Space Wolf Wolf HQs and fenrisian wolves as wargear - questi

[Levitas]

I know the answers on here and already been discussed. The search function didnt point me in the right direction at all, I thought 'fenrisian wolves wargear' would do the trick, but not so much. :D

 

Q) If the HQ is targeted in close combat due to his IC status, can he allocate wounds to the fenrisian wolves? As they are his wargear?

 

Obviously in shooting I can allocate but not sure how they works in CC.

 

I'm toying with the idea of adding these to my Thunderlord to boost his survivability, good plan? worth it?

 

Again I know this has been covered, so a handy link or swift answer would be worthy of an ale!

[Grey Mage]

No, theyre still a seperate model, so he cannot allocate to them from himself. They also, according to the FAQ, dont count as being in the same unit as him... wich stinks.

 

So yeah, only helps vs shooting.

[Spacefrisian]

Top tip: always check an official GW errata first when you wanna check something.

[Valerian]

Top tip: always check an official GW errata first when you wanna check something.

 

Except, the answer isn't in an official GW errata ("hard rules"), it is in the FAQ section ("soft rules"), which are essentially nothing more than the House Rules that GW uses.

 

V

[stinkenheim]

well the GW FAQ pretty much addresses this, and whilst it isn't errata its an accepted way of using certain things during the game. of course you could houserule it yourself if you dislike the outcome but you may find opponents are not agreeable to such a solution...

 

Q. Do Fenrisian Wolves bought as wargear by an

Independent Character act as a Retinue during

an assault?

A. No – the Independent Character may still be

singled out even though his Fenrisian Wolves are

still alive. For example, a unit of Blood Claws is

joined by a Wolf Lord with two Fenrisian Wolves

as wargear. In an assault the enemy would be

able to direct his attacks towards three separate

targets – the Blood Claws, the Wolf Lord, or the

Fenrisian Wolves.

 

rather than debate the intricacies of the rule or how you would play here are links to several threads already out there detailing this situation.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...&hl=retinue

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...&hl=retinue

[eyeslikethunder]

But this can be useful in combat as it allows you a small sacrifice unit. So you charge a unit with a powerful combat monster hq inside it. You have bought 1 wolf for your hq with a squad attqched. The wolf engages the enemy HQ while your unit and HQ engages the rest the unit. Now his HQ can only kill 1 model the wolf as he counts as separate unit and the only 1 he is in base to base with. While you can slaughter the rest his unit and therefore win combat. Hopefully even run him down, chase him off the board or force him to take extra wounds from combat resolution.

.

[Levitas]

But this can be useful in combat as it allows you a small sacrifice unit. So you charge a unit with a powerful combat monster hq inside it. You have bought 1 wolf for your hq with a squad attqched. The wolf engages the enemy HQ while your unit and HQ engages the rest the unit. Now his HQ can only kill 1 model the wolf as he counts as separate unit and the only 1 he is in base to base with. While you can slaughter the rest his unit and therefore win combat. Hopefully even run him down, chase him off the board or force him to take extra wounds from combat resolution.

.

 

Excellent. Worth the ten points I say.

 

I did read the GW FAQ first, still wasnt clear whether as they were wargear then they could be allocated wounds. But thanks for clearing that up, and for the handy link!

 

I think i may well try a couple as the TWC unit is small and vulnerable to nasty shooting attacks.

[Lumdin]

I have done similiar with using my wolf to get in base contact with either a PF model or hq in the opposing unit to get them to have to pump their attacks into the wolf.

 

 

But reading this has given me an idea, if i charge my wolf as a wargear into an enemy squad and turned him sideways, casuing him to have 3 models instead of model in base contact but still had room to get my IC and someof the unit into base contact.

 

Is that legal? or cheese?

 

Just curious, have not tried it and not sure I will.

[Grey Mage]

Your closest model has to touch their closest model, and you must get as many models as possible into BTB... after that you can do what you want.

[Grimtooth]

Fen wolves as gear and as a squad are excellent for limiting who and what gets into base with your Wolf Lord on TWM. On the charge you go closest model to closest and can insulate your IC to be pumping his hits into the squad while the opponent is wasting his PF/TH/PW/etc into the wolves.

