Good tactics/units against Eldar?

[ServoBadger]

A friend of mine who usually plays Orks has just invested in an Eldar army. Since my only experience of the Eldar is one game where I temped them with a strange mix of space marines and tyranids, I thought I'd ask for some suggestions for dealing with them!

 

What I'm thinking so far:

 

I've just bought a LRC but given the plethora of Bright Lances I'm likely to be facing I think I'll be leaving it behind.

 

While Mephiston's been in every army list since the new Codex came out, I know my opponent will be taking Eldrad so I'm thinking I'd be better off without a Psyker?

 

I've not been using the Sanguinary Guard because I usually face Orks and Tyranids and I've always felt they'll get overwhelmed by numbers, but now I'm thinking maybe them and Dante, possibly deep striking near Farseers or isolated squads?

 

Any suggestions welcome!

[Lithanial]

Sanguinary guard would be a waste - few Eldar units need power weapons to deal with and at T3 they are easy enough to swamp under weight of attacks instead. All an elite unit like Sang Guard will do is die horribly to star cannons/fusion blasters etc - Eldar excel at killing small elite units.

[knife&fork]

There are many good eldar builds, but one thing just about all of them will have in common is the farseer being the backbone of the army. Take it out and you've removed a lot of the synergy that makes eldar deadly. I wouldn't rule out taking a librarian, but take it for the hood and don't expect to use a lot of powers yourself. What you should strongly consider is some kind of assassination unit deal with the farseer in particular and any other seer as well.

[DrummingBerserker21]

Baal Predator's are always an excellent choice, otherwise Sanguinary Priests can be used to help whether Bladestorms and other such Eldar tomfoolery as well as making your most basic infantry attack at the same iniative (well except the exarch). That and the normal tactics of trying to kill of fast units quickly so there can't be any late game contesting.The librarian is a good idea, just so you have some sort of pyschic defense.

[Mafty]

depends how many points you guys are playing. In 1500 points eldar dont get much, everything just simply costs to much, especially if hes playing mech.

 

In a 1500 mech eldar army, you can expect to see 3-6 grav tanks (wave serpents, falcon, fire prisms), and depending on the points invested in the tanks depends on how much gets put inside. If theres a lot of tanks, expect min sized squads inside those tanks. If not, youll see maxed bladestorming dire avengers, but that shouldnt scare T4 FNP marines, and hell have less on the board to worry about as well.

 

To put into perspective, a bright lanced wave serpent with spirit stones is 145 points.......the 10 man dire avengers with bladestorm is 152. Eldrad (if he takes him) is 210, while a regular farseer is around 150. Any competent list has fire dragons (often 2), which run 80 points plus the wave serpent. Thats about all you get in 1500 lol.

[ServoBadger]

We almost always play 2000pts.

 

If not the Sanguinary Guard, what would you recommend for hunting Farseers?

 

Also, any thoughts on HQ? I've yet to use Astorath... in fact I'm yet to pick up Astorath from my local GW, but that's beside the point. Dante's curse is tempting, I must admit.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

A good person to ask would be Grey Mage; he has a sizeable(?) Eldar collection and has written a Tactica article upon the subject of PA Vs. Eldar.. Drop him a PM or hunt out his article.

 

:devil:

[Mafty]

We almost always play 2000pts.

 

If not the Sanguinary Guard, what would you recommend for hunting Farseers?

 

Also, any thoughts on HQ? I've yet to use Astorath... in fact I'm yet to pick up Astorath from my local GW, but that's beside the point. Dante's curse is tempting, I must admit.

 

well I as well play eldar, and have for a bit now, Ive also played against the new BA and am looking to build a BA army of my own. So I can tell you what typical Eldar has (well I think I did that in my above post).

 

Assuming he isnt using foot eldar (if he is, well your speed will win), a typical 2k mech army:

 

Farseer guide, doom, ROWarding, ROWitnessing, spirit stones: 150

 

10 Howling banshees, exarch, executioner in wave serpent w/ shuriken cannon, spirit stones: 282

5 Fire dragons in wave serpent w/ shuriken cannon, spirit stones: 190

5 Fire dragons in wave serpent w/ shuriken cannon, spirit stones: 190

 

10 dire avengers, exarch, dual cats, bladestorm in wave serpent w/ bright lances, spirit stones: 297

10 dire avengers, exarch, dual cats, bladestorm in wave serpent w/ bright lances, spirit stones: 297

10 dire avengers, exarch, dual cats, bladestorm in wave serpent w/ bright lances, spirit stones: 297

 

Fire Prism: 115

Fire Prism: 115

 

Thats roughly 2k, and I would wager something thats fairly common.

