Good tactics/units against Eldar?

[igotsmeakabob!!]

My friend plays the most annoying Eldar force. It's great to play against 'cuz I don't win often, learning a bit more each time he zooms around.

 

We're looking at super-mobile Eldar.

Banshees, Fire Dragons and Seer Councils in Wave Serpents, occasionally some Dire Avengers in Falcons (he just found out how good holofields were).

His troops are a couple small squads of Guardian Jetbikers.

 

With 2/3 of the missions being objective-holding ones, he can blitz to contest or claim most of them on turn 5 or 6.

 

Fighting him is fun AND a pain in the ass... but I could use some assistance against his 36" moving per turn force.

[Leonaides]

Baals are great for doing nasty things to Farseer councils. All it takes is for 1 or 2 rounds fo shooting and the farseer ought to be taking ID hits from your assault cannons... If he's turned up with a seer council, well whoop-de-do - 10 shots at 3 to hit (call it 7 hits) 2 to wound (6 wounds), 3 dead. do it again, and thats a reasonable seer council down the pan. Palyed an Eldar with 2 10-man wraithguard squads (plus warlock/spritiseer or whatever it was) in it the other day - my SG squad dealt with one on turn 1, and my 10-man assualt squad charged the other before it got a chance to fire on turn 2. turn 4 and the last of them died and i'd only lost 4 marines (i had rather bad luck with PF fluffing his attacks). the rest of my army castled up, lethim come to me under fire, then countercharged when he reached range. It was a wipe-out. Dante even survived 3 rounds vs an avatar before a PF sergeatn managed to put the last wound on it.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

The most annoying thing about his seer council is fortune, rerolling his invulnerable saves is a HUGE pain in my arse... not to mention rerolling the cover saves on his wave serpent.

[Grey Mage]

The most annoying thing about his seer council is fortune, rerolling his invulnerable saves is a HUGE pain in my arse... not to mention rerolling the cover saves on his wave serpent.

Who cares?

 

Seriously... the unit isnt scoring, it IS expensive, and if its tied up in CC with FNP marines its not going anywhere for a while. Hit with an assault squad, or a SG squad if your feeling generous, and just stay there for a while. They are only a problem if you let them stay mobile.

 

Same goes for Waveserpents- Missile Launchers are king, anything bigger is overkill really. I suggest bringing atleast a brace of typhoons, and hunt down fire dragons first, followed by any scoring unit he has. Throw in a Whirlwind for nuking any squad that loses its transport and you should be set.

 

If you need to scale it up for larger points battles, then I reccommend getting a 10 man devastator squad with 4 MLs and combat squading them into a 2x2.

 

MM attack bikes can also be quite useful, and good to throw in for an all-round list. While its not often youll get the +2d6 pen against a serpent, there are other vehicles in an eldar army where you can enjoy the almost gauranteed pen vs AV 10 or 12.

 

A Baal would round out the list nicely, heavy bolters and assault cannon giving a nice way to bring direct fire on exposed squads and plenty of dakka to spam on units like Seer Councils and other jetbikes.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Thanks for the recommendations GM. Eldrad might accompany that large seer council sometimes, his PW makes it a bit difficult to throw units at and stick.

I only have one Typhoon, but I've been considering a 4xML Dev squad.

[aeren]

As someone who played eldar for two years against almost nothing but PA armies, I can say pretty much every one of these guys has said important things in bits and pieces. The main things to remember are:

 

-One jetbike with a shuriken cannon can ruin your dreadnought's or predator's day when he hops over you and pops you in the AV10.

-Spread out and you die...eldar can pick apart any unit that is left

-heavy bolters insta gib everything but striking scorpions, dark reapers, autarchs, and wraithguard/lords

-Fire dragons, if allowed to reach what they want, will melt it in a heartbeat, whether it be a terminator squad or a land raider

-Dark reapers will turn a happy ten man unit without FNP into a sad dead one, or wreck pretty much any vehicle that is less than av14 when they and their exarch with an eldar missle launcher and fast shot get guided by a farseer

-a unit of howling banshees with a farseer will kill anything you throw at it, so kill their WS as fast as you can

-striking scorpions are basically an infiltrating marine with 4 strength 4 attacks on the charge that can take a cheap power fist, so don't just throw one squad at them. If they footslog, you can stay away from them easy since they don't have fleet

-concentrate one one unit at a time, because their specialist troops are two points cheaper than an assault marine, and they are T3 with mostly 4+ at best saves

 

As said before, bladestorm won't be a big deal with FNP, and even dark reaper shots (if he even takes them) can be shrugged off. If you have mobility, his zoomy stuff won't be as potent as it usually is, and if he is one of those silly guardian spammers, laugh as your assault squads tear up units at a time.

