how would you aproach this

[Grey Mage]

I do have to wonder why your afraid of gaurdians, why anyone cares if theyre fearless or not, and how that matters to their survivability. As an Eldar player of over a decade in tournaments in friendly games: Gaurdians, suck.

 

As for SWs, Im wondering how Razorbacks are stopping you from walking up and thrashing your opponent? Does your gaming group refuse to use cover and your not any good with armor saves?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i always foot slog.

its creative use of terrain and cover that allows me my moderate success.

 

WLK

[VorpalDoom]

It's not that guardians are scary, it's that they're a road block, a speed bump, one that buys the eldar player another turn of shooting with the brunt of their force, which is a lot more devistating than some lasguns.

 

 

As for getting into combat without suffering through 2-3 turns of shooting, how's that possible when your maximum move is 12", provided you're avoiding terrain, or rolling 6s for difficult terrain, plus rolling 6s for your run? someone with guns over 24" range will indeed be killing off marines, cover or not.

 

 

 

Fact of the matter is, a small array of heavy bolters firing into marines will indeed kill them after a small number of turns, marines aren't as tough as you may think.

 

Cover has nothing to do with it, cover slows you down, and buys the shooter more time to shoot, position and counter-charge. even with clever placement, a mounted list is more mobile, thus can more easily swipe objectives, and easily avoid a unit with an effective range of 18 inches, assuming some fire from a pile of BS 3 bolt pistols against some AV 11 is frightening ;) ... even two of them.

 

 

Even with clever use of terrain, mobile firepower from many inexpensive vehicles... is, well mobile. Autocannons and heavy bolters will pick away at unmounted marines, and certainly kill a cheap transport's cost before they could kill a cheap transport.

[Grey Mage]

Thats a horrible use for gaurdians... you dont send 3,000 year old gardners out to die, and you dont spend 8pts a model on a meat shield when those points are better spent on something thats actually killy. Shame on those eldar players, and may Khaine remove his grace from them.

 

As for getting into combat without suffering through 2-3 turns of shooting, how's that possible when your maximum move is 12", provided you're avoiding terrain, or rolling 6s for difficult terrain, plus rolling 6s for your run? someone with guns over 24" range will indeed be killing off marines, cover or not.

Again, proper use of terrain. The enemy cannot shoot what he cannot see. You dont have to be in the terrain to keep it between you and the enemy, to deny LOS or mandate cover saves to your forces.

 

If he cannot see me until I am in range to fire, I can minimise my own casualties while maximizing their initial effect on the enemy. Long Fangs, Dreadnaughts, and Landspeeders hit the artillery early followed by enemy transports as soon as possible to slow my opponent down. Plasmarifles set up cover support positions and hit secondairy threats, while melta packs and those who dont have a proper target to go after advance to the next cover zone by the swiftest route they can, until I can reach assault or have set up a living fortress wherein my opponent is in range of the majority of my firepower and either needs to come to me or step it up with their own shooting.

 

Autocannons dont kill marines very well, though heavy bolters do a somewhat better job due to high rate of fire... Starcannons, Missile Launchers.... these are aided by cover. Mostly what a footslogging force fears is ordnance barrage weapons.

 

90 Marines at 2k is enough to get almost any job done, and we dont need transports to do it either.

[Ryzouken]

90 at 2k? Hah! I ran an UM list at 1500 points that was 80 troopers strong. 130 pt HQ, 6 squads of troops @ 160 ish apiece, a 250 pt assault squad, and 9 bare arse, nakid Devastators for pushing enemy deployments back and holding objectives (4th Ed.) I had 3 total lascannons and 3 plasma guns in my entire army, those and two powerfists were my entire anti tank arsenal. Fun part was, that list only lost to Necrons and other UM armies and only if they did the AoE morale test inducers. Stupid Fear of the Darkness. -.-

 

That said, I'd approach the 50 point combat patrol army like a couple of the others: big scary S10 Power Fists/Thunder Hammers and troops to hold objectives. Though I'd like to note that not allowing psykers to use their powers is kinda... :)

[Grey Mage]

Yeah... the psycker bit threw me too.

 

Good to see you again Ryzouken.

