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Chaos: [Was] A Red Corsairs <secret> Project


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So here's my situation.....

I have friends that want me to go to a tournament badly. I don't want to let them down, however my Space Wolves aren't even NEAR completion. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on them, but they are no where near tournament ready.

I look through what I could possibly swing in that time frame.... and I end up at my old stomping grounds: Chaos. But I unofficially retired my Iron Warriors until a proper Legion Codex comes out (and it will happen.... one day) so this leaves me with Huron and the Red Corsairs. :)

This is what I have painted:

Approx: 6 Corsairs with Bolters.

Huron Blackheart himself

Approx: 8 World Eaters (including that 'newer' Khorne Lord with axe, but don't know if I'd use him?)

1/2 painted khorne Rhino

Here is a rather bad picture of Huron and the funky bunch:

gallery_2760_2335_106606.jpg

Red Corsairs and Eldar are really my only shot at making the tournament (everything MUST be painted). SO here are some things I have mulling around in my head:

- Can I make a competitive Red Corsair list (including Huron?)

- Can I make a cohesive list that actually USES Red Corsairs (not just Cult Troops)?

- Can I achieve the above, within 1500 pts with the following gear:

I have (at my disposal) the following: (not including what I just listed above)

+ 3 Obliterators (assembled)

+ 2 Rhino's (1 assembled)

+ 2 Defilers (1 assembled)

+ 20+ Chaos Marines (assembled)

+ Predator (assembled)

+ 8 More Berzkerers (assembled)

+ Daemon Prince (not assembled)

+ 3-4 Chaos bikers (half assembled)

+ Khârn (assembled)

+ 5-6 various Chaos Terminators (assembled)

+ Chaos Termie Lord (sorcerer looking dude, assembled)

That's about it. :) I don't know if 1) I could pull this off or 2) I could pull it off and not get my arse handed to me in every game.

So any advice? I don't necessarily want anyone to -make- me a list. I'm looking for input on a solid direction =using= Huron and Red Corsairs.

So far, I did have a list going that was mostly shooty, but since the new armies have come out... I doubt it would hold water. One list I had going was a Termie Lord with Lash, pulling enemies into firing lanes with the Shooty Termies, and the Defilers/Oblits, but otherwise it was a weak army.

Anyone out there have experience with Red Corsairs? Is Huron working for you? This is one of my only options for making the local tournament, so it's a long shot, but I thought if I could find any inspiration, or ideas it would be here

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I think you've got a shot. Make your Chaos Marines the objective holders (either give them numbers to survive or give them a rhino). Your berzerkers go into Rhinos, your Oblits, while "competitive,"might not fit into your lists context. The Corsairs have no real access to Oblitz, as they are in a completely different warp hole. Defilers are monsters. Sit back and fire your battle cannon or run up and pound things into the dust.

 

I kind of like the list you thought of, Lash Termi Lord (not as cheesy as Lash Prince, still there, but not quite) with the Defilers working together. What do your shooty terminators have equipped?

 

Without a Land Raider to safely transport Khârn, I wouldn't take him. Bikers would be fluffy of the Corsairs, but finishing, painting and fielding them is all gonna be a pain. Unless you give them two meltaguns and keep them at a 3 man squad, then I say leave 'em at home.

 

The thing about Huron is that he has a lot of weapons rolled into one character. A psyker, a power fist, a power weapon, a heavy flamer... It is rather over whelming. That and you have no chance of getting a second close combat weapon attack (a pity). Huron is a purely background character rather then a powerful one in the actual game.

 

Also, if you are going to a tournament, you're gonna need plenty of anti-transport. Autocannons are great for this, a squad of havocs with a good bunch of them would do you well. I'm sure you have some reaper autocannons laying around (from your Defilers or the Terminators). A bit of conversion work (cutting off the second barrel on the Termi's reaper or using the two halves of the Defiler's autocannon to make two autocannons) should work rather well.

 

Best of luck! May the Dark Gods shine upon you.

okay, I really hate to pull Huron from the list (Since he's painted and is the cornerstone for the chapter).... but I guess I could get away with just the Lash termie.