[aeren]

As someone who played eldar for two years against almost nothing but PA armies, I can say pretty much every one of these guys has said important things in bits and pieces. The main things to remember are:

 

-One jetbike with a shuriken cannon can ruin your dreadnought's or predator's day when he hops over you and pops you in the AV10.

-Spread out and you die...eldar can pick apart any unit that is left

-heavy bolters insta gib everything but striking scorpions, dark reapers, autarchs, and wraithguard/lords

-Fire dragons, if allowed to reach what they want, will melt it in a heartbeat, whether it be a terminator squad or a land raider

-Dark reapers will turn a happy ten man unit without FNP into a sad dead one, or wreck pretty much any vehicle that is less than av14 when they and their exarch with an eldar missle launcher and fast shot get guided by a farseer

-a unit of howling banshees with a farseer will kill anything you throw at it, so kill their WS as fast as you can

-striking scorpions are basically an infiltrating marine with 4 strength 4 attacks on the charge that can take a cheap power fist, so don't just throw one squad at them. If they footslog, you can stay away from them easy since they don't have fleet

-concentrate one one unit at a time, because their specialist troops are two points cheaper than an assault marine, and they are T3 with mostly 4+ at best saves

 

As said before, bladestorm won't be a big deal with FNP, and even dark reaper shots (if he even takes them) can be shrugged off. If you have mobility, his zoomy stuff won't be as potent as it usually is, and if he is one of those silly guardian spammers, laugh as your assault squads tear up units at a time.

[aeren]

As someone who played eldar for two years against almost nothing but PA armies, I can say pretty much every one of these guys has said important things in bits and pieces. The main things to remember are:

 

-One jetbike with a shuriken cannon can ruin your dreadnought's or predator's day when he hops over you and pops you in the AV10.

-Spread out and you die...eldar can pick apart any unit that is left

-heavy bolters insta gib everything but striking scorpions, dark reapers, autarchs, and wraithguard/lords

-Fire dragons, if allowed to reach what they want, will melt it in a heartbeat, whether it be a terminator squad or a land raider

-Dark reapers will turn a happy ten man unit without FNP into a sad dead one, or wreck pretty much any vehicle that is less than av14 when they and their exarch with an eldar missle launcher and fast shot get guided by a farseer

-a unit of howling banshees with a farseer will kill anything you throw at it, so kill their WS as fast as you can

-striking scorpions are basically an infiltrating marine with 4 strength 4 attacks on the charge that can take a cheap power fist, so don't just throw one squad at them. If they footslog, you can stay away from them easy since they don't have fleet

-concentrate one one unit at a time, because their specialist troops are two points cheaper than an assault marine, and they are T3 with mostly 4+ at best saves

 

As said before, bladestorm won't be a big deal with FNP, and even dark reaper shots (if he even takes them) can be shrugged off. If you have mobility, his zoomy stuff won't be as potent as it usually is, and if he is one of those silly guardian spammers, laugh as your assault squads tear up units at a time.

[aeren]

Dear Lord, what have I done?

[Mezkh]

I've done well in tournaments with my Eldar,

 

If you're doing any army tailoring, don't waste your time on super units. A lot of things in my army could junk a Land Raider, leaving the terminators to slog it. Lots of cheap Rhinos would be more of a problem, long range firepower doesn't come cheap/plentiful/easy.

 

Deepstriking/podding units can cause plenty of problems.

 

Whirlwinds are definately scary, faster ones even more so. Don't bother with Vindicators when you can use whirlwinds.

 

The Str8AP1 Bloodstrike missles are the perfect weapon for downing the most dangerous Wave serpent(s) quickly at range. The Falcon/Prism's aren't as important. Crippling wave serpents will cripple the army.

 

It would be a real shame for an I6 Exarch or Autarch to eat a Sanguinary priest first thing in combat.

 

Their troops can be fragile, and a lot of Eldar won't take many of them over other toys. Play the objectives!

 

It wouldn't be an easy game playing Blood Angels with my Eldar.

[Tame]

Reviving this thread since Banshees just slaughtered my army @ 750 pts <_<

 

I was wondering, when going for an assault oriented army, what are my choices against Banshees (and similar good cc units, but Banshee are really my #1 problem right now) ? I like the in-your-face style of jump packs, so I don't really want to take Devastators. I'm considering Baals, but was wondering if Furiosos weren't a good choice as well: with AV13 at the front, and many Eldars striking at force 3 in close combat, maybe 5 or even 6 with some wargear, they wouldn't even be able to glance, let alone penetrate the armor. What do you think of the idea? Of course, I still need to actually get the Dreadnought to close combat, but if I pull it off, they would simply be locked for as long as it takes the dread to kill them...

