Allies

[Imperial Patriot]

Hi everyone,

 

Do you guys ally in Daemon Hunters or Witch Hunters? I'm confused by the part in the Daemon Hunters codex where it states "Neither inducted Imperial Guard nor allied Space Marines may be included in such a contingent" (pg 21, Dameon Hunters Codex, grey inset). Above I see that GK cannot include marines, what does that mean? I find it just a confusing section that was poorly worded. What can I and can't I do? Can I bring along PAGK in a list if I want? Could they count as troops? (The requirements part is clear though)

 

As for bringing in an assassin, how do you guys swing it? I'm thinking bringing the required inquistor means another HQ for quite a bit or an elite to just bring another elite and that creates all sorts of problems for the FOC.

 

I read on BoLS about using a vindi in conjunction with that SW guy with the heart thing or a vindi in conjunction with Telion really ensures destroying Pfists and exarchs. Any other tips on bring allies in and how to create synergy?

[Hellios]

Ok if you are playing a space marine army and using allies what the rules say is...

 

You can not use Daemon hunter allies that have been inducted from another codex (AKA space marines or Imperial guard) however you can use models from the DH codex such as grey knights and Inquisitors and assassins.

 

If you play a DH army with Grey knights you cannot use space marine allies but you can use grey knight allies for a space marine army :) hope this clears it up for you.

 

Also for take your normal FOC and from your main codex (space marines for example) you must meet basic requirements aka 1 HQ and 2 troops.

 

Then further foc slots that may use choices from the allies codex...

 

1HQ

1Elite

2Troops

1FA

 

AKA you can't take an Inq and an assassin as allies as that would be 2 Elite slots but you could take a Inq Lord and an assassin. If you equip your Inq lord right he shouldn't be that expensive but many would say assassins are often overated and some GKT might be better or maybe non of the above <_< GKGM make good 2nd HQ's if you have the points.

[Imperial Patriot]

Thanks so much for clearing that up. So what you're saying is that as a space marine I can use their units, up to the limits allowed, but If I'm codex I can't start throwing in other Imperial army units from BA, DA, SW and the like. That makes so much sense, I guess it was a blind spot in my thinking.

 

I forgot that rule about only allowing one elite, so it has to be the Inquisitor Lord b/c the assassin takes the elite spot.

 

I'll look in the GKGM as a possible second HQ.

 

Edit: Any word on whether an allied in troops choice such as PAGK is scoring?

[Chengar Qordath]

Edit: Any word on whether an allied in troops choice such as PAGK is scoring?

It is.

[Imperial Patriot]

Why don't people use them more? They have a better bs than regular marines, can fire and move, have more attacks after accounting for weapons, and their weapon strikes at S6. Is it just the cost of them?

[Frosty the Pyro]

they have a higher WS, not BS.

 

and yeah it esentialy makes them somewhere between sternguard and vanguard.

 

as for why many folks dont use em, other than points (which isnt that bad for what they do), there is the physcial cost, reltively expensive models and the need to purchace the deamonhunter codex in addition to your own army codex.

[Gearhead]

and the need to purchace the deamonhunter codex in addition to your own army codex.

 

And seeing as to how....

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...otCatGameStyle=

 

You see a slight problem.

[Imperial Patriot]

Thanks guys for your insight. Seeing as this hobby is fairly pricey as it is I don't see a point in buying models that don't make sense to field, and the tactical squad is one of those units that seems to be a love/hate unit for a variety of reasons. As to the codex, you could always check ebay or less reputable methods.

[Brightguy]

Don't see why you'd start a Demonhunters army now. The codex has been pulled for sale because it is to be reissued soon. You can buy the models if you like, but you may be buying something useless under the new rules, not to mention the time spent painting them.

[Xeonic]

Not to mention we're(and be we I mean I) all hoping for plastic grey knights and sisters.

Making Inquisition forces mostly plastic would help a lot to make them more accessible.

A good sign perhaps is that at least for me the grey knights squad box has no add to cart button anymore. :D

 

I wouldn't purchase any inquisition forces period until the new codex comes out and we can confirm that they can or cannot(most likely) be allied anymore.