 

This leaves a lot to be desired. The termies MUST hit. Typically if you're curious, I drop the Termie lord, and lash over some large squad of some sort (nids or orks) and I put them together in a neat 'tear drop' configuration, and land one heavy, and 2 combi flamers on the squad. The rest of the termies have combi-plasma, so this 'trick' can still function against Termies, or whatever....

 

The troops as usual are a sticking point for me. I don't know if can be competitive (especially in the way I'm thinking) with the current state of the game. Armies are fast, and hit really hard. I can make nasty units, but the point costs usually make troops a pain.

 

So far I am having trouble fitting 'fun' units in. Basically so far it looks like 'Zerkers in a rhino... I don't know.... Possessed too (for fun?)???

 

On the Havoks... so expensive, but I do have a few autocannon models laying around so I could pull it off. Oblits are ready to roll though. I also have a vanilla pred with hvy bolter sponsons... those are dirt cheap.

 

Still thinking this over. Like I said, if I'm going to give this a serious shot, I only have these guys or Eldar to chose from (I just sold my IG). So it's decision time. :devil:

This leaves a lot to be desired. The termies MUST hit. Typically if you're curious, I drop the Termie lord, and lash over some large squad of some sort (nids or orks) and I put them together in a neat 'tear drop' configuration, and land one heavy, and 2 combi flamers on the squad. The rest of the termies have combi-plasma, so this 'trick' can still function against Termies, or whatever....

and what do you do if you play against a non meq list , a mecha or LR rush ?

I think you can easily make a tough list.

 

Huron + Berzekers + Rhino

2x 10 CSMs, 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist + Rhino

2x Obliterators

2x Defilers

Either the Daemon Prince or a squad of Terminators deepstriking in as support

 

That is pretty much the foundation for most Chaos lists anyway. All you're really doing is taking Huron instead of a DP and not going with 4-6 Obliterators. Make it agressive with your Rhinos moving forward supported by the Defilers and Oblits. Depending on your opponent, you could hold your Defilers back and use them as artillery but most of the time I think they are more useful in an aggressive fashion.

 

I'm torn about whether the DP or Terminators would be better. DP will suck up incoming firepower better but Terminators give you something to count those shooting units hiding at the back of the table.

This leaves a lot to be desired. The termies MUST hit. Typically if you're curious, I drop the Termie lord, and lash over some large squad of some sort (nids or orks) and I put them together in a neat 'tear drop' configuration, and land one heavy, and 2 combi flamers on the squad. The rest of the termies have combi-plasma, so this 'trick' can still function against Termies, or whatever....

and what do you do if you play against a non meq list , a mecha or LR rush ?

 

Well.... a non meq list wasn't really an issue. The triple flamer trick really did nicely sometimes. But it was not 100%. As far as mechanised... it didn't do much for that. In fact, the fix would be melta's but really hardcore mechanised I don't find I can do much about anyway.

 

 

Here's a nasty proposition, use the Huron model, but have him count-as Khârn?

 

Honestly, as effective as that would be, I'd feel too dirty doing it. Just being honest. I can see the advantage of trading Huron for Khârn but it just feels wrong to do so in a Corsair list. lol

 

 

I think you can easily make a tough list.

 

Huron + Berzekers + Rhino

2x 10 CSMs, 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist + Rhino

2x Obliterators

2x Defilers

Either the Daemon Prince or a squad of Terminators deepstriking in as support

 

That is pretty much the foundation for most Chaos lists anyway. All you're really doing is taking Huron instead of a DP and not going with 4-6 Obliterators. Make it agressive with your Rhinos moving forward supported by the Defilers and Oblits. Depending on your opponent, you could hold your Defilers back and use them as artillery but most of the time I think they are more useful in an aggressive fashion.

 

I'm torn about whether the DP or Terminators would be better. DP will suck up incoming firepower better but Terminators give you something to count those shooting units hiding at the back of the table.

 

That doesn't sound so bad on paper. No icons, not much for cult troops (besides a few 'zerkers) so it would be fairly 'Red Corsair-ish' I suppose. I figured out a list with this in mind and came up with 4 termies with 3 melta's and a fist for a tank element..... I don't know it could work......

I see no reason you couldn't include some Icons if you wanted to. It might give you a chance to have a little fun, take Icon of Slaanesh on your Terminators for I5 PW attacks for example.