 

Thoughts ?

[Pigeons]

Reviving this thread since Banshees just slaughtered my army @ 750 pts <_<

 

I was wondering, when going for an assault oriented army, what are my choices against Banshees (and similar good cc units, but Banshee are really my #1 problem right now) ? I like the in-your-face style of jump packs, so I don't really want to take Devastators. I'm considering Baals, but was wondering if Furiosos weren't a good choice as well: with AV13 at the front, and many Eldars striking at force 3 in close combat, maybe 5 or even 6 with some wargear, they wouldn't even be able to glance, let alone penetrate the armor. What do you think of the idea? Of course, I still need to actually get the Dreadnought to close combat, but if I pull it off, they would simply be locked for as long as it takes the dread to kill them...

 

Thoughts ?

 

 

 

best choice against banshees is to not fight them. they'll be in a transport practically always. drop the transport and let them take two turns getting to your lines while you wipe out his scoring units with weight of fire.

 

 

 

 

edit: the big thing about eldar is to remember to choppa the dakka and dakka the choppa. the eldar work on synergy. there's a unit for everything, there really aren't ANY units that do multiple things well. so while a unit of dark reapers can give you fits with their shooting, if you swamp them in close combat they're pretty much done.

[Tame]

best choice against banshees is to not fight them. they'll be in a transport practically always. drop the transport and let them take two turns getting to your lines while you wipe out his scoring units with weight of fire.

 

And in Annihilation games ? Or if they are contesting my objectives ? Or just behind a scording units I need to kill ? Sooner or later I'll have to do something about them.

 

We play small (< 1000 pts) games, and the base of my army are 2 10-men Assault Squads with Jump Packs, that leaves enough points for one or two support units max. One assault squad can't really survive one round of combat with 10 banshees, which is why I was thinking about stuff to block them like Furioso Dreadnoughts. Is it really a bad idea?

[Leonaides]

2 assault squads, 1 baal, 1 Autocannon/lascannon Predator, season to taste with characters. Liking Assualt troops is all well and good, but you really should have soem fire support ion there, the Baal can kick out a LOT of firepower in such a small game, and the other pred should be enough to tackle serpents/falcons to make his banshees walk towrads you under fire from the baal. Equally, either tanks can still threaten his vehicles, and the nromal pred can still kick out 4 instant death shots per turn on any troops he has or threaten avators/wraithlords.

 

Your dreadnought will not be able to block the banshees because it wont be keeping up with your assualt squads, or if you stay passive and wait for them to come to you, you might as well have tacs to take advantage of the shooting, and the banshees could still just run round your dread (unless its about 7" in front of the entire rest of your army).

[SamaNagol]

Fast Vehicles mean you *should* be able to get shots at side armour.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Destroy the transports, then kill the psykers. After losing their mobility, you can outmaneuvre them and work like a scapel: Get rid of the farseers and stuff, and of course the seercouncil is tough as nails, but only as long as they can reroll their damn invul save.

 

If you can afford it, a unit Grey Knights with Psybolters is deadly against the seercouncil, pumping out 3 shots of instantkill, ignoring invulnerable saves and awesome, those guys can really rip some stuff apart. Or use the Grey Knight flamers, but they have to be rather close in order to get something grilled.

 

And, of course, one will have to use a psyker as well. The psychic hood has proved to be the most annoying weapon against Eldar, you should be able to block at least some of their powers, and that will weaken his assaults(no doom for you!), his shooting or his toughness(no rerolling saves, think of the seer council!) and therefore his army will struggle to do enough damage to win the game.

If you destroy the transports, that is. And those Falcons.

 

Snorri

[Protector of Titan]

All good stuff

I'm starting tourny play with some friends this week, (1000 pts, 1 list for the length of the tourny)

 

The problem I'm running into is how to deal with the Eldar, since I've never played against them before. Currently I'm running:

 

Mephiston

Assault Squad (10 man with 1 melta gun and 1 plasma gun)

Scout Squad (5 man, snipers & camo cloaks)

Death Company (5 man1 infernus pistol, a thunderhammer, 4 power weapons)

Dread w/ drop pod

 

My basic over all plan is to infiltrate with scouts, drop pod assault the dread, try to move up Meph through cover, then deep strike with the AS and DC.

But I'm still not sure how well that will work, seeing as I have no experience facing Eldar. The other hitch is, I need this list to be competitive against vanilla SM & Chaos SMs as well....

