At 3000 points, what would you be sure to take?

[Barn]

SO ive been asked to play a 3k game, and i was wondering what other people think is a 'must have' at that points level?

 

I'll have some more details on what im facing in a day or 2, but for now, i'd love to hear some units people think are good for 3k battles!

[Grey Mage]

Bjeorn, a Rune Priest, and 40-50 GHs would make a good start.

 

Apoc rules or no?

[killersquid]

Are you using the Apocalypse rules? I find that in big games, it's easy for units to get stuck in the back of the lines and take no part in the battle. Make sure that you have a lot of mobility, so that nothing is left stuck in the wings. Reserves is important, and I can see bike troops and Deepstrikers a good way to add in extra mobility, so you can put extra pressure right where you need it.

 

Opponents may mech up as well, so you may want to make sure you have a lot of units and weapons to deal with enemy armour. A strong fire base would be quite important.

[LoneSniperSG]

I'd vouch for the use of two Vindicators atleast, that is if you have a bunch of other tanks you want to take.

 

If not, then don't take them.

[wolf363839]

at least 50 Grey Hunters fully equipped, much shooty, transports, Venerable Dread.

[Kenmichi]

Baneblade.

 

Actually at 3k points I'd try to max out your GH packs with Rhinos and as many upgrades as humanly possible, same for Wolf Guards if you take them. Then at that point you can spend your remaining points on "specializing" your company. Grey Hunters are your bread and butter simultaneously, they should almost always be your priority and forces should be built around them.

[Barn]

Sorry about the ultra-brief post to start, my wife needed to go out and i wanted to try and get the 'evening crowd' lol

 

Unfortunately, its not an apoc game. The guys who want to play against me, both have fairly new armies, and i guess they just want to test them out.

 

I will be playing against 1500 points of Thousand Sons, and 1500 points of Plague Marines at the same time. This makes things slightly challenging from the outset, as when charging the plague marines i'll lose charging bonus's, and the 1K sons will be shooting at me with AP3 bolters. Not to mention 1K's inv save and FNP on the PM's :/

 

The only 'advantage' i have is i can spread my force over 2 FOC's if need be.

 

I'd love to keep the suggestions coming, and ive asked both my opponents for a rough idea of what they will be bringing. The game wont be untill the end of may, so i have a few weeks to work out what to take, and the best way to use it.

[Grey Mage]

Let Plague Marines charge you... hit them with Plasma squads to mow down their expensive numbers and rapid fire with everything to see if you can stack a couple wounds on them.... and then you can counter-attack for the full charge bonus and everything.

 

For thousand sons? Yeah, you want to bring a couple of Rune Priests fighting chaos... shut down his psychic phase completely and youll take a good chunk of his antitank. Rhinos can block off your GH squads from his AP 3 fire, then get out and assault the next turn.

 

Neither army style tends to be particularly moble... bring typhoons if you have them, maybe some swiftclaw bikers or even TWC.

[Valerian]

You can take two FOC's? That's good, that means you get some additional flexibility in the valuable Elite section. I'd take advantage of that to allow you access to one or more Wolf Scout Packs (great for destroying his Armor/Support, and tying up his AP3 Bolters), Wolf Guard to lead your packs, one or more Lone Wolves (always a great investment) and maybe also Dreadnoughts/Venerable Dreadnoughts.

 

As others have stated, focus on building your core force of Grey Hunters, then get what you need to support them and allow/enable them to do their job. At this level you will have much more flexibility to take some of those more expensive special characters (Njal, Bjorn, etc.) that are harder to take in a smaller points game.

 

Have fun, and let us know how it works out.

 

Valerian

[Wispy]

At that points value, eff rhinos, everyone gets a landraider.

[LucasLAD]

Three TW Lords all three with SS and alternate the weapons with Frost Weapon/Wolf Claw/Thunderhammer. Allocate beastslayer/Warrior born/bear as you see fit. Stick them with a 15 man fen wolf unit, then proceed to eat chaos. I'd also go for the two RP idea to shut down those powers. Basically bring the armor ignoring gear to subvert the FnP on the PM and just blast the TS away in assaults.

[Ragnars Claw]

I'd be so tempted to take 30 Thunderwolves. Probably not the most optimised you could go but it would be a good laugh.

[Ullr Direfang]

8 Land Raiders!!!!!! no but i would look at maybe 3 or so.

[stinkenheim]

lol, in a 3000pt game you don't get much.

 

my average list is WL and 4 WG with thunder hammers/storm shields in a redeemer.

3x 10 GHs with TDA WG tat have Power fists

10 BC with WP and WG with hammer (not in tda)

3x swiftclaws, one attack bike, WG with wolf claw

Typhoon

Vindicator

Pred

LFs with missile launchers

RP with chooser of the slain

Ven Dread, saga of majesty and assault cannon

Dread with Lascannon

 

and thats about it. its a flexible list with a fair amount of punch but if you take more than one land raider you handicap yourself. you can easily swap out the blood claws for a grey hunter suad it would cost the same.

you certainly won't get much if you take multiple raiders and i would say that 40 troops is about the max, obviously you can split the squads down a bit to give you 3 10 man squads and 2 5 man.

one thing missing from my list are transports, thats because i play city fight, but obviously chucking on rhinos for all the units will cut down even more on the numbers you are fielding. it seems like a lot but its not much more than a standard game, you certainly shouldn't be tempted to use the multiple FOC unless you desperately need more elites as you run the risk of over spending on characters and shiny toys and leaving yourself incredibly short in terms of models and scoring units.

[Spacefrisian]

I go for a wall of Vindicators (5 or 6) and equall number of transport options filled with cc madness. (off course i also take the blind barage asset that one is gold with this list.