 

Of course the other alternative to that list at 2k is a seer council, which would replace the banshees, and would require some downgrading on the dire avengers to fit the points (jetbike council is around 400-600 points). Eithere way its built around farseers, fire dragons, dire avengers, all in tanks.

 

 

Lots of things counter this, mainly things that mess up eldars speed, or make their speed useless. Eldar is very much a "pack hunter" army, so they stick together. Melta is moot against front and side armor of most of their tanks, as are lascannons. Missile launchers are the best weapon to take them down at range. Anything that can stop psychic powers from going off incredibly ruin eldars day (especially true for seer council), BUT dont bank on casting ANY psychic powers with runes of warding up, since youll likely suffer perils every time.

 

With that said, things that can deepstrike behind them hurt really bad for 2 reasons. 1, eldar tanks are vulnerable to assaults (av10 rear), and if they deepstrike well, the rear armor goes pop easily. Also bladestorming dire avengers wont hurt FNP marines, so you can withstanding shooting before you assault and kill them in one go. What eldar will hurt, are things with 2+ saves, and heavy tanks. Land raiders go poof on turn 2 almost always. and mephiston probably wont live to do damage.

[SamaNagol]

Predator with T/L Lascannon turret and Autocannon sponsons.

 

Razorbacks

 

I personally like a DH Inquisitor Lord in a Rhino with a Psychic Hood and 2 Mystics.

[Grey Mage]

Missile Launchers are your best friends against any kind of eldar, ever. I fully suggest taking a devastator squad with four of them. That they are very good against other armies only helps the point.

 

Whirlwinds are amazing. Bust open a transport, drop a pie-plate on their head that kills most aspect warriors and gaurdians on a 2+. Also great for getting pathfinders out of their 2+ cover saves.

 

I fully suggest taking sanguinairy priests- I5 on the charge is a huge thing fighting eldar, allowing you to go simultaneously with anyone who isnt of the "seargent" level or higher. Feel no pain is also very useful, especially against the most dreaded marine killers alive- Dark Reapers.

 

Lastly, and most importantly, remember that an Eldar player has as many options and varieties of playstyles to choose from in their one codex as the Blood Angels and Space Wolves codices combined. Adapt and overcome.

[Mafty]

Lastly, and most importantly, remember that an Eldar player has as many options and varieties of playstyles to choose from in their one codex as the Blood Angels and Space Wolves codices combined. Adapt and overcome.

 

LMAO. you have to be kidding me? Eldar have 1 maybe 2 builds. Both of which are mech. You either do mech wave serpent spam, or seer council jetbikes.

 

Foot eldar is NOT a viable build ever (dont even bother trying to convince me otherwise, its simply not viable)

 

Space wolves and BA both have a ton more options than eldar, its insane to think otherwise

[Grey Mage]

Lastly, and most importantly, remember that an Eldar player has as many options and varieties of playstyles to choose from in their one codex as the Blood Angels and Space Wolves codices combined. Adapt and overcome.

 

LMAO. you have to be kidding me? Eldar have 1 maybe 2 builds. Both of which are mech. You either do mech wave serpent spam, or seer council jetbikes.

 

Foot eldar is NOT a viable build ever (dont even bother trying to convince me otherwise, its simply not viable)

 

Space wolves and BA both have a ton more options than eldar, its insane to think otherwise

And your simply wrong. I brought Eldar to tournament every month for the first year of 5th edition, took 1rst in 7 of them, and 3rd in three others. Cutting the price of every unit in half by not taking a transport opens up alot of possibilities.

 

Just because you dont know how to do it properly doesnt mean it cant be done.

[SamaNagol]

Rocket Launchhers, while a great utility weapon and brilliant loadouts for Long Fangs, have no place in a Blood Angels army. Static backline units like Devastators are just an utter waste of the BA inbuilt bonuses.

[Grey Mage]

Not true, a devastator squad that has fearless is a devastator squad that can hug any board edge you need it to with impunity, and that cannot be pinned by enemy forces.

 

Add in the cheaper weapon prices, and theyre a clear winner for their value. Certainly more useful against eldar than a vindicator- fast or otherwise.

[SamaNagol]

In which way is a unit with a 1 in 6 chance of becoming fearless which plays in completely the opposite way to the strengths of Blood Agnels more useful than a 36" effective ranged Vindicator?

[Grey Mage]

In which way is a unit with a 1 in 6 chance of becoming fearless which plays in completely the opposite way to the strengths of Blood Agnels more useful than a 36" effective ranged Vindicator?