[Leonaides]

Sweet Angel in His Tomb! Drop some of those weapon upgrades on the DC, far too many points sunk into that unit. In fact, drop the whole unit:

 

For the same points you could have a Terminator Squad with better shooting, 4 PF's and 1 CF, and more tactical control.

 

Or 2 Heavy Bolter/Autocannon Predators

 

Or a tooled-up Furioso in a drop-pod

 

AND a Sanguinary Priest with JP to accompany your assault squad (who really ought to have at least a Power Weapon - I'd drop the Plasmagun personally as firing it means you cant charge).

[Protector of Titan]

yea....

 

I've heard and read mixed reviews of the DC, but mostly bad...

 

I had already bought the models, so I was going to to test them out...

 

I'm trying to keep to mainly DSing, except for Meph and my scout squad, and close combat.

 

I like the Furioso idea, may just pick that up with the drop pod.

[Leonaides]

DC are fine under certain circumstances, but with them and Meph, you dont have anything else thats effective. An assualt squad that will lose out in assault becuase its geared for shooting, a dreadnought thats a 1-shot expendable vehicle, and a scout squad that wont be able to kill enough from the units that come after it to stop them.

 

Seriously, have a look through the codex and see waht you could do with those points - maybe a dev squad, maybe a tac squad and rhino and attack bike... A landraider even (for Meph to ride in).

[Pigeons]

best choice against banshees is to not fight them. they'll be in a transport practically always. drop the transport and let them take two turns getting to your lines while you wipe out his scoring units with weight of fire.

 

And in Annihilation games ? Or if they are contesting my objectives ? Or just behind a scording units I need to kill ? Sooner or later I'll have to do something about them.

 

We play small (< 1000 pts) games, and the base of my army are 2 10-men Assault Squads with Jump Packs, that leaves enough points for one or two support units max. One assault squad can't really survive one round of combat with 10 banshees, which is why I was thinking about stuff to block them like Furioso Dreadnoughts. Is it really a bad idea?

 

 

 

 

well i'm looking at your scouts entry, and you could try something like a scout squad with 8 scouts, one with a missile launcher, 6 with sniper rifles, and give the sergeant a combi-plasma. infiltrate them behind the wave serpent carrying the banshees, gives you a round of fire on it's weak rear armor, and the chance to make them walk all game. then you can pick them apart at your leisure with shooting(dakka pred instead of that furioso would work nicely)

 

 

 

the problems are obvious though, a.) it's a bit of a pricey unit that doesn't have much use after it pops the serpent, and b.) it's dependent on you getting the first turn

 

 

if you don't, the serpent just zips away from you.

 

 

thats just me trying to get tricky, though. there's obviously better and more reliable options

[Zeller]

On a note of killing Wraithguard. Might I suggest Sternguard? Use the rounds that wound on a 2+, especially at rapid fire range if you dare get that close, and surely the 1's and 2's will pop up.

 

In addition I'd like to second the suggestion to throw a dreadnought at a banshee squad. They will never be able to harm it but if they have Hit and Run you will be a bit more pressed for manuevering.

 

Has anyone considered running 2-3 hellfire dreads to knock out serpents? Aside from the obvious inability to catch the tanks if they run could it work well? Thoughts?

[Pigeons]

On a note of killing Wraithguard. Might I suggest Sternguard? Use the rounds that wound on a 2+, especially at rapid fire range if you dare get that close, and surely the 1's and 2's will pop up.

 

In addition I'd like to second the suggestion to throw a dreadnought at a banshee squad. They will never be able to harm it but if they have Hit and Run you will be a bit more pressed for manuevering.

 

Has anyone considered running 2-3 hellfire dreads to knock out serpents? Thoughts?

 

 

 

yeah, remember they're only strength 3. their power weapons can't even pop a rhino.

 

 

watch for an exarch with executioner though, it makes the exarch str 5.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Good note for you who bought the boxes and discovered you don't want to run DC... the pieces look :cussing awesome on regular BA's. Even the X's can be painted red, or use your company blood drop color.

[Protector of Titan]

yea, I'll probably be doing that, the DC model bits do look pretty awesome.

 

I've gone through a bunch of list changes trying to find something that works...

 

I need to finalize something by tuesday so that's the problem. Once I turn in the list for this tourny, I can't change it...

 

I was doing a 5 man assault, meph, termies in rhinos and an 8 man scout with a rocket launcher, but it just wasn't working for me.

 

I want to try and stick to jump packers, so I'll probably pick up Dante or Asorath and ditch Meph...