Fast melta, best way to include in a list?

[Xeonic]

So I find myself at a juncture so to speak, I always include some melta in a list, however I have no fast melta options at all, a fact which is very well felt when I run acrost a list with 2-3 raiders(note that I always bring plenty of counters to lighter armor). With my typical melta counters(MM dreads, meltatacs and the odd combi melta), I find myself unable to have my melta always where I want it when I want it. Thus I've come acrost the idea that I should finally give in and add some fast melta into my list(I'm a little thick at times :lol: ), and stop wasting all those tactical bolters shooting at raiders. Note that my main criteria is that all choices will be around or below $100 USD, which is my budget for fun stuff at the moment.

 

I have three ideas, and would ask the pros and cons of each, MM speeders, MM attack bikes, and LSS meltabomb.

 

The MM speeders are pretty typical. I'd be purchasing 3 speeders, and most likely be deploying them with HBs(though they'll be magnetized in any case), so they don't have to be within bolter threat range to help deal with infantry, and MMs, so they could run up and pop a raider. I'd be purchasing 3, and they'd of course be taking up 210 pts in a given list. I'd considered also typhoons with MM, which 3 of would run at a cool 300 pts, but I'd be more tempted to hang back the whole game and take advantage of the typhoon launcher's range rather than melting that raider or whatever. These are the most typical fast melta delivery system I've seen on the table, though usually with a heavy flamer(I dislike that I'd have to be within assault range of krak equipped troops to use it though).

 

On MM attack bikes, I'll admit I've never fielded bikers before. This is the cheapest option, points to meltas, and I'd be purchasing 4 of them in this case, and probably running them as 2x2. They look very fragile though, especially to anything S8 or higher. Bringing 4 to the table would be 200 pts. Though the points cheapest option, this is also the least versatile as it is armed with only a single TL bolter for anti infantry duties.

 

On to the most interesting and varied option, the LSS bombs. I'd be purchasing two land speeder storms and 2 squads of scouts to model to match(CC scouts with combi-melta, powerfist, most likely). This is the most points intensive option, each scout squad+LSS would cost 175, 350pts to field both squads. On the other hand it's the most chances to destroy a raider or other high value armored target, as I could move up the speeder, fire multi melta(BS3 :P ), fire the combi-melta, and assault with powerfist or meltabombs(for a fistful of points more). With this option however, I could also engage ranged specialists such as devestators, tactical marines, necron warriors or whatever, anywhere on the board and tie them up or take them out of the game.

 

So far as I see it they all have their own advantages, but perform similarly...

None of the options are slowed by difficult terrain, but the bikes have to test for dangerous terrain, they can all get a nice coversave(the bikes turbo boost 3+, the speeders 4+) for moving fast, though if the speeder moves flat out for the save immobilized=wrecked. If used as a squadron immobilized=wrecked anyways. A humble rhino would be sufficient to obscure any of the choices. All choices can move 12" and fire their multi-melta, and all choices can traverse a normal board in a turn or two. All choices are somewhat vulnerable to normal infantry shooting, and very vulnerable in assault.

 

I'll admit it, as neat and awesomely cool as the LSS suicide death squads sound I'm drawn to the simplicity of the land speeders. Depending on construction I could probably magnetize the typhoon launchers and all weapons options and be able to field them to be effective in any situation, but on the other hand I could do all this with the other choices as well.

 

So help me out here, is there some aspect of one of the choices I missed?

Are land speeders more/less fragile than I think, is the hflamer truly the only effective secondary option? Would a multi-melta typhoon be totally daft?

Are attack bikes the better choice here, with their 3+ turbo-boost save and 2w and T4(5)?

LSS bombs, are they even remotely effective with BS3 and AV10 open topped? Can a single scout sergeant combi make all the difference?

Should I consider something else, drop podded MM dreads, biker squads with 2 meltaguns and attached attack bikes?

[Jackelope King]

I don't think the LSS is a valid option in an all-comers list. You're sacrificing a lot of points and two force organization chart slots to pull it off, and you're basically throwing it away after a single use. It's an easy target for your opponent to pop on turn 1, and will die horribly even if they succeed on their mission.

 

There's a lot of valid debate on attack bikes vs. landspeeders. An armor value of 10 is roughly equivalent to a T6 with a 3+ save, so with two wounds the Attack Bike is actually relatively comparable in terms of durability. Attack bikes might actually have an edge when you consider that they can come in squads that aren't hampered by the squadron rules the same way that Landspeeders are, but I wouldn't consider this a serious advantage worth truly planning around. Where the Landspeeder gets a MAJOR edge is maneuverability. Yeah, bikes are scary-fast, but Landspeeders are even faster, because they ignore terrain between points A and B. I personally prefer speeders just a little bit, entirely because they can get to places that terrain would hobble my bikes reaching.