 

When in doubt, IoCG is a safe bet for the CSMs.

 

With the Terminators, try hard to fit in a Heavy Flamer. Its such a good buy for 5 points.

Fifteen marines on the dreadnought's chest--

 

...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of blood!

War and the powers had done for the rest--

...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of Blood!"

 

 

And that I why I don't like the Space Pirates! ;)

 

My advice is to check out some of the online army lists, such as the ones we have on the Army List Reviews forum

Hmm Its disapointing to see that Huron is not a popular SC since his mini is pure bad assery and makes me want to play RC's But yeah should keep my mine on my FT's.

 

The model is fine IMO, except for the beggers hand.

Yeah I am thinking about picking it up BUT I would be changing his powerfist hand by rotating it 180* so the fingers are at the top that is when I decide what to turn my old Marines into Im still between Huron and making them space Pirates or Pedro and Sternguard spam and make it a tourny list.

I have no issue with Huron as a model. After painting him, I gained a whole new level of respect for the somewhat hidden details on his armour (exposed cabling, etc.)

I do think his actual rules have him a bit sub-par as far as special characters go. I still think Khârn is a machine though... which leads me to.....

I have only so many months to make this work. I know the approximate Red Corsair list I would go with. However, I did an inventory last night of my "World Eaters" stuff, including Forgeworld termie/infantry bitz. It was quite a bit of stuff!!!

I don't have to win the tournament I guess. I am used to placing very high though, but I will take 'have fun' as my motto on this one since it's mostly friends that are pushing me to go to this one.

That being said, my choice is World Eaters based on Khârn, a Khorne Lord (w/Blood feeder.. he's painted):

med_gallery_2760_2335_17648.jpg

And so are about 10 of these guys:

gallery_2760_2335_24916.jpg

But, Huron is done too, and the Berzerkers could go in his list. Decisions... decisions!

Add to that I could roll with my rather tired looking Iron Warriors, or a fairly complete Alaitoc army, and I don't know what to do... but I do think the World Eaters could give the Blood Angels a run (call me crazy, I really do)a Bloodfeeder (that doesn't backfire) and Khârn can get rid of a lot of 'feel no pain' dudes.

I think for background purposes though I have wanted to do Huron as a tournament army ever since I read Graham McNeil's short story in Heroes of the Space Marines (I think it was) where Honsou meets Huron for the first time... and you get the feeling this is a charismatic overlord with immense power.

To be honest I dont' think I've ever, ever, ever, seen a Red Corsairs, painted tournament army. The problem is I think I'd get wiped out a lot... maybe I'm wrong?

As you can see I am still really undecided, but I appreciate all the feedback.... I really do. Thanks for that. Maybe this weekend I'll have some pics for you guys... of something? lol

For now I am going to playtest a list tonight against some buddies.... either World Eaters, or I'm leaning towards Huron's Funky Bunch.

To be honest I dont' think I've ever, ever, ever, seen a Red Corsairs, painted tournament army. The problem is I think I'd get wiped out a lot... maybe I'm wrong?

 

I think you're wrong. For the most part, all a Red Corsairs army is is a Chaos Undivided army without a Daemon Prince. Sure they are good but one unit does not an army make.

 

And with Red Corsairs, you might have more flexibility with including cult units like your Berzerkers. Just like any Chaos army, make it about the troops supported by some good heavies and maybe a sprinking of elites.

I'm buckling....

 

I am thinking of digging deep, and going waaay back to Iron Warriors. I was so disappointed in the latest iteration of them I gave them up within months after the current codex was released. Maybe enough time has passed?

 

A non-DP list seems really difficult to me. Huron himself may not -make- a list, but that many points at 1500 may -break- a list.

 

Here's what I'm going to do.... I'm going to make two lists, one based on the Red Corsair discussions we're having, and one based on Iron Warriors. I guess I can't post them here, so I'll hot link to the chaos armylist forum.

 

Please see the 2 Chaos lists in the running here: LISTS

Okay, first things first.

 

I made a third list for Black Legion. It is one of the three lists I made in preparing (potentially for a tournament).

