 34. Add your Front, Rear, & Side (counted once) Armor Values.

 

Army Commanders

You are not required to take an HQ choice. However, the patrol should still have a commander who gives the orders and against which leadership tests are made. This, of course, would be the most senior ranking figure. In the case of two figures being of an equal rank then the player may choose which is the patrol's leader, and only that figure may confer its leadership bonus to friendly squads.

 

Battles & Scoring

Each week players can play up to 3 scoring games and as many open games as they wish. Scoring games must be played against 3 different opponents. Each week players must play at least one of their scoring games against a unique player*. Players may play the same opponent in open games but not consecutively.

*A unique player is a player that you have never played previously in this campaign.

 

Special Rules

Specialist Troopers: Each player is allowed to pick one model in their army as being a 'specialist' that benefits from one of the universal special rules found of page 74 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Each player picks their specialist out load at the start of each game, before the armies deploy. You must say which rule applies when you declare the model is a specialist. For example, you might say "This model is a specialist Tank Hunter", or "This specialist is Fearless" and so on.

 

Games will be played on a 4'x4' table. Scenario and deployment as per standard Warhammer 40,000 rules.

 

i first tried out 5 gray hunters with wolf standard ,flamer ,power weapon, mark of wolfen in a razorback lead by a wolf priest with the saga of wolfkin a predator with heavy bolter sponsons and a dreadnought and a pack of 5 fenrisian wolves it did not work out so well

 

ideas?

[Uncooked]

I'v just made a quick list idea;

 

100 - Wolf Priest

95 - 6 Grey Hunters with Melta Gun

155 - 9 Grey Hunters, Melta Gun, Mark of the Wulfen

35 - Rhino

115 - 5 Long Fangs, 4 Missile Launchers (or pred and + 1 Grey Hunter to the smaller Grey Hunter unit)

 

:) Happy Hunting!

[Grimtooth]

I would almost try and fit in a Lone Wolf just for the free USR and then give him another.

[Schertenleib]

Okay so I'm new and stupid....

 

In a game this small do you have to have a Long Fang Sgt? Could you just grab 2-3 Missile Launchers and run with it?

[Uncooked]

The Squad Leader for the Long Fangs are compulsory, you must always have one.

 

He's also the guy that allows for split fire to happen, so he hes not there then your not allowed to split fire.

[Adarul Greystalker]

Just a few ideas at random here:

 

Firstly, I would take a wolf guard battle leader and use him as a specialist. Tool him up a bit, but don't go overboard. I like to use a wolf claw and storm shield on mine and that seems like it would be appropriate here. A thunderwolf mount for him could either be very good or cost too many points and then he could either die or get tied up somehow, so only go that route if you're sure you can protect him and the rest of your army has all of your bases covered without him. Giving a character like that furious charge or feel no pain or something like that could be very tough. If you would rather use a wolf priest to enhance a close combat squad, that's also cool. Even a lone wolf would work fine if you'd rather not spend many points on a character, but they're much harder to protect from shooting.

 

I would probably go with a pack of grey hunters with a plasma or flamer in a transport (possibly a razorback) with the wolf guard battle leader that I mentioned and then two packs of long fangs. You'll have a ton of firepower and a mobile squad that's good in close combat, but can also shoot when it needs to.

 

Of course, if you're itching for close combat, it certainly wouldn't satisfy that need. In that case, I'd suggest blood claws with a wolf priest and a dreadnought. You can bet that your opponents won't have much anti-tank in this scenario, so a venerable dread would be very hard to kill. Two of them would be very scary, but that's also a ton of points in this scenario, so probably not recommended. I'd go with an assault cannon, a heavy flamer, and extra armor. If you do take a venerable dread, make sure you put your troop squad in a rhino or razorback, as it'll likely go relatively unscathed as your opponent pours fire into the dreadnought.

 

It sounds like a fun scenario, although looking at the lists that I've just suggested, I'm a bit worried about relatively unbalanced armies. That size game and the other restrictions sort of encourage loading up on certain things at the expense of balance, but they have their advantages as well.

