Haakon Ironheart Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I just finished "Soul Hunter" and I must say that it was awesome. Easily the best BL novel I read in the last 12 months or so. The author really did a great job portraying the Night Lords as they continue their long war against the Imperium but surprisingly enough the spirit of the Legion and its traditions remain as strong as a rock at least for some of the marines. It is the first novel we see chaos marines react as marines and not like possesed madmen. Talos certainly gained a place in my marine pantheon. His discussions with Night Haunter just before the death of the primarch are exemplary and the pre-heresy parade in Nostramo incident described in the book, almost brougt tears into my eyes. Actually I dont want to spoil the book for you by sharing more details but go and get the book. If you are a pre-heresy fan, "Soul Hunter" is a treat for you even if it is set in 40k.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I agree, the parade was just one of the many great moments in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2371452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Soul Hunter was the best GW book i have read in a long time. I love how it gave us a real look into the workings of chaos marines. I am going to force the Chaos players of my local store to read it or will refuse playing them till they do WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2371468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I wouldn't say it's the first time we've seen Chaos Marines act like marines. They were no more stable than say Honsou or Forrix. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2371486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haakon Ironheart Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 But Honsou is acting just like another normal bad guy. No loyalty to primarch, not ideals, not traditions, no comradeship. Just Bitterness, Egoism and hate. Talos and some of his comrades are even saying "thank you, brother" and "I apologize, brother"... How cool is this for a Chaos Marine...To be precise for a marine who neither follows the Emperor or the ruinus powers... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2371571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Yeah but they treat him like crap so why wouldn't he feel bitter towards them? He sought approval from the Warsmith and Forrix despite how they treated him. As for no loyalty to their Primarch, why should they? He became a Daemon Primarch and buggered off. Curze was with them at the end and cared for them as much he could care for a bunch of criminals. Traditions, I don't know if the Iron Warriors had any but that doesn't mean they weren't following them. Just because and author doesn't write it in, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. He made no mention of Honsou cleaning his weapon but I'm sure he did it. ADB goes into these details though, which is cool. The differences between the novels as well is that SoI shows the heads of three companies where as Soul Hunter is about one squad. They still argue with the head of the ship and he argues with the captains of other NL ships. Had there been any talk between Honsou and the men of his company they probably wouldn't have been any bad feelings, well at least not on the same level as he has with Forrix and Kroeger. So it's not necessarily that all the IWs from that book were bitter and angry etc (although they are kinda renowned for being moody), it's just that the squad level bonds were never shown. This is common in most SM books I've read, particularly the HH ones, usually only showing higher ups hanging out, never squads. This is the first instance I've seen of squad level bonding for marines and it was very cool. Anyway, to the point. The term 'possessed madmen' implies gibbering psychos which doesn't really describe any of them and only Kroeger at a push. I see your point now you've elaborated it but your choice of words didn't convey what you meant, at least not how I read it anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2371604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mechanicum Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Peturabo becomes a Daemon Primarch and makes a planet in the Eye of Terror just most of the other Daemon Primarchs. His planet is an iron wasteland and the Iron Warriors do go from there to attack the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2372006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Curze was with them at the end and cared for them as much he could care for a bunch of criminals. He cared for some of them-like Talos and Malcharion. Others, he didn't give a :) about-he says (through epigrams) "Do you really think I care what happens to any of you when I die?" to Talos, also saying that he hates the Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2372109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I loved Soul Hunter, it was really good. I actually got a BA player to read it and it has completely changed his perception of chaos marines. Next I'm having him read SoI. Honsue... don't get me started. He was 'ok' in SoI, after that he did turn into the traditional bad guy... more so than Abbadon even. He is evil, vengeful, arrogant, the only way the good guys win is by exploiting his mistakes, he turns on his allies, he acts like he is the king of all after every screw up. He is like a bad guy from a kid's comic book :) . And the sad thing is that he is