[Ryzouken]

Yeah... the psycker bit threw me too.

 

Good to see you again Ryzouken.

 

Good to be back, Mage. How're the pups doin? Got any tales to share?

[Grey Mage]

Yeah... the psycker bit threw me too.

 

Good to see you again Ryzouken.

 

Good to be back, Mage. How're the pups doin? Got any tales to share?

 

Pretty good, steady stream of new faces, 13nth co project started up, no particularly blood brawls. *shrugs*.

 

Oh, and wiped out about 2k of Tau this week with 1250pts of DPing wolves, that was fun :D.

[lunchb0x]

Blah blah blah blah blah blah I think I am the best and know everything, and cant let someone else have a different play style then me!!! I MUST PROVE THEM WRONG!!!! I MUUUUSSSSTTTT!!!!!!!!!! blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

 

Thats about all I am hearing.

 

Anyone else?

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Well..lets see...this is what i would use if i were going to try this.Im just a young pup but I think this stands a pretty good shot.

 

Wolf guard battle leader with combi melta and storm shield. 105

5 grey hunters with meltagun,mark of the wulfen and wolf standard 110

put them both in a razorback with lascannon/twinlinked plasmagun, with storm bolter,dozer. 90

Lone wolf with stormshield and mark of the wulfen,with two fenris wolves. Make him the specialist with infiltrate. 85

6 scouts with 5 sniper rifles and a heavy bolter 110.

 

Your scouts and Lone wolf both use the infiltrate to get close or to get a good highpoint. you start your razorback in cover,with your leader beside it. you pop him in the beginning of your first turn,and then you use the lascannon to pop whatever armor they have. After that you got the razorback firing the twin linked plasma,the storm bolter and the lascannon every round. use your snipers to pin down whatever squad you think will be the most trouble. (5 pinning tests a round,plus good chance of getting some kills with the support of the heavy bolter) use your lone wolf to run rampant and get into a combat with the squad you viewed as vulnerable. he will either win quick or keep them tied up the entire game as with the glorious death rules he also gets feel no pain and fearless.and he has an invulnerable save thats the best you can get with the game rules not to mention the two bullet sponge wolves. if they get too close to your razorback,pop out the squad behind it and throw up smoke so your tank and troops both have cover,then next round have your squad wipe the floor with them using the wolf standard.

[DV8]

Both mechanized and footslogging are valid playstyles. It all depends on your metagame, your own personal playstyle, and what you are most comfortable/familiar with. I play primarily mechanized Space Marines, but I have a few years experience with footslogging Deathwing (4th Edition) and I can say with absolute certainty they can bring the pain. No one method is better than the other. Playing either requires different tactics/strategies, and much different tools to complete the task at hand. I will say from personal experience, though, that footslogging is a FAR more punishing route to take. One thing I learnt from playing Deathwing is that you cannot waste a turn of movement, shooting or assault. Every mistake you make will take you two to recover from.

 

Back on topic, the Psykers not being able to use powers requiring a Leadership test is stupid. The only armies that have that capability are Eldar (Warlocks) and Tyranids (although I think with the new codex most, if not all their powers require tests now).

 

At 500 points it gets tricky as to how you want to play it. There are a couple things to keep in mind, however:

 

• At nothing over 3 wounds, that means there are no Monstrous creatures EDIT: my mistake, Wraithlords are 3 wounds so they break this rule
  
• No special or named characters means that most of the scary combat monsters are taken straight out
  
• With no armor over combined 34, the heaviest thing you can expect to face is a Dreadnought, Predator, Vindicator, Defiler (unless they've recently upped the front armor to AV13), or Wave Serpent
  
• No 2+ Saves means you won't have to worry about Assault Terminators, meaning the hardest thing you'll come up against is anything packing a Storm Shield, or a 4+ Inv save (say from an Iron Halo or a Rosarius)
  
• The nothing over 3 wounds, no 2+ saves, and no named characters means that the only Toughness 5 you're bound to encounter are Necron Destroyers, Bloodcrushers, Thunderwolves, or Ogryns, and the only Toughness 6 you're bound to encounter are Hive Guard, Tyrant Guard or Wraithguard. EDIT: alas, Wraithlords are Toughness 8, and you may encounter a few...
  