 

As for how to equip speeders... they're fast enough to deliver point-blank flamer-y death. I don't see the point in sticking with a heavy bolter on a melta-delivery unit, and I don't feel like Typhoon launchers are a good pairing on a melta-toting anti-vehicle unit. I've recently become a big fan of the Typhoon with a Heavy Bolter to add a little exra Dakka to my lists (I'll soon be running 3 of those alongside 3 Dakka Preds and 3 Rifleman Dreads), and they still serve to open up light armor about on-par with my Dreads, so I'm pretty happy with them.

 

In my Biker army, I run two meltaguns and a multimelta attack bike in each of three squads, and four members of the Command Squad carry Meltaguns to boot. This is the list that gets supported by the above firebase, with 3 Preds, 3 Dreads, and (soon) 3 Typhoon Speeders. Bikers are already pretty decent at killing light infantry, so adding a little extra weight of fire that can threaten the Rhinos and Chimeras of the world is really nice to deny the enemy the mobility I hope to capitalize on.

[Xeonic]

That biker army sounds scary. I would love to play against it with my mech. gunline(but then again, I'm crazy :D ).

 

I don't like the idea that heavy flamers are super great on AV10 shoe boxes of death, but I'll be sure to try them, I've sure had them deployed quite successfully against myself in the past :tu: . My idea was that the heavy bolters could potentially keep the speeders alive for longer, most armies will still get their armor sv. vs a heavy flamer so if the speeders could stay alive longer with HBs, they could potentially account for more dead. However, since most games are short, the more efficient auto hitting, cover clearing heavy flamer is probably the most effective anti infantry option. My problem is that I fight a lot of marine equivalent armies where the squad I torch will most likely get to return fire, and a squad rapid firing with a melta or plasma(or two!) means a dead(disabled at least) speeder.

 

The idea behind the typhoons with multi meltas was sorta a rough silly concept I had of a unit that could sit at range and pelt high S shots out on the move, or swoop in and blow stuff up, then move back out for more ranged pelting. A speeder with that loadout could potentially move 12" and fire two krak missiles or one melta shot, or 6" and fire 2 kraks and an AP1 melta shot, to be sure of popping that transport. It could also move 12", fire the S8 AP1 melta shot and two frag missiles at lighter infantry - not as effective as firing frags with a HB typhoon, but still respectable. Probably just a goofy and unworkable idea on my part though.

 

I run dakka preds and rifledreads in many of my lists, both great fire support units IMO.

 

Still kinda torn on the bikes vs speeders, but I'll probably pick up at least one speeder kit tomorrow to see how they go together, with a further two on down the line if I don't change my mind. I hadn't considered running a speeder along with a few bikes, but that also could be interesting and different, and could mess with my opponents target prioritizing. ;)

[waaanial00]

Hi there,

 

I like to have very cheap melta in small quantities and as such my only melta in my list is 2 single MM landspeeders and Machine Curse on my librarian (with some other melta here, there and everywhere on less mobile platforms). I have tried out multiple attack bike units and I just couldnt get on with them, held in combat or just boltered to death they just never survive long enough to get the job done.

 

I tend to hide my MM speeders or at the very least deploy them near (amoungst) a couple of similarly evil units or just put them next to my Tactical Rhinos. Generally they tend to get minimal fire on the first turn if they are not too exposed. They are a one shot against the toughest armour and given that they only cost 120 points I dont mind sending them on a one way mission, however it has to be said that they dont tend to get destroyed completely in every game so they cant be that bad.

 

The machine curse is in there as well becuase there is nothing more satisfying than having a single librarian hold up a Landraider in a Gandalf "you shall not pass" style moment (off to the Official Rules section for me after this to ask a burning question). Has worked out quite well for me the few times I have needed to use it.

 

The MM Typhoon is actually being banded around on places like Bell of Lost souls as a decent anti tank speeder, I am not so convinced. My Typhoons do really well cracking transports from a distance where they suffer less return fire. They do not do so well when they get up close and personal. Therefore mounting a MM on this already expensive platform is probably a waste, though it has to be said that my Heavy Bolters get fired less often that I would have thought though thats probably because I havent played a hoard army in a while.

 

The one option, loathe as I am to suggest it, that you have missed is probably the drop podded Sternguard with meltas. They have a reputation of being everywhere but I can honestly say I have never faced someone who used a squad like that. I ran plasma based in a pod for a bit but got too depressed with them dying too easily so stuffed them in a Rhino and am currently living off the profits.

 

I would suggest to go speeder, you know the reasons why and you wont be sad. I think the storm melta bomb is pretty damn good as well, but from reports it would seem that its problem is what to do when you dont have first turn.

 

Wan

[Titan87]

Well, I tend to be in the minority but I have found that Multimelta+Typhoon speeders are great. I run three singles in my army. I use the Typhoon launchers to take out transports at range. Then if there are any threats that require melta the speeders can close quick to kill them. Additionally they are only 10 points more than than the HB Typhoon which is a pretty good deal.