 

Now I went ahead and tried the Black Legion list. Before the game I didn't have any feedback on the list yet, and just went with what was there based on prior opinion on my Iron Warriors and Red Corsairs.

 

So if you've just joined the topic... Start here:

 

- I am still narrowing down a potential army/list for a tournament.

- The lists (in the lists section) are here: Red Corsairs vs. Iron Warriors vs. Black Legion

 

- I had my first test game this weekend versus a potentially nasty Nid list. For those who don't want to sift through the lists, basically here's what I brought:

 

Black Legion:

Daemon Prince w/Warp Time and Wings

 

2 squads of 8 Zerkers in Rhino's

1 squad of Plague Mari

nes in Rhino

 

4 x Terminators 3 Combi-melta's 1 Hvy Flamer

 

2 x 2 Oblits

1 Defiler

 

Batrep #1 Versus Tyranids:

 

I'll try to run through this as briefly as possible while keeping it accurate and moderately entertaining. ;)

The Tyranid list had some of the new nasty units. Now for the sake of argument, I will clarify by saying around these parts, we are playing the Doom of Malatai as follows:

 

- He can't effect units in vehicles.

 

So my opponent's list went something like this:

A cheaper HQ. Efficient and effective, I can't remember what it was called, but it was like.... an 'uber warrior'. Not over the top, but good.

3 squads of Gaunts with elbow testicles (poison)

2 squads of warriors

1 squad of Genestealers

1 Drop pod w/2 Zoanthropes

1 Drop pod w/Doom o' Malatai

2 x Mawloc's (ouch)

2 x shooty type dudes with 2 shot missile launcher thingys

 

I think that's it. So for the game we decided to play something out of the main rulebook as we're both trying to come to grasps with these armies for a tournament and some of the battlebook scenarios are just plain silly.... so we wanted a fairly 'neutral' measuring stick for our game.

 

We ended up with the Kill Point Scenario with Spearhead deployment rules.

 

The Game:

 

Set up and Turn 1:

The table had 3 large Imperial Ruins, and some debris for a 4+ cover scattered across the table. The Buildings were set up in a diagnal line going through the center of the table from lower left (west) to upper right (east). The Debris while small, was significant made up of building parts, and the odd cache of weapons or what not.

 

I won the roll for first turn, and elected to give my opponent first turn.

 

He deployed the majority of his army (in his quarter), holding back his drop pod units, Stealers, and Mawloc's. I only deployed my Defiler....with its back to the edge of the table, I knew this would be a juicy target for the Zoanthropes so I wanted to tempt him to scatter off the table, or too far away.

 

The opening turn was fairly uneventful. He advanced everything from his quarter towards the center table Ruins. That's fine... clump up, we'll see how many cover saves he can make. :o

 

In my turn, my only move was to shoot the battle cannon, it deviates slightly taking out about 4-5 gaunts which actually weren't in cover.

 

Turn 2-3:

The favour of Chaos is indeed fickle, but it went my way on this turn. Everything that could have went poorly for my opponent did. He rolled in every single unit that he DIDN'T want (2 Mawlocs, Doom) and missed the one he wanted (Genestealers). The Zoanthropes DID come in, which I think he wanted. They came down on a bullseye that put the Zoanthropes in striking distance of the Defiler!

 

The Defiler took a pen 5 and blew up in a rather unceremonious whimper.

 

The Doom came down and had no target. It crawled out of its drop pod and this is interesting because we couldn't decide on line of sight. Since the Nid's possess no known model for Drop pods, we couldn't figure out if doors blew open, or it fell out of a 'sphincter' type orifice or what? We decided it would get cover, but could be seen.... on a 4+.

 

On My turn, the Termies came down, as did my Rhino's. They advanced, and boltered up some Gaunts.... but stayed in the vehicles. The Termies scattered within 2 inches of the darn Doom! He got to use his leech essence... but I passed on 3 D6... whew. That could have been a nasty backfire on that deviation if things went wrong. I couldn't take any chances letting the doom grow in power/wounds, so I let all three Combi melta's fly. Now this is the part I cringe. I am known for missing horrendously with these guys like you wouldn't believe... and I did roll 2 ones, BUT one melta hit, and wounded, reducing the Doom to a puddle of pudding.

