HH alternate conclusion idea

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

As i start off i just want to repeat that this is just an idea i had that i think is kind of interesting. I have no intention of trying to make armies for this story.

 

We all know how the Horus Heresy ended. The Emperor killed Horus, The Emperor was critically wounded and permanently placed within the golden throne to preserve his life. The traitor legions retreated into the Eye of Terror and the Imperium fought on for the next 10,000 years.

 

Well my idea is what if The Emperor hadent killed Horus and the forces of chaos were victorious. Following the death of The Emperor, what remained of the loyal legions fled Terra (or there respective battle feilds). Humanity is inslaved to the Dark Gods and the galaxy is wrought with anarchy. The traitor legions eventually turned against eachother fighting for power within the new order while Horus sits upon the throne of Terra. The once proud loyalist legions are reduced to shadows of there former glories, always hunted they are forced to fight in a state of constant rebelion using lesser equiptment and with fewer numbers.

 

i like to think of what the loyal legions would be like under this scenario. i think of there armour being damaged, dirty and worn because they dont have the resourses to repair it. I wonder if they will stay united as legions or split up into smaller groups (like chapters) so that should there location be discovered the entire force would not be destroyed. I like the idea of the chapters not having stability. Of having to move from planet to planet to prevent themselves from being found. Of having to potentially ally themselves with xenos just to survive or with human rebels to increase there numbers. Of being the last defenders of humanity and being completly outnumbered but still fighting on in the name of the Imperium.

 

i think this could make some interesting stories or models if anyone was interested enough.

[manofmanynames]

Sound like a cool idea. I wonder how long the loyalist could last. With very little weapons, no safe place to hid, and no way of getting new marines. But the chaos marines fighting each other would make it easier, the loyalist could just lay low for a while until the chaos marines kill each other, then pop out and kill the winners while they are wounded from the fight. Could make some good stories.

[MCCCXXXVII]

Sounds interesting. In Legion, The Cabal mentioned something about what would happen if Horus won. They said something about him eventually hating humanity and trying to wipe out the entire race if I can recall correctly.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Well i think that the loyalist legions would take replacment parts and ammo and weapons from the chaos forces or better yet by attacking the chaos held forge worlds. Maybe incite a population rebelion here and there. Also as far as recuitment goes i think they would still draw recruits just not the amount that the chapters currently draw, i also wonder how the situation would affect the chapter tactics. I mean would the Salamanders be the best armed, would the Ultramarines have the largest forces or would the chapters have more interaction with eachother in order to survive. Also there would still be the threats of the various xenos species existing in the galaxy.

[chriscrowing]

Be warned - LEGION spoiler.

 

In Legion, the Cabal's Acuity shows that if Horus won, then humanity would gutter like a sudden, but brief flame - war would engulf the human portion of the galaxy, and then we would extinctify ourselves, leaving the galaxy free for the Eldar and other Chaos-savvy xenos to repopulate.

 

I don't agree with that though.

 

@ Jarl. I love the idea of the Heresy ending a little more negatively - although of course the slow stagnation whcih is caused by the Emperor's near death is probably the worst possible case, especially if you agree with the Acuity - but I don't think things would be an immediate loss.

 

1. Horus has defeated the Emperor, BUT the fresh legions of the Space Wolves and Ultramarines are translating in-system, there are still significant numbers of Blood Angels, Imperial Fists and White Scars on Terra and the whole lot are gonna be PISSED.

 

Add to that, the fact that The Raven Guard, Iron Hands and Salamanders have not been totally decimated, and the Dark Angels are still out there.

 

So - Horus has NOT won the Imperial Palace and secured Terra, his forces have suffered terrible losses. His situation must have been desperate in order to drop the void shields around the Vengeful Spirit and incite the duel with the Emperor.

 

From a purely military point of view, his position is NOT great.

 

2. The Warp Gate. Of course, with Magnus out of the picture, and the Emperor dead, Malcador is left in the golden throne, and let's be honest, he's not gonna last long. This can go two ways, depending if you believe in the Star Child idea or not. (Where the hell did that idea come from in the first place anyway?)