[Karack Blackstone]

Best question is what do you have that you can take? I myself have only enough scouts for one pack of ten, or two packs of 5, and all are CC modeled sadly.

 

Otherwise, I'd go with the recommendation of lots of Elites. That and at least two packs of Long Fangs with antitank or going heavy on HB's may prove useful. If not, then I would point out that you have the option of 12 packs of GH's. It'd be half your army, but could prove interesting.

 

If you can, playtest or post an army list in the proper section that you want to try out. See if it survives critiquing, and how well, and then work from there?

[stinkenheim]

be realistic guys, 12 10 man grey hunter squads with free flamer and melta, power weapon and wolf standard comes in at 2100 pts. thats not including transports or any WG you may want to take.

[Karack Blackstone]

Fair enough. Touch your bases. You have at least 1 slot of each FOC category to take, hopefully. Do you know them well?

 

HQ: I'd say Rune Priest, not sure what with.

 

Elite: Scouts could really harass their backfield.

 

Troop: Grey Hunters, just not that many. Simple, Pods or Rhinos, something you know, won't be forgetting stuff with, and can use well.

 

Fast Attack: Always a hard one, if you like Land Speeders, go with those. Otherwise, try Thunderwolves or Skyclaws or Swiftclaws depending on what you favor. Take a Wolf Priest if you get Skyclaws, really the only way to control them.

 

Heavy Support: Long Fangs. Lots of them. Spread weapons around if you like or group them along 3 ML/2 LC, but take some. They're there to help, and that's what they're good at.

 

HS 2: Consider Vindis and Whirlwinds if you like/have them. I'd say one of each may give you enough variety, but two Vindis may make their lives miserable.

 

If this is a fun game, stick to what is sound. Scouts, Grey Hunters, Long Fangs. If it's, "Clobberin' time" then go with what's fun and what you won't be forgetting rules and special abilities for.

[Barn]

Let Plague Marines charge you.... and then you can counter-attack for the full charge bonus and everything.

 

I dont have a chaos marine codex, but i thought blight grenades always negated charge bonus's, even from counter attack?

[Barn]

Thanks for the replies so far :)

 

I'll be sure and post a list in the right forum soon. I'll also be sure to take pic's as i try to gather everything together :P

 

As for what i do/dont have, lets just say i can do almost anything (with reasonable proxies in the case of vindi's) EXCEPT thunder wolves or fen wolves. I just dont have the funds in the next month to get an amount that i think would be needed for a solid 'hammer' unit.

 

With 6 possible elites choices, i think they are going to be the core hard decisions on what i can take. I'll go over my models this weekend, and put up what i can do for some thoughts :)

[IL Bane]

Let Plague Marines charge you.... and then you can counter-attack for the full charge bonus and everything.

 

I dont have a chaos marine codex, but i thought blight grenades always negated charge bonus's, even from counter attack?

 

Blight grenades are defensive, therefore only useful if the Plague Marines are being charged. They have offensive frag grenades on the charge, though nothing that can stop Space Wolves receiving their counter-attack.

 

Source- Play against Plague Marine army once a month with my Space Wolves.

[Barn]

Thanks for that!

 

Ok managed to have a chat with both of them on MSN and get details of what im facing:

 

Jesse says:

uh

sorc with mark of nurgle and warptime

7 pms' with 2 plasma, champ with fist, in rhino

7 pms no upgrades

6 pms with 2 melta, champ w fist in rhino

vindicator

defiler w 2 extra ccw's

Barn says:

lol your army has pms

Jesse says:

hahah

Barn says:

that 1500?

Jesse says:

uh, thats like 1100 i think

my 1500 will include like, obliterators and a dreadnaught or something

 

[ Ða?d????] says:

aiit

well... i didnt think id go this way

but it kinda just did

HQ -

Demon prince with mark of tzeentch

gives him a 4+ invunible as well as 2 psycic powers

Infintry -

3 squads of thousand sons.

two of which inclued rhinos

a predator, defiler and vindicator

as well as a chaos spawn to fill some points

[Barn]

No thoughts on the army info listed above?

 

So a little more game info. Its been decided that my opponents will have 1 objective each, and i will have 2, to be put in our deployment zones, then 3 scattered on the rest of the board. This is really just to give the game a little flavor, not intended to try and make it over competitive. To this end, im planning on running atleast 40 Grey Hunters. 5 in a Razorback with TLLC, who i will put next to an objective in a corner, and most likely run 2 squads of Long Fangs beside. Another 5 in a Razorback with TL Plas and LC, which i'll place next to my other objective, close to the center of my deployment zone. I think i'll take another 3 squads fully loaded in Rhino's.

 

I think getting into CC asap with the thousand sons is a must, to get past the ap3 bolters. No matter if im in CC or not, they will get their inv save. Pm's are going to need atleast ap3 (preferably ap1 and 2) and power weapons to negate the feel no pain.

 

Now elites. Between my Wolves and Raven Guard, i have just under 40 scout models i can use, so they are an option.

 

I have a bunch of Termies with power/chainfists and storm bolters. I was thinking maybe of drop podding 2 5 man squads up close, and using them to chew through what they can while waitingfor the GH's to catch up, thought on that?

 

I can obviously do Lone Wolves, but not sure if i should?

 

Last option really, is i have the Forge World dread that i can run as Bjorn, and have another Ven dread, so maybe those 2 followed by an Iron Priest?

[Karack Blackstone]

I would like to point out that full units of GH or 9 + WGPL are very sound. Try to take say 3 to 5 of these if you can.

 

Do you still have the option of two FOC's? If so, the Scouts should work wonders, just keep your total of 6 Elite slots in mind.

[winternight]

As people have said, lots of Grey Hunters. Vindicators might work, but they have a short range. Longs Fangs are always good. Thunderwolf Cavalry are also always good.