 

As always, I hope for hard-fought victories against honorable opponents. Be sure to share the stories of your inevitable conquests with the rest of us :)

[VorpalDoom]

6 Grey Hunters:: Plasmagun, Razorback

6 Grey Hunters:: Plasmagun, Razorback

1 Thunderwolf Cavalry:: Storm Shield, Thunderhammer

1 Thunderwolf Cavalry:: Storm Shield, Thunderhammer

 

500 points.

 

 

Specialist would depend on who you're playing. If someone rolls up with something that can insta-gib a thunderwolf, you may want to give one eternal warrior, and send it at that.

Of course, you can drop a Grey Hunter, in favor of Mark of the Wulfen, or a Power Weapon, your preference.

If you exchange a model for one with a special weapon, furious charge may be worth it at that point.

Possibly Relentless on a plasmagunner.

 

 

Here's another variation that gives a consistent choice for that USR you can grant a model.

 

6 Grey Hunters:: Plasmagun, Power Weapon, Razorback

6 Grey Hunters:: Plasmagun, Power Weapon, Razorback

1 Thunderwolf Cavalry:: Storm Shield, Thunderhammer

1 Lone Wolf:: Thunderhammer, Stormshield -- Give the Fleet USR.

 

This variation gives you 1 less scoring unit to feed your opponent, that has similar mobility to that of the thunderwolf, and with the points saved, it's easier to flush out the grey hunter units.

 

 

 

I prefer reliable redundancy, and 10 S10 attacks on the charge from those two guys is nothing to scoff at. Only a small handful of special characters can scoff at that. Not to mention they can get across the field very quickly.

 

Some people cringe at the idea of a single model with a 3+ save, with only two wounds... but hug that terrain, and negate as much fire as possible. Many opponents don't realize how hard they actually hit.

[Simo429]

I'v just made a quick list idea;

 

100 - Wolf Priest

95 - 6 Grey Hunters with Melta Gun

155 - 9 Grey Hunters, Melta Gun, Mark of the Wulfen

35 - Rhino

115 - 5 Long Fangs, 4 Missile Launchers (or pred and + 1 Grey Hunter to the smaller Grey Hunter unit)

 

;) Happy Hunting!

i like this list but wouldnt it make sense to have 5 and 10 grey hunters for the extra special weapon?

[Grey Mage]

I would take:

 

Venerable Dreadnaught- Assault Cannon, EA, HF, SoM, WTT- 210pts. *Leader* *Tank Hunter or Prefered Enemy or Hit and Run*

10 Grey Hunters- 2x PR, PF, WT- 195pts.

5 GHs- Meltagun, PW- 95pts.

[Uncooked]

I'v just made a quick list idea;

 

100 - Wolf Priest

95 - 6 Grey Hunters with Melta Gun

155 - 9 Grey Hunters, Melta Gun, Mark of the Wulfen

35 - Rhino

115 - 5 Long Fangs, 4 Missile Launchers (or pred and + 1 Grey Hunter to the smaller Grey Hunter unit)

 

:D Happy Hunting!

i like this list but wouldnt it make sense to have 5 and 10 grey hunters for the extra special weapon?

 

Not if you wanted the wolf priest to fit in the same rhino as that unit. Unfortunatly it's one of the negatives of having the 10 guys in one rhino/ drop pod.

 

Think of it like this, no other space marine army can have 2 assault weapons in it as a troops choice :D

[Mammon]

Grey Hunters will be your breadwinners.

 

I played a similar set up a year ago and it was my grey hunters and scouts who earned their points back every round. As far as vehicles keep it cheap. Putting a lot of points into a single-one-lucky-shot-and-poof vehicle is a big risk at 500pts. Long Fangs or a mobile unit of Grey Hunters can put on the same amount of hurt but will have the benefit of cover and more wounds.

 

Stay Mobile. Maneuvering is critical in these small games. Be sure your hitting the enemy when and where you want to. Speeders, Bikers, and APCs are great for this. Speeders are more of a risk thanks to armor 10 but their movement and ability to ignore terrain makes them great flankers or harassers.