 

These are great mobile anti armor platforms, which can deal with any AV that will be thrown at you, and in a pinch they can still add some decent anti-infantry dakka with the 2 frag launchers and a 24" melta shot.

[gettothegone]

I truly feel that speeders are best served with Typhoons. Typhoon / Melta is an option but once you get in range, you're eating bolter fire, and I'm pretty conservative with my speeder use unless I know I have a good target.

 

Which leaves bikes.

 

Attack Bikes you get 3 multi meltas, and 3 TL'd bolters and 6 wounds for 150.

 

No you can't go up stairs, and difficult terrain is bad, but T5 and 3/3i when you're moving 18(cough24") is a nice way of shrugging off fire, instant death or not.

 

LSS does 2 things.

 

1. REALLY REALLY messes your opponent up before he can react to you.

2. Gives them 2 killpoints should they steal initiative, or bubble wrap properly.

[Jackelope King]

The reason I really don't like the notion of sticking a multi-melta on a Typhoon is that your'e denying yourself duality.

 

With a HF/MM Speeder, you can only move and fire one weapon, sure, but considering the targets you'll pick with either weapon, odds are you only need to fire one weapon on a given turn anyway. You're not losing any value. The HB/Typhoon is really similar: you can cruise and fire both the heavy bolter and frag missiles at incoming infantry, or you can cruise and just take krak missile shots at light armor. You keep the value of your HB in the first scenario and aren't missing it in the second.

 

With a MM/Typhoon, you're forcing yourself to stand still to get the most out of your antitank weapons. 2 Krak Missiles and a Multimelta will actually do a nice job putting some dents in most tanks, but you sacrifice the huge advantage the speeder has of mobility, or else you're missing out on the value of the points you spent on either the multimelta or the typhoon launchers. It just seems like a pricier way to miss out on points, or a speeder that loses out on mobility.

[JamesI]

The reason I really don't like the notion of sticking a multi-melta on a Typhoon is that your'e denying yourself duality.

 

With a HF/MM Speeder, you can only move and fire one weapon, sure, but considering the targets you'll pick with either weapon, odds are you only need to fire one weapon on a given turn anyway. You're not losing any value. The HB/Typhoon is really similar: you can cruise and fire both the heavy bolter and frag missiles at incoming infantry, or you can cruise and just take krak missile shots at light armor. You keep the value of your HB in the first scenario and aren't missing it in the second.

 

With a MM/Typhoon, you're forcing yourself to stand still to get the most out of your antitank weapons. 2 Krak Missiles and a Multimelta will actually do a nice job putting some dents in most tanks, but you sacrifice the huge advantage the speeder has of mobility, or else you're missing out on the value of the points you spent on either the multimelta or the typhoon launchers. It just seems like a pricier way to miss out on points, or a speeder that loses out on mobility.

A mm/typhoon can move 6 inches and fire both, just like a heavy bolter/typhoon can move 6 and fire krak/heavy bolter.

[greatcrusade08]

suggest to go speeder, you know the reasons why and you wont be sad. I think the storm melta bomb is pretty damn good as well, but from reports it would seem that its problem is what to do when you dont have first turn.

 

Outflank!!

 

its less effective, but with a 4+ to bring them on on turn 2 not too bad.. sometimes it helps as you often cant tell when you will need an extra tank buster.

 

Being 2 units, it means you can split fire too, i generally fire the scouts at the main target and if they hit or the vehicle hasnt moved (which means auto hit MBs) i then fire the MM at another vehicle close by

[Giga]

MM/HF speeders and MM attack bikes are the way to go. They're both great options, and actually having both in a list is a pretty good idea. Especially if you take Vulkan.

 

Other nice options are to have a dual meltagun sternguard squad. This is very neat if you're running Pedro.

 

In a list where you have bikers as troops, giving your biker squads dual meltaguns is also a great way to go around. Giving your bike captain a combimelta and having him run with a scoring biker squad with dual meltaguns means you get a unit that can pretty much guarantee a dead vehicle in a single shooting phase.

 

A multimelta on a crusader/redeemer is a really great addition, too. On godhammer it isn't needed too much, but is still nice to have.

 

 

 

Melta options I don't think are very good:

 

Tactical squads with meltaguns are just not the great thing. Tac squads are primarily infantry killers, so giving them a flamer (+ a combiflamer, if you can spare the points) is IMHO a lot better then relying on that one melta shot.

 

Command squads with meltaguns are also a subpar idea simply because, when it comes to melta-ing stuff, it's always better to just take attack bikes or mm/hf speeders instead. Command squads are much better off with flamers, plasmaguns, or kitted out for assault.

 

Meltas on dreadnoughts can be nice, but meh... It's like with the tactical squad. You're paying premium points and spending a valuable FoC slot for a single, slow-moving melta shot.