[Grimtooth]

I am chilling out on my couch, and thinking of this thread.

 

Say I have an IC joined to a big unit of Fenrisian wolves and I charge Mephiston. I place it so my wolves are all base to base with Mephiston and my IC is in the next layer of attacks, btb with a wolf in base to base with Mephiston. Is that IC pretty much immune to the first round of assault with Mephiston but still able to attack?

 

You could insta kill Mephiston with a Rune Priest in that first round of combat with Wolves taking the brunt of his attack while being free to attack him with the Rune Priest. Toss a thunderhammer equipped character in that same squad of wolves with same positioning and the rune priest will get to attack first in the second round of close combat insta-killing Mephiston again.

[winternight]

I am chilling out on my couch, and thinking of this thread.

 

Say I have an IC joined to a big unit of Fenrisian wolves and I charge Mephiston. I place it so my wolves are all base to base with Mephiston and my IC is in the next layer of attacks, btb with a wolf in base to base with Mephiston. Is that IC pretty much immune to the first round of assault with Mephiston but still able to attack?

 

You could insta kill Mephiston with a Rune Priest in that first round of combat with Wolves taking the brunt of his attack while being free to attack him with the Rune Priest. Toss a thunderhammer equipped character in that same squad of wolves with same positioning and the rune priest will get to attack first in the second round of close combat insta-killing Mephiston again.

 

No. For assault purposes an IC is considered a separate unit. Models in a unit can only fight if they are in BtB contact with an enemy model or within 2" of a model that is in BtB contact with an enemy model. Your IC is not in BtB contact and not within 2" of a model in it's unit (which is only himself) so he can't attack. He also can't be directly attacked, but will lose combat when Mephiston slaughters your wolves.

[Grimtooth]

I am chilling out on my couch, and thinking of this thread.

 

Say I have an IC joined to a big unit of Fenrisian wolves and I charge Mephiston. I place it so my wolves are all base to base with Mephiston and my IC is in the next layer of attacks, btb with a wolf in base to base with Mephiston. Is that IC pretty much immune to the first round of assault with Mephiston but still able to attack?

 

You could insta kill Mephiston with a Rune Priest in that first round of combat with Wolves taking the brunt of his attack while being free to attack him with the Rune Priest. Toss a thunderhammer equipped character in that same squad of wolves with same positioning and the rune priest will get to attack first in the second round of close combat insta-killing Mephiston again.

 

No. For assault purposes an IC is considered a separate unit. Models in a unit can only fight if they are in BtB contact with an enemy model or within 2" of a model that is in BtB contact with an enemy model. Your IC is not in BtB contact and not within 2" of a model in it's unit (which is only himself) so he can't attack. He also can't be directly attacked, but will lose combat when Mephiston slaughters your wolves.

 

For some reason I knew that and knew exactly what page to look when I first started reading your post.

[eyeslikethunder]

The other use of wolves can be receiving a charge from a unit that is very good / receives a very strong bonus on the charge like blood angels with a priest and chaplain.

If positioned correctly using their long base you can make sure that they are the only models they can reach and using rhinos/vehicles/terrain on either side so no counter charge is possible so they can only get into B2B with the wolves so can only kill the wolves in the first turn. allowing you to pile in counter attack units in your turn or even hope to escape combat to fight another day with minimal losses

 

Most the time counter attack makes this unneccessary but it can be useful against certain units or just buy yourself time to counter charge with support units

[Valerian]

The other use of wolves can be receiving a charge from a unit that is very good / receives a very strong bonus on the charge like blood angels with a priest and chaplain.

If positioned correctly using their long base you can make sure that they are the only models they can reach and using rhinos/vehicles/terrain on either side so no counter charge is possible so they can only get into B2B with the wolves so can only kill the wolves in the first turn. allowing you to pile in counter attack units in your turn or even hope to escape combat to fight another day with minimal losses

 

The liklihood of pulling something like this off is about zero.