That vindicator, particularly against eldar, but also against DPing forces, is much more likely to die, and die quickly.

 

And its only opposite if you choose it to be- the BA codex suffers not a wit in its shooting ability. There are incredibly few things you can do with C:SM that you cant do with C:BA when it comes to any form of gunline.

[SamaNagol]

While you can indeed run a SM gunline with BA, you are paying points for innate abilities which do not benefit a static form of play.

[Grey Mage]

Wheres the surcharge? BA devastators are cheaper than SM devies, tactical squad prices are almost identical, simply a couple different options and pricier-but better- rhinos. Heck, Sterngaurd didnt even get more expensive, you just cant throw down a 175pt I1 character to make them scoring.

 

Name one way that a BA gunline force loses anything, anything at all, to a SM gunline force? Combat Tactics? The ability is so under-used most players wont even notice the difference, and many trade it out for twin linked something-or-other or scoring sterngaurd anyways.

[clanfield]

i agree a foot eldar force is very good only last week i took down a 3k black legion force with abadon in it with a foot force that had no assult units in it

[Taranis]

Missil launchers in a devestator squad is a good choice against eldar.

 

If you can raise the initiative to 5 with priests you can use Ras to overcome all their infantry units and a powerfist will safeguard against Wraithlords, wraithguard and the avatar. Also good against vehicles.

 

A psychic hood on a librarian could foil many farseer powers at no risk to the librarian several times per turn. Save the psychic abilities of the librarian for his force weapon. Use it to slay multi wound models. Lost my undamaged avatar a month ago to a space wolf army a month ago.

Dont use psychic powers as you will be rolling 3D6 and use the combined total for psychic tests.

 

Avoid being shot by fire dragons.

 

Baal with heavy bolter and extra storm bolter can ruin a eldar unit per turn. One is good, two are better, three are devestating.

 

10 Death company with bolters and a fist in a drop pod could be a good character killing unit. Shoot in turn one. go for the nearest in turn two. If you can't assault, rapid fire.

 

A.

[knife&fork]

How to best deal with wraithguard spam? I've seen it happen more and more lately...

[Taranis]

10 man Ras, 2 Plasma gun, 1 PF.

 

Furioso Dread with talons

 

Missil devestators - Ap3 shots.

 

A.

[Grey Mage]

How to best deal with wraithguard spam? I've seen it happen more and more lately...

Well, Powerfists are a good start of course. But frankly, between furious charge, an 18" charge range, and feel no pain you should have it made.

 

Why? Because while they are Str 5 T6 with a 3+ theyre also just 1 attack a peice. As much as I love giving them enhance, Im one of the few who does... for the most part your three attacks a turn will take care of it, it just takes longer than usual.

 

Dont let them get near your vehicles, dont let them shoot you, and hit them with as close to a full strength squad as you can. Between BAs assault abilities and the problems with losing combat as a fearless unit it should be over in 3-4 turns.

[The Yncarne]

Scouts with sniper rifles are good against Wraithlords and probably just as good with Wraithguard. I've not seen much Wraithguard in the local meta game and I only have 5 models in my lists. I've had good luck with Baals against the prisms and falcons and assume they'd still be ace against infantry. Just waiting for the group player to wise up and move to all Serpents in his list. I also think the rocket launcher is the best overall against Eldar; krak against vehicles and Wraithlords with frag against most others.

 

I've found that not spreading your marines too thin is the best overall tactic against Eldar. They don't have a large amount of template weapons yet and their speed can make it easy to eliminate isolated units of marines. Having a unit nearby to counterattack anyone foolish enough to assault a unit can make a big difference.

 

I've seen a bike/walker army in a tourney 6 months ago and the key to beating it was to take out the walkers. I haven't played or played against an all bike list so I can't help there.

[Vilicate]

Foot eldar is NOT a viable build ever (dont even bother trying to convince me otherwise, its simply not viable)

 

My 'Ardboyz placings beg to differ.

 

I think Baals will be really nice against eldar, especially if you can get to the rear of those serpents; plus they'll tear up any aspect warriors.

 

Vindicators are also really nice; being able to put wounds on big bad units of wraithguard or lords if he's got them, plus able to take down those skimmers fairly easily.

 

ALSO, whirlwinds are pretty solid if they end up not going fully mech and having rangers on the board; no cover saves is pretty rough for those units.

 

Mostly though, you're at a fairly large disadvantage; eldar are probably the best army in the game at dismantling marines. It's who they're born to fight.