[Brother-Captain Isaac]

I've never even peeked at a Daemonhunters codex, though the units are notorously known to be irrationally expensive (points wise and cost wise) and the models range in our game store is limited to GKTs, occasionally the odd box of PAGK if you are lucky, but nobody uses them anyway...

[Xeonic]

I think PAGK are worth the points generally speaking, they have a number of nifty rules going for them, every man has a storm bolter, 2(3 on the charge) S6 WS5 attacks each(justicar gets 3 PW S6 attacks, 4 on the charge). Shrouding means people have to roll to see if they can shoot you, and on average, they'll have to be in your storm bolter range to see you. They all have the ability to counter psykers on a rolloff. They're also LD9 and fearless.

 

I put them slightly less capable at shooting then sternguard, and at the same time slightly more/less capable than vanguard in CC point for point, while being the same points cost as sternguard(25pts per model). They're also scoring.

 

10 PAGK w/justicar = 275

10 Sternguard, sergeant w/fist = 275

10 Vanguard, sergeant w/relic blade, vet w/fist = 265

 

EDIT: IMO the sternguard can easily outshoot them outside of 24", or inside of 12", but in CC there's no contest. Vanguard, in order to be as efficient in CC(WS5, S6!) have to have several melee upgrades, but would of course be no match at range.

 

EDIT2: It is worth noting however that PAGK have no anti armor upgrades and thus rely on inq. stormtrooper melta suicide death squads(70 pts for 5 men and two melta, plus a 50 pt rhino) and/or lascannons from raiders/dreads for anti armor. Every PAGK is S6 of course which helps if you can CC light armor.

[Frosty the Pyro]

I've never even peeked at a Daemonhunters codex, though the units are notorously known to be irrationally expensive (points wise and cost wise) and the models range in our game store is limited to GKTs, occasionally the odd box of PAGK if you are lucky, but nobody uses them anyway...

 

 

Deamon hunter units are not irrationaly expesnive in points (the models are hard on the wallet though), and those who complain about it are generaly foolish.

 

Deamon hunters have the folowing major problems, old style transports (so yeah transports of overcosted), lack of antitank outside of heavy slots (no melta), most of their anti-deamon rules dont work anymore (partly due to the definition of deamon in the codex, partly because of poor desighn decisions in making codex: deamons). But PAGK are solid and GKT are arguably the best terminators in the game (even considering how nice 5e strom sheilds are). And one of the land raiders has some nice upgrades for free.

 

and then you can get into the increadbly cheap inquistor+mystics combo. There are distincitve flaws in the dex (reltively slow moving, no qualtiy cheep options, sparce anti tank) though most of those can be mitigated using the allies rules.

[Xeonic]

Err, as I said in my last post.

5x Inq. Stormtroopers(basically BS4 guardsmen, 4+ sv.), 2x meltaguns in a rhino = 120pts.

Not bad for a troops slot or two to pack a little melta into a list.

 

Still, lack of antitank(specifically fast melta) is an issue in the daemonhunters codex, specifically in a pure grey knights force. Easiest way around is to just use a parent space marine codex list, and slip in some fast melta from there(land speeders or something). Grey knights terminators, as mentioned are for sure one of, if not the most potent terminator assault force available. Hopefully in the 5e dex they'll retain the ability to swap their NFW and storm bolter for a TH/SS(3++ ofc).

[Brother Dylan]

I think PAGK are worth the points generally speaking, they have a number of nifty rules going for them, every man has a storm bolter, 2(3 on the charge) S6 WS5 attacks each(justicar gets 3 PW S6 attacks, 4 on the charge). Shrouding means people have to roll to see if they can shoot you, and on average, they'll have to be in your storm bolter range to see you. They all have the ability to counter psykers on a rolloff. They're also LD9 and fearless.

 

Thats not entirely correct, grey knights do not receive a charge bonus due to true grit. While they lose out on the number of attacks, they make it up with consistency. This rule only effects power armored grey knights.

[Xeonic]

Wow, I totally misrememberd that, they don't get the bonus on the charge. Probably because I don't actually play grey knights. :P

If plastic grey knights kits come out I suspect I will play them though. ;)

 

I'm curious to see how that will be handled for 5th, I'm guessing either a base attack boost, or simply adding a bolt pistol they'll never fire into their wargear options.