 

V

[eyeslikethunder]

Done it a few times if you have a few GH squads in rhinos/razorbacks advancing together to jump out and use concentrated firepwer it tends to happen naturally but its much less use than my using wolves on the charge tactics. But just something for players to keep in mind while playing also it was in answer to that fact that someone they are only use in shooting not CC which in main is true but just wanted to point their are a couple options for their use in CC. of course this leaves tightly packed so beware of enemy with templates

 

The chance of pulling it off is pretty good but the chance of needing it with space wolves much less due to our ability in combat but can be handy on the odd occasion

 

 

 

BA= enemy FW =wolves GH = grey hunter WL=SW hero

__

|--| = Transport

|--|

 

so here we have it

 

BA BA

 

 

 

 

 

____ ....... ____

|----|FWFW|----|

|----|GHWL|----|

|----|GHGH|----|

|___|GHGH|___|

 

 

So the wolves and the rhinos make sure they cannot kill your other squad members when receiving the charge

 

Eyes

[Hymirl]

So the wolves and the rhinos make sure they cannot kill your other squad members when receiving the charge

 

You're probably going to lose the APCs in a combined charge, as well has having to hope that you don't fail the morale test for losing combat when your wolves are killed. It might be technically possible but I don't think its a good tactic.

 

Speaking of uses for wolves I've been struggling to find themuseful. I like the idea of them since they're quite fluffy and reasonably cheap so that if people fight them instead of marines thats fine with me. The problem is that as beasts they can't ride in a transport vehicle, they can't run alongside a bike like they could in the previous codex, which pretty much leaves your character either walking on foot or riding a wolf himself.

 

I find that takes the fun out of it somewhat... I don't like the idea of riding wolves as thats too high on my silly'o'meter and walking is just too slow!

[08ak1]

Wolves bought as Wargear can ride in transports, though they count as two models.

 

Generally if you have the points and room adding wolves is a good idea.

 

Being a separate unit in CC means they're likely to survive unless you force an enemy IC into contact with them some how which as discussed already is a great practice even if your puppies die in the process. This doesn't quite work as intended with a normal unit though as you must remember individual models in a unit don't have to attack base to base, they can attack anything engaged with their unit within 2 inches, so keeping that pesky power fist sergeant away from your IC is difficult if you dont have at least 2 wolves.

 

Obviously they can soak up some nasty wounds thrown your way in shooting which is always good. But, and this is the biggest But about the wargear wolves.... they are casualties for the unit so if you take for instance a Wolf Lord with 2 wolves and on turn 1 a wolf is killed thats a moral check. If you gave your wolf Lord a ThunderWolf mount he could potentially fall back 3d6....just bear it in mind.

 

 

a great unit for using wolves would be a Wolf lord with 2 wargear wolves, accompanied by a unit of 10 or so Fast Attack wolves. This gives the unit a model count of 13 and makes them large enough that getting cover saves shouldn't be too difficult. Put your Lord at the front so he wont have any issues getting BSB in assaults and use the mass of wolves to Multi assault everything! During your assaults your opponent has 3 Units to split his attacks on which can really help.

[Lumdin]

Wargear wolves can ride in transports. They just take up 2 spots instead of 1.

 

I think it was in the errata.

 

The fen wolf packs can not ride in transports.

[Lumdin]

I have used thewar gear wolves to deflect attacks from my unit in cases where I have charged 2 or 3 units at a time.

 

I keep the wolves on one unit and have the rest of my unit in base contact with the other units and I usually win combat.

 

Tricky , because of keeping unit integrity and following rules of trying to get your models in base to base contact.

 

I have pulled it off about 5 out of the last 8 games.

[eyeslikethunder]

So the wolves and the rhinos make sure they cannot kill your other squad members when receiving the charge

The problem is that as beasts they can't ride in a transport vehicle, they can't run alongside a bike like they could in the previous codex, which pretty much leaves your character either walking on foot or riding a wolf himself.

 

 

 

The codexes states that wolves may ride in transports if taken as wargear they just take 2 slots instead of 1 C:SW p31 loyal companions rule