fighting for something he doesn't even understand. He never served the Emperor... ever, he has no reason to be bitter, he just fights because the IWs told him to. Maybe that is why the real IWs treated him the way they did, he was created with stolen geneseed to fill the ranks, he was told to hate the Imperium, but he will never understand 'why' in the way Forrix does. As for no loyalty to their Primarch, why should they? He became a Daemon Primarch and buggered off. Traditionally... the only person the IWs have loyalty to is him. IWs don't even trust each other, especially members of other legions. An IW trusts two things, his wargear... he is of course the one maintenancing it, and Perturabo because he was looking out for them when no one else was. And he didn't bugger off. He gave them what is likely the most well defended planet in the EoT, and he and the first company are on Medrengard collecting and studying various technologies. Seeing that he likely knows more about pre-hersy tech(before they started losing it all) than anyone alive that is probably a good place for him to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2372111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I loved Soul Hunter, it was really good. I actually got a BA player to read it and it has completely changed his perception of chaos marines. Next I'm having him read SoI. Honsue... don't get me started. He was 'ok' in SoI, after that he did turn into the traditional bad guy... more so than Abbadon even. He is evil, vengeful, arrogant, the only way the good guys win is by exploiting his mistakes, he turns on his allies, he acts like he is the king of all after every screw up. He is like a bad guy from a kid's comic book :) . And the sad thing is that he is fighting for something he doesn't even understand. He never served the Emperor... ever, he has no reason to be bitter, he just fights because the IWs told him to. Maybe that is why the real IWs treated him the way they did, he was created with stolen geneseed to fill the ranks, he was told to hate the Imperium, but he will never understand 'why' in the way Forrix does. Honsou bugs me as well. I know a lot of people like the book because of him but he's one of the things not to like about the book in my opinion. Besides the point which I was trying to make before I got side tracked is that they were hardly 'possessed madmen'. Curze was with them at the end and cared for them as much he could care for a bunch of criminals. He cared for some of them-like Talos and Malcharion. Others, he didn't give a ;) about-he says (through epigrams) "Do you really think I care what happens to any of you when I die?" to Talos, also saying that he hates the Legion. This is what I tried to summarise with the whole 'as far as you can care for a bunch of criminals' bit. I know he didn't like all of them. You don't blow up your homeworld because of the scum coming from there if you don't at least dislike some of them. Again, the point was that the others were not possessed madmen, but seen as the guy is from Greece and English most likely isn't his first language it's understandable there was a bit of a misunderstanding, which has been cleared up now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2372150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAtrox Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I loved Soul Hunter, it was really good. I actually got a BA player to read it and it has completely changed his perception of chaos marines. Next I'm having him read SoI. Yup. I usually stick with Imperial fluff for two reasons - it's much more common and a vast majority of other books end up depicting the Xenos/Chaos/Traitors/etc. as very one-dimensional characters. But Soul Hunter fixed that for me. Don't mistake me, I still hate Chaos with a passion (it's my job). But after nine years of being into 40K I finally get them. Existence as a Traitor is pretty miserable. Undermanned and an under-equipped at all times - it's a fight that they're losing. It'd be sad if they hadn't betrayed everything that they were supposed to represent. The characters in Soul Hunter are much more complex and interesting as individuals. They don't feel like stock villains pulled out of a cheap Hollywood film or shovelware video game - which happens a lot with Chaos/Renegades. On that note, I'm really glad that being a traitor doesn't necessarily make you a worshiper of Chaos. It's another device to break out of ye olde "BLARG BLARG CHAOS BLARG" trope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2372598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haakon Ironheart Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 I am so glad that GW is willing to increase the amount of shades of grey in the eternal discussion about good and evil, loyal and traitor... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2372935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurgling6688 Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 Remember though, Soul Hunter only shows the conditions of the Night Lords, a legion that has no primarch and does not worship the chaos gods so does not receive the favor a lot of the time. Not all of the legions are like that, in the book they even show the Black Legion which has a huge fleet, numberless slaves and all the resources they need. I imagine a lot of the legions are more like that, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Death Guard (since they probably have a very low casualty rate). Alpha Legion are probably just like the Night Lords condition wise, World Eaters are probably even worse off, but they don't care, they're all crazy. Emperor's Children are described as being broken, though i would imagine they would have a lot of slaves. Thousand Sons, well there's only about 1,000 of them, but again, probably a very low casualty rate. As for Honsou, he was great in Storm of Iron cause he was the underdog. Since then McNeil has made him into such a flat character. I hated him in dead sky black sun, and i just finished reading the Iron Warrior novella that they put out, he might as well lace his fingers together, cackle evilly and talk about how hes going to foil Ventris. I feel like it has become He-man and he is Skeletor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2375220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 That's a great analogy Nurgling6688 :D Bear in mind in the novel the Night Lords were understrengthy as their Captain was possessed and didn't really care what happened to his legion-brothers anymore. The other group of Night Lords seems much better organised - they have a battle barge and at least a company plus worth of marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2377477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 I imagine that the availability of equipment is based on a few things. A larger force will be able to take on larger enemy fortifications/ships to take better equipment... or even ships. Armies with demon worlds instead of being strictly fleet based will be able to build forges to at least build ammo. Having an alliance with dark mechanicus groups would give access to even better things like power armor. Having either a friendship with Bile or a way to make new marines(DSBS) gives access to new marines. So small NL formations are probably among the worst equipped. Too small to take it, to disorganized to make more. The AL probably have ways of stealing or bribing for the equipment they need... but they will still be less outfitted than the IWs or BL. I think equipment per marine the IWs would be the best off. Medrengard is a giant fortress forge world. Its probably churning out ammo, bolter parts, and replacement pieces of PA around the clock. The legion obviously has close ties to the dark mechanicus as well. I imagine BL would have the best 'available equipment'(not that every marine is getting it), and the most ships. The WBs are pretty organised still, so I imagine they have a forge or two supplying them. The rest are probably pretty badly off. Not all as bad as Talos, but not exactly great either IMO. New warbands are probably based off what their original chapter had lying around, and what they have been able to steal. I doubt a warband is going to have its own forge worlds in the eye. And this actually brings me to part of the reason I believe the legions are still somewhat more organised than the most recent codex would suggest. Lets say I'm an IW Warsmith. I might not get along with other Warsmiths, but I still respect Perturabo. I might 'want' to say, "screw you guys, I'm going home," but I need to keep some sort of relationship with the legion because having that relationship means I can have a base on the Legion's demonworld, and I have access to forges. I imagine they don't hand out new equipment like they are free, you probably have to trade slaves, raw materials, and rare equipment but that is better than trying to get by without. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2377800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 I imagine BL would have the best 'available equipment'(not that every marine is getting it), and the most ships. The WBs are pretty organised still, so I imagine they have a forge or two supplying them. The word bearers have their own daemon forge planet, Ghalmek in the maelstrom. The Iron warriors own planet will have a huge amount of forges and they have ties with the Dark Mechanicum. Same goes for the Black legion, as a sign of their blessing of Abaddon the chaos gods will have provided them with a forge world and the means to make everything.. (they designed the the Defilers after all) I think there are Night lords warbands who are better off because they are aligned more with the chaos gods (Periclitor or what's his name, and Krieg Acerbus for example) All small chaos warbands will be lesser equipped then the larger ones, kinda logic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2377855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arisen Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 I just started reading it yesterday. I really enjoyed ADB's other books; after thousand sons to round off reading all HH books in succesion, I read cadian blood, loved his style (I especially loved the zombie-mowing chimera moment - "it was a purr" :D ), and so read Helsreach, and thought it was awesome from start to finish. He's fast becoming one of my favourite authors, even after reading only 2 of his books. I've only read the prologue and the first chapter of soul hunter, but the mood's been set for another great novel, and if the comments here are anything to go by, it's probably the best BL book so far this year. On another note, ADB signed my copy of soul hunter, and "killed my O", so now I've got a copy of sul hunter. Coincidentally, sul in Dutch means nerd, so I've actually got a book named "nerd hunter" :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/199086-soul-hunter/#findComment-2380093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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