• The hardest fight you will have is Tau. The plethora of Crisis suits they can take and the amount of mobile firepower they can mount on those things border on rediculous. And with these kind of restrictions at this low points level, Crisis Suits up the ante a considerable amount
  
• Tyranids will be your easiest fight. With nothing over 3 wounds allowed, it means the only Synapse they will have is Warriors. Take those out and the game is yours. Unless it's all Warriors. In which case gun them down, since Warriors are easy as pie to take out. Watch out for Hive Guard though, since they don't require LoS and pack some mean S8 firepower
  

 

Elites // Lone Wolf, Mark of the Wulfen: 35 pts

 

Elites // Lone Wolf, Mark of the Wulfen: 35 pts

 

Elites // Dreadnought: 120 pts

- Multi-Melta, Saga of Majesty

 

Troops // 10 Grey Hunters: 155 pts

- 2 Meltaguns

 

Troops // 10 Grey Hunters: 155 pts

- 2 Meltaguns

 

Total: 500 pts

 

 

With only Leadership 8, the Dreadnought acts as your foci and with Saga of Majesty can help hold the line to ensure your units stay in the fight. With judicious use of cover, you're packing enough Melta weaponry to deal with most armor you'll encounter. The scariest thing you'll face is either a Defiler or a Vindicator making a beeline for you, in which case they have to get close and within range of your Dreadnought. You can mitigate damage from a Predator again by using terrain to your advantage. All the Meltas also means you can pop most characters you encounter (even if they have an Invulnerable save, all they have to fail is one). If not, your Dreadnought can deal with them.

 

Lone Wolves work in tandem to tackle units in combat, with your Grey Hunters providing support.

 

Alternatively:

 

Elites // Dreadnought: 105 pts

- Multi-Melta

 

Troops // 8 Grey Hunters: 125 pts

- 1 Meltagun

 

Fast Attack // Land Speeder Typhoon: 90 pts

 

Fast Attack // Land Speeder Typhoon: 90 pts

 

Fast Attack // Land Speeder Typhoon: 90 pts

 

Total: 500 pts

 

Similar principle as above, only your focus is to keep the Typhoons at range, obliterating your enemy with firepower (they're fragile but pack a punch), while your Dreadnought and Grey Hunters either support the Typhoons, or run as distractions/vanguard to draw fire away from your Speeder support.

 

 

DV8

[Grey Mage]

It might come up... Wraithlords are only 3 wounds and a 3+ save, so you could see a couple of those. It makes me a little embarassed to say this, but 3 of them with very basic weapons, a farseer, and 2 troops is doable in 500pts. Though two Fire prisms is probly worse.

[postal105]

well so far i have taken on imperial guard that were traitors, tau and several of marines be them chaos or fellow loyal space marines along with one nid player and he had a unit of warriors with prime in it and some other bugs i had a draw to the imp guard wiped out the tau and got annihilated by ultras(my dice went south) the bug player pummeled me. as i was not ready for that many large critters. but all in all my wolves have made Russ proud and fought hard but that is how it gos some days and as i have yet to face the 1 eldar player i am looking for a good battle their.

 

and thank you all fro the input as i have taken some of your ideas and used them in conjunction with ideas of my own. and the seem to work decentely

[Grey Mage]

So.... whatcha fielding?

[postal105]

i am taking 2 units of gray hunters with 5 men both with wolf standards 1 with a power weapon the other 5 man squad has the melta gun and 2 razor backs with heavy bolters a wolf priest along with wolf scouts with 2 plas pistols and a melta gun

[DV8]

It might come up... Wraithlords are only 3 wounds and a 3+ save, so you could see a couple of those. It makes me a little embarassed to say this, but 3 of them with very basic weapons, a farseer, and 2 troops is doable in 500pts. Though two Fire prisms is probly worse.

 

A Farseer is next to useless, since he can't cast any of his Psychic powers. A Warlock with Spiritseer (is that even still available?) is probably a better investment (points wise).

 

And I don't even know how I missed that...oh Wraithlords...is there anything you can't do? *facepalm*

 

 

DV8