[S. Bloodhowl]

Hit them hard and fast:

 

10 blood claws (150), drop pod (35) -185 points

10 blood claws (150), drop pod (35) -185 points

Iron Priest (50), Bike(35), 3 Cyber Wolves (45) -130 points

[Ikken]

I'v just made a quick list idea;

 

100 - Wolf Priest

95 - 6 Grey Hunters with Melta Gun

155 - 9 Grey Hunters, Melta Gun, Mark of the Wulfen

35 - Rhino

115 - 5 Long Fangs, 4 Missile Launchers (or pred and + 1 Grey Hunter to the smaller Grey Hunter unit)

 

:lol: Happy Hunting!

i like this list but wouldnt it make sense to have 5 and 10 grey hunters for the extra special weapon?

 

Not if you wanted the wolf priest to fit in the same rhino as that unit. Unfortunatly it's one of the negatives of having the 10 guys in one rhino/ drop pod.

 

Think of it like this, no other space marine army can have 2 assault weapons in it as a troops choice ;)

 

 

i like that list as well but would drop the long fangs for a scout squad , they are alot more maneuverable , in a small game , the LF won't shoot on t1 usualy as they have to move to get set up , but turn 3 most stuff will be engaged and they won't have much to shoot at . so they could end up watching the battle with out affecting it . I remember the 500 point games i use to play as being very fast and highly maneuverable games .

a scout squad with a pp , melta and pwr weap will deal with any of the likely tanks that you will see easily and be maneuverable enough in combat to stay close to the action . ne other option which may be worth taking would be a hunter killer missile on the rhino , you could drop the PP on the scout squad to get it ,but it would allow you rhino to engage targets turn 1 and with BS4 you have a 50 50 chance it will take out an enemy tank but it is a gamble . just remember to use it early , i always forget to use it and by turn 3 my rhinos are toast and i wasted the points .

 

sounds like a fun tournament

[Simo429]

Not if you wanted the wolf priest to fit in the same rhino as that unit. Unfortunatly it's one of the negatives of having the 10 guys in one rhino/ drop pod.

 

Think of it like this, no other space marine army can have 2 assault weapons in it as a troops choice :lol:

ahh I see not something I often think about because the only squad leader I have is ragnar with a pack of blood claws are in a crusader

[Uncooked]

i like that list as well but would drop the long fangs for a scout squad , they are alot more maneuverable , in a small game , the LF won't shoot on t1 usualy as they have to move to get set up , but turn 3 most stuff will be engaged and they won't have much to shoot at . so they could end up watching the battle with out affecting it . I remember the 500 point games i use to play as being very fast and highly maneuverable games .

a scout squad with a pp , melta and pwr weap will deal with any of the likely tanks that you will see easily and be maneuverable enough in combat to stay close to the action . ne other option which may be worth taking would be a hunter killer missile on the rhino , you could drop the PP on the scout squad to get it ,but it would allow you rhino to engage targets turn 1 and with BS4 you have a 50 50 chance it will take out an enemy tank but it is a gamble . just remember to use it early , i always forget to use it and by turn 3 my rhinos are toast and i wasted the points .

 

sounds like a fun tournament

 

Long fangs are to provide cover support, what makes you think that there wont be the perfect building to set up in? Once I have all the angles that I want covered with my long fangs they do not move for the entire game.

 

Scouts in such a small game is a lesser choice IMO, as you don't know when there going to show up, be it your second or last turn, and there is always a chance they'll turn up on the wrong board edge - I never take scouts in small games because of their inability to be reliable when you need them

[VorpalDoom]

Bloodclaws are a poor choice for this, they have no reall way to widdle down a nearby unit, 10 bolt pistols won't do it, and they will recieve a huge amount of incoming fire, or get charged, negating their purpose. Grey hunters will do the same thing, and be in a better standing in just about every situation after disembarking from a drop pod.

 

Iron Priest on a bike with 3 cyberwolves? I can't say I like the idea. 6 inch move, 6 inch charge, no run...? Hardly mobile, no ranged weaponry worth mentioning. Your highest strength weapon is 8, and that's on a very slow unit. Though the unit may be fairly tough. Besides, I don't think 2+ armor saves are allowed, and the Iron Priest has a 2+.