 

i- Malcador gives in, the compromised webway gate below the Palace breaches and Terra is engulfed by the pure stuff of the warp, daemons walk the surface and Terra becomes a new, smaller Eye of Terror. I think Horus would move in at this point while the Loyalists fall back to lick their wounds.

 

ii- The Emperor's spirit is released into the warp. By this stage the Lectitio Divinatus had done enough that he is elevated to GOD status rather than warp echo food for the void predators, the new born Star Child calms the warp around Terra, but scatters the Traitor fleet, and calms the webway, seals the portal on Terra etc.

Horus withdraws, the Loyalists regroup on Terra to lick their wounds.

 

3. Even if Horus killed the Emperor, he hasn't won the whole Imperium. The Ultramarines numbered something like 1 in 3 Astartes at the end of the Crusade, were untouched by the Heresy and had conquered the entire Eastern Fringe on their own, earning a reputation for forging compliant, self reliant systems all of whom levied troops to the Ultramarines. Indeed, their own small empire of Ultramar would likely be a bastion of resistance against the traitor forces.

 

Add the remnants of the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, White Scars, Dark Angels, Salamanders, Iron hands and Raven Guard to the massive Ultramarines legion, and it's likely that the loyalist forces would actually have a numerical superiority.

 

Given that the Loyalists could draw on the Ultramarines good management and concurrent support base, while the Traitors hadn't exactly done any sensible long-term planning, actually massacring some of their home world populations and not exactly gaining any new allies, apart from the (significant) Dark Mechanicum, the tactical balance is very much in the Loyalist's favour. That's without even counting the dubious loyalty of the Alpha Legion.

 

A good parralel would be the situation after the first few years of the American Civil war, where the south had won all the battles but didn't have the resources to finish the Union, who then brought their manpower and infrastructure advantage to bear...

 

4. There has been a great deal of supposition that Horus 'lets' the Emperor win in the end, realising how far he had fallen. What if that realisation came AFTER killing his Dad, rather than moments before the coup de grace? He can't exactly recant, and it's not as if anyone in the loyalist camp would be particualrly forgiving.

 

The Ruinous Powers arn't known for tolerating backsliders and many of the Warmaster's erstwhile followers are definately too far gone, or too enthusiastic in their acceptance of the Ruinous Powers to change their ways. can you imagine Abaddon, let alone Lorgar or Mortarion being that understanding of their leaders suden contrition?

 

5. The Chaos powers never get along for long. Khorne hates Tzeentch, Nurgle hates Slaanesh etc. They simply can't function as a cohesive military unit for long...

 

Anyways, that's PLENTY to be going along with...

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Well these are just some of th many ideas to mull around in the topic

[Corsair]

Horus winning would/could/should end one of three ways in my opinion:

 

Killing daddy makes Horus absorb that power, immediately ascending him past daemonhood and into the Chaos Pantheon; initially he would maintain a presence on Terra as the daemonworld seat of his power, but like the other Gods eventually moves more into the abstract.

 

After their initial dominance with a new God at their head, the Sons of Horus would be left leaderless and would be torn to pieces by the traitor legions and remaining loyalists, fracturing into warbands while Horus sits in the Warp maintaining his role as Dark God of Over-reaction and Daddy Issues.

 

In this situation, humanity is in a fairly bad way, but survives.

 

OR

 

Horus slays daddy, the Chaos Gods enjoy it a great deal, and Horus maintains his position as mortal

champion of the Gods, taking the throne of his new Imperium.

 

Before the seat is even warm, the various traitor Primarchs all make their own moves to assume power (

based off Soul Hunter, it seems Curze was planning this, plus there's every chance a full strength Alpha Legion would have dropped straight on the palace

), and odds are that enough of them taking shots at Horus would lead to his downfall - depending on who won, this would determine just how bad it was for the people of the Imperium.