 

Turn 3-4:

 

The Mawloc's come in. My opponent tells me they are 'nothing in close combat'. I did remind him they make really good 'tarpits' for other units, but he played it down... never the less I wanted to see what these guys were made of.... Both Mawlocs came in, and came out on my Berzerker Rhinos.... but only stunned one.

 

I took some minor shooting from other units, and his Genestealers came on but he rolled and they would be forced to enter on his back corner, as far from me as possible... thank you fickle chaos gods!

 

A squad of gaunts swamped my chosen Termies, but they were up to the task and swatted away most of the attacks... one termie died, but in turn they killed 3-4 gaunts, giving me a minor victory.

 

With the Mawloc's exposed, I didn't know what to do. My gut instinct was... ignore them. But this was a test game, so whatever.... I got out and shot them with pistols, and did no real damage. The Plague marines however did some pistol wounds to the second mawloc.

 

In close combat I took one mawloc down with Berzerkers. The other one held up though.....

 

Turns 4-5:

 

My Daemon Prince smacked down the Zoanthropes earlier in the round, but I couldn't use Warp Time because there was synapse everywhere and shadow in the warp was present (forcing me to test on 3D6). The Daemon Prince rolled up into some Warriors, then into terminator battle against the Gaunts.

 

Eventually my Daemon prince was forced into the battle against the Mawloc. I had to free up the Berzerkers....this meant I had to test for Warp Time to increase my chances of killing it... I was lucky and passed with a 1,3, and 5. The second Mawloc went down.

 

Oddly enough my termies lived through the onslaught of gaunt numbers which normally consume them in these types of games. They went on to assault the Nid drop pod... I mean it's only a drop pod right? How bad can it be?

 

All the remaining Termies died. Mental note... avoid close combat with Nid Drop pods... they are strength 5 power weapon attacks! But this was a test of kill points, so that's why I did it (in the future I'll just shoot though). I did get the drop pod.

 

Turns 5-6:

 

What's left? Basically his genestealers came swooping in and outright murdered a LOT of Berzerkers. He had trouble with rhino's... his shooting just continually bounced off them, but once I was out of them to assault mawloc's I knew I'd get a bit tarpitted into them. My fault, but I really wanted to see what these Mawloc's could do.

 

Other people were watching the game at this point, and I wanted to end it and I knew I couldn't lose at this point but I wanted to test my Daemon Prince. Onlookers pushed me to use Warp Time against my better judgement against the Nid HQ... I rolled and failed an attack from the warp suffering a second wound... D'oh!!!

 

I did take down the HQ before losing my own, and in the end his genestealers and gaunts did do some significant damage in numbers, but not enough. He rolled into my Plague Marines with his remaining nids, (I forgot I had blight grenades) but he still bounced off... Nurgle was with me, I suffered no rends, and passed Feel No Pain saves to stay firm. The Plague Marines were too much for the remaining nids.....

 

 

End Game:

 

This was a bloody game. I didn't back down from any challenge, at times to my own detriment... but that's what test games are for, to test your limits. ;)

 

I had something like 13 Kill Points to his 5. My Oblits, Rhino's, Plague Marines, and I think a Khorne berzerker or two(?) were remaining. A solid victory but I can't help but wonder what would have happened if the Tyranid reserve rolls weren't so incredibly... awful. Scary thought.

 

So in post game thoughts, the Oblits did nothing, there was very little for them to do, on the plus side, they didn't die, and I like their survivability factor.

 

The Black Legion is ... ok. I am still undecided on lists. The HQ probably makes this list a little better than the Red Corsair list.

 

For now... I'm doing Black Legion unless I can be persuaded to try something styled a little differently. I saw new blood angels on the other table, and it looked nasty again.... I may face that next. :tu:

I have just joined this thread. haha Thanks for pointing out where your at..

 

You know you only live once. You played in tournaments before and I take it you have done well. And no one likes losing, but if it were me I would take the Huron list. I would put huron's lame old ass in it and take it as a challenge. No its not as competitive as the others, but they don't seem that scary either (Don't take offense I barely know what I am talking about.)

 

Next tournament you can bring a ball buster list.