 

 

I see a lot of talk from Long Fangs, and anyone that's used them should know they're really only successful when used en masse. We're talkin 2 full strength missile units. Then they're worth their points. Else they're too small, and a few stray shots can ruin their potential. You can't rely on 3-4 missiles to deal with someone's Dread, or Pred. Or hell, even a Chimera. Considering a 4 foot table, there's no real need for long range weapons, as there's minimal movement on the sides of the table.

 

I'd say they were effective at this low point cost, provided the missions supported it.

 

 

 

The thing only gripe you may have with cavalry, in my suggestion, is that they cannot go up ruins, hence the Lone Wolf's advantage, and possible use in such a list. Similarly, the possibility of leaving one of the grey hunter units behind, having the lone wolf hop in the empty razorback, and take off down the field. he's scary and isn't worth a damn thing in 1/3 of the standard missions, and considering how tough he is to kill, and how much he can kill, it's a threat your opponent must deal with.

 

The problem with the short charge range, is the possibility, and high liklihood of being within some kind of unit's double-tap range, which will certainly put the hurt on quickly. The Thunderwolf just about negates the possibility of being flak-fired down before getting into combat.

 

The presence of tanks full of grey hunters barreling down the field gives your opponent's anti-tank something to shoot at, instead of your thunderwolves, you force them to make a choice, and either way, the results will hurt for them.

[lunchb0x]

Wolf Guard Battle Leader - Frost Blade, Melta Bombs, Bolt Pistol

 

Blood Claws - 15 - Power fist , Flamers (x2)

 

Grey Hunters - 10 - Power fist, Plasma Guns(x2), Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard

 

Grey hunters take objective, Blood Claws and Battle Leader take the blunt of the shots and get in to hth.

[VorpalDoom]

The single character that can be gibbed by a fist is never, ever, a good choice.

 

If Grey Hunters are there to hold an objective, your opponent will have 1 unit to worry about. In small games, target saturation is your friend. Make your opponent choose what to shoot at. 16 marines is indeed hard to widdle down, even if they're moving 6-12 inches a turn... factoring in some terrain, and the average tends to be less, you're giving a mobile opponent, or one with any kind of fire base a huge advantage by foot slogging. Even 20 lasguns can, and will put the hurt on that unit of bloodclaws. Remember, even at 16, all you need to lose is 4 guys and you're forced to take a ld 9 leadership. expect to take one turn 2, 3 and if you haven't made combat by then, which against a skilled opponent that has little in regards to CC, you won't, you will certainly take another tes turn 4.

 

 

Lack of mobility in that list hurts it, you need mobility.

 

Even against say, a blood angels player, maybe they took a landspeeder, he would be foolish to advance at you, your max range is 24", if you're stationary. Stay out of 12" with units, and you've already won the game.

 

 

Here's a list using a Blood Angels list where CC is it's primary focus.

 

2 Of these units:

5 Assault Marines:: Meltagun, Power Fist, Hand Flamer, Razorback

Followed by a third, with a sergeant that has a combat shield or meltabombs.

 

 

That list has very powerful close combat capabilities at this low point cost, but it has enough ranged firepower to help fight off hordes, high toughness creatures, tough vehicles, and the mobility to deal with foot sloggers.

 

In a game against that list, the BA player would simply sit, and slowly back up as you got closer, and then split his force, forcing you to chase one. The grey hunters could advance and be aggressive as well, but 3 TL heavy bolters pounding the blood claws for 3-4 turns is going to hurt. You should expect to lose 1-2 claws per turn from shooting, bringing the unit to half strength before it hits combat. Now the numbers are just about even, and the chances of you getting the charge are slim to none. Dealing with a pile of bolt pistol shots, followed by the possibility of S5-I5 attacks will ruin your day, and your Battle Leader won't be able to stop them all. The Grey hunters will have to follow the blood claws in for them to stand a chance, leaving the objective open to a more mobile opponent.

 

 

Other armies do the shooting better... you will get swallowed and spat out as muck by nids. even Iguard command units with meltas or plasmas will tear you up.