 

Regardless, the traitor legions would fracture, as every dead primarch and the complete removal of alliances would severely weaken Horus'/his replacement's stranglehold; into this power struggle would come the inevitable loyalist counterattack, which could actually turn out better for the Imperium longterm if the living loyal Primarchs outnumber their trecherous bretheren.

 

OR

 

Horus slaps down the Big E and says 'noooo daddy, what have I done?' and uses his Chaos-given powers to blow ten shades of crap out of Terra and all of his forces fighting there - and no,

I don't see the Gods letting him use their powers to wipe out their main food source, that would just be stupid, regardless of what the Cabal thinks

. What survivors there are flee, and the Loyalist forces move in and isolate Terra from the Imperium, as it is now a Daemonworld; Ultramar becomes the new seat of Imperial power, and Big Blue's codex eventually expands to instruct the reader in what type of underwear they are allowed to wear on a Tuesday.

[Liquid_awesomes]

and Big Blue's codex eventually expands to instruct the reader in what type of underwear they are allowed to wear on a Tuesday.

 

That would be some awesome underware

[Jamafore]

From a purely tactical standpoint, ignoring the whole warp argument as there are too many variables, even if Horus had killed the Emperor, the traitor legions would be screwed.

 

With the exception of the Night Lords and maybe the Alpha Legion,I think all of Chaos is at Terra. However while they have had a major victory by killing the Big E, everyone there has been fighting for a long while. Breaking the fortress and all that. There has had to be attrition, so both sides are probably on their last legs.

 

Then we have the Space Wolves and, more importantly, the Ultramarines coming in system with hours. They were the most numerous legion at this time. Even if we leave open the possability of casualties from fighting the Word Bearers they probably still outnumber any one legion there. Also both legions are relatively fresh and ready to fight. If Chaos had a week, or better yet, a month without anyone shooting at them, allowing them to rest, they might be in a better position. But what's left of the loyalists would not give them that time, obviously.

 

That is not to say that parading the fact that they had, if fact, killed the Big E would not have done some damage. Morale among the defenders would take a nosedive, while the same among the attackers would skyrocket. Would that be enough to change the outcome? Probably not. Or it could just piss everyone off to the point that now they have to deal with throughly enraged Space Marines. Which never is a good thing.

 

If the loyalists did have to retreat, the best place for them to go would be Ultramar. As far as tactics go, most of them would have to seriously rethink their MOs. Of the said loyalists, only the Raven Guard have extensive knowledge of that sort of combat. Everyone else fight in a more "honorable" style that does not lend itself well to a rebelistic situation.

 

Sorry for the long post. I tried to cut down on the wall of text.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Im not saying that ALL of the legions would fight with gurella (dont think i spelled that right) tactics. But they would have to try and stay below the radar. Ive recently gotten some insperation from the Dornian Heresy and so i plan on writing up a few stories.

[Jamafore]

Im not saying that ALL of the legions would fight with gurella (dont think i spelled that right) tactics. But they would have to try and stay below the radar. Ive recently gotten some insperation from the Dornian Heresy and so i plan on writing up a few stories.

 

 

 

They would have to. A straight up fight would present too much chance of having them wiped out.

 

With their cicumstances, the best option would be guerrilla warfare as thier recruitment would be a serious concern.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I respectfully disagree that they would HAVE to. If that were the case then all of the legions who were dvistated following the horus heresy would have adopted those tactics. They can still fight as their combat doctrine dictates but they would have to improvise here and there. Keep in mind these arent little chapters they are still (for the most part) legions. And while the chaos legions in my idea are more numerous they are more prone to in fighting and breaking into smaller factions due to the nature of chaos.

[Badaboom]

Remember the extreme reaction that the BA had after Sanguinius death, simply ripping off the assaulting Chaos forces; imagine what would happen after the Emperor´s death, with perhaps ALL Astartes in the Palace going wild. Wow, I´d like to see that!

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Imperial bloodbath ;)