 

 

If the thought of this makes you unhappy you question is answered.. Do the opposite and try to crack some miniature heads.

 

EDIT I forgot, elbow testicles was lawl.

Duh Prot, Iron Warriors all the way. I keep getting antsy and wanting to have a go at them again myself, now that I can paint. First I've got to finish the Dark Elves I'm working on, and then finish my Flesh Tearers, but after that, I'd like to make a trip back to chaos.

 

Too bad our list sucks.

Good bat rep. I even learned things about nids just reading it. I didn't know their drop pods were nasty in hth for instance.

 

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed reading it. I am glad I got to play that game because I really wanted to face the new stuff, including Doom. But yea, that drop pod taking down my termies so easily.... that came out of nowhere.

 

 

black legion are good because you can take anything...plus abaddon is fun to use from time to time!:woot:

 

Good luck mate...

 

Thanks, and while Abe is fun, I think a few Legions/Chapters do indeed have open options.

 

 

You know you only live once. You played in tournaments before and I take it you have done well. And no one likes losing, but if it were me I would take the Huron list. I would put huron's lame old ass in it and take it as a challenge.

 

Well I used to play tournaments more.... competitively. Yes, I have won larger tournaments in the past, but I haven't gone with a list to 'win' in years. Now I try to find that happy medium where I like to think I'm competitive but I'm not on the flavour of the month bandwagon. For instance, the guy that just won the 'sister' tournament to the one I might be attending took the ol' Ork Pain/Biker/Nob list.

 

It's out there, and I'll have to deal with stuff like that. I like your point about Huron and the 'challenge'.Thanks.

 

 

Duh Prot, Iron Warriors all the way. I keep getting antsy and wanting to have a go at them again myself, now that I can paint. First I've got to finish the Dark Elves I'm working on, and then finish my Flesh Tearers, but after that, I'd like to make a trip back to chaos.

 

Too bad our list sucks.

Vilicate! It seems like it has been ages since our early Iron Warriors conversations (I guess it's been... 8 years!). Good to see you again. I too was mightily tempted at Flesh Tearers, but stayed Chaos and variants until I picked up Space Wolves (which I can't finish in time for this tournie).

 

What's my Next Step:

 

I've really mulled this over, and I've come to the conclusion I like the Red Corsair background (especially Huron... thanks to Graham McNeil) and paint scheme better than the Black Legion. In essence, really what can one do that the either can't? Not much.

 

So I've modified my Red Corsair list slightly to includ 2x2 Oblits which I feel I need more that 2 Defilers (and 2 Oblits).

 

I really do want to use Huron in a tournament even if he is a bit overpriced. For now I've picked up some new Termies to add to my massive collection of things Chaos (for combi melta's).

 

Hopefully I'll have some pics to come next week. Next up... list tweaks? Or another batrep... whichever comes first. :lol: Thanks for the advice, keep it coming.

Thanks guys.

Yes, the Red Corsairs 'arrrrrr' back.

I still like Huron's background, though I can't say he will make the cut.

I don't have a bat-rep for this week because I decided to get my Wolves out. I still lost my game against a very shooty, mech IG army, and I mention this because during the game I couldn't help but realize that my Red Corsair army would probably get annihilated by this IG army I played!!!!

Still to give some sort of update, I got a new camera and thought I would try to take better pics of Huron... not sure if I succeeded, as he came out a bit 'oranger' and brighter than he is in real life.

med_gallery_2760_2335_72406.jpg

med_gallery_2760_2335_13849.jpg

med_gallery_2760_2335_110379.jpg

And these guys didn't really turn out because of the flash on the camera (I was experimenting):

med_gallery_2760_2335_19809.jpg

At the end of the day I need to adjust the list.... I feel I will get hammered with:

+Huron

+ 2 x 10 Marines (One with mark of Nurgle, Fist, 2 Plasma and One with mark of Slannesh 2 Meltas, Power Weapon) Both in Rhino's

+ 8 World Eaters (with Champ/Fist) in a Rhino (Huron rides here)

+ 4 Termies, 3 combi melta, 1 Flamer (Mandatory unit... I'm painting them now!)

+ 3 Oblits

+ Defiler

We'll see what happens this weekend.

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