 

 

I guess the whole point is... never foot slog. It's worth the cost of a couple marines to make sure you get across the board and don't lose half the unit to shooting... especially in small games.

[lunchb0x]

LOLOL never foot slog. oh you.

[VorpalDoom]

There really is no reason to not foot slog these days. Especially since the codex change. transport is dirt cheap, you negate a massive amount of firepower by being mounted, and with enough mounted units, you saturate their anti-tank, and force them to pick and choose. You need the mobility. Wolves just don't have the capability to foot slog well compared to armies like Guard, Orks, or Eldar. We don't have the numbers required to make it work well.

[postal105]

Hit them hard and fast:

 

10 blood claws (150), drop pod (35) -185 points

10 blood claws (150), drop pod (35) -185 points

Iron Priest (50), Bike(35), 3 Cyber Wolves (45) -130 points

problem here is the drop pod exceeds the 34 armor limit as there 12 from t 12 side and 12 max for a total of 37

[lunchb0x]

There really is no reason to not foot slog these days. Especially since the codex change. transport is dirt cheap, you negate a massive amount of firepower by being mounted, and with enough mounted units, you saturate their anti-tank, and force them to pick and choose. You need the mobility. Wolves just don't have the capability to foot slog well compared to armies like Guard, Orks, or Eldar. We don't have the numbers required to make it work well.

 

 

;) :P :P

 

Lets see...my foot slogging list some how managed to beat down a mech list.... that had 8 razorbacks in it, a land raider, 2 dakka preads, Dreadnought in drop pod and a vindicator...and I only lost a squad of Wolf Guard.

 

Foot slogging is the way to go.

[Grey Mage]

How in the names of all the Aesir do you think that ELDAR have an easier time footslogging than we do?

 

About 85% of their units are not only more expensive than ours, their average weapon distance is shorter AND their armor saves are worse accross the board.

 

I love my Foot-slogging Eldar, I do, but comparing that to SWs as a superior option is nutso.

[VorpalDoom]

It's playstyle, and how your opponents respond. I can't see how a full foot slogging SW army won with minimal casualties against a razorback heavy list. Maybe it's local meta game, but footslogging won't work for marines unless it's a shooty army, and wolves need armor to be shooty.

 

As for eldar, it's how you use the list, lots of dire avengers, 3 wraith lords, good old eldy, a counter-charge unit, and a big guardian unit streched out across the front of the dire avenger units. Toss in an avatar for even more target saturation.

 

The model count is high, the mobility is high, and you are forced to pick and choose targets. Assault armies must deal with this fearless (thank's avatar!), guided guardian unit in front of the army, there's not really much of a way to avoid it.

 

 

 

Like i said, in response to how my opponents play, footslogging wolves would never work. 13th co. only worked because of gate, and scout, without those as key mobility tools, the army was just too slow. Even with running these days, that lack of firepower pushed out at 500 points from your own side isn't going to cut it, especially if it's tied up in two units with zero shooting, you have no way to respond to any opponent's shooting. You'll have to move 25-30 inches to get to anything, provided they stand still, and are on ground level. to even get within a shooting range, you'll be expecting at least 2 movement phases, likely 3. and weither or not you go frist can be a defining factor in your success.

 

Even in larger games, 2000 points, if you're on foot, against an army with a decent amount of firepower, even if it's just heavy bolters, you should lose 10+ marines a turn without fail, provided their rolling isn't awful.

 

Now, I'm not just spouting off, and I have seen, played against and played footslogging marines and other armies, and I've found being meched up, and shooting, especially with wolves, to be far superior. Wolves are good in combat no matter what you do to them, so I figured, give them big guns, and lots of them. It's worked wonders.

 

 

 

But, as I said before, maybe it's your selection of opponents, your local meta game, or just the overall playstyle of you and your opponents that would allow footslogging wolves to work.

 

I just don't see it being insanely effective in a 500 point game with two units.

[lunchb0x]

oh you. your logic is so funny. ;)

 

ON average, I lose 3-4 marines a turn,unless I get into hand to hand..then its a different story. :D