Drop Pods and deployment

[Prosedragon]

When you deploy a drop pod the squad or dreadnought inside deploy 2" from the drop pod, but do you deploy 2" from the body of the drop pod, or 2" from the petals? It seems like its a bit of gamesmanship to deploy 2" from the petals, but I can't see any reason why that's not the case. Assuming you don't glue it shut.

 

Thanks for your help!

[Leonaides]

Deploy 2" from the access point. If it was a Landraider, you'd deploy 2" from teh body of the tank, not teh door (if it was extended down). If it was a Rhino side-hatch you'd do likewise. The access points (for want of a better term) on a drop pod are clearly the holes left in the sides when the petals are lowered. Otherwide, I can se lots of landriaders with extended front access ramps - suddenly a turn 1 charge is far more likely!

[Prosedragon]

The BRB says you can disembark anywhere within 2" of any point of an open-topped vehicle. That seems cut-and-dried to me, but...it just seems so open to abuse. If you can deploy that far away from where the vehicle lands scattering is just not a big deal at all. I also got called out on it the other day, so...just thought I'd ask if there was an official ruling and what rules supported it.

 

And yes - some day I'm going to get ambitious and glue a ruler to the hatch of my land raider. 12" move, 2" disembark, 6" assault, 12" ramp = 32" threat range ;)

[Grey Mage]

For the purposes of such things, you only count the "hull" of the vehicle, just like you do for shooting at the vehicle. The petals on a DP are not part of the hull, but where they join the base is.

[angry man]

i would say that the doors are more of a cosmetic thing - like on rhino chassis and LRs, its not essential that they open

 

AM

[Isiah]

Yes this has come up before with regards open-topped vehicles/deployment/pod doors. For the purposes of this particular case pod doors were regarded as decoration so measurements from the hull only.

[thade]

Yes this has come up before with regards open-topped vehicles/deployment/pod doors. For the purposes of this particular case pod doors were regarded as decoration so measurements from the hull only.

 

^ This.

[Prosedragon]

Is there any support in the BRB for this? I understand its the common sense application, and I know there's a rule about modeling for an advantage, but its a GW model, and the rule regarding open-topped vehicles is the clearest applicable rule I can see.

 

I'm not trying to be a tool, just wondering if there is an official rule I've missed, or if its just a widely accepted house rule.

[Gavin]

I personally wouldn't consider a drop pod an 'open topped' vehicle, because if you were to model it close, or close the doors, it would be a completely enclosed vehicle.

The hatches (doors/petals) of the drop pod 'blow open' after impact to allow the contained unit to disembark.

[Grey Mage]

Is there any support in the BRB for this? I understand its the common sense application, and I know there's a rule about modeling for an advantage, but its a GW model, and the rule regarding open-topped vehicles is the clearest applicable rule I can see.

 

I'm not trying to be a tool, just wondering if there is an official rule I've missed, or if its just a widely accepted house rule.

The BRB, pg. 56 states that you measure to and from the hull unless your shooting. Since you must be deployed within 2" of the vehicle, you must therefore measure to and from the hull.

 

The petals are not part of the hull any more than the hatches on the back of a waveserpent are hull.

[Prosedragon]

Point taken - here's my counterargument though: specific rules trump general rules, right?

 

General: when measuring distances, measure from the hull (BRB p. 56)

Specific: models may disembark within 2" of any point of an open topped vehicle (BRB p. 70)

 

If the first rule (specific trumps general) isn't right then I completely agree with you, Grey Mage. Congrats on being made mod., btw!

 

Another thought, in support of the BRB authors' intent with the specific rule. The rules state that you measure range and line of site from the hull of an open-topped vehicle. Two sentences later they say models can embark or disembark within 2" of any point of the vehicle. I know the writers of the BRB aren't lawyers, and probably aren't even English majors, but to make a distinction within 2 sentences, especially a potentially big one, lends credibility to my position.

 

Is the rule that specific trumps general in the BRB? Did I just make that up? If so, I lose, and my apologies.

[thade]

Prosedragon, my man: you should really dig with the search engine on this question instead of belaboring it in this thread. :/ I forsee this one getting closed, as in my time here I've seen this very subject batted around in exactly this way at least four times.

 

Here's the gist: Consider a player that glues his hatches shut. Happens all the time. Now, consider an opponent that glues his hatches open. Not as frequent, but why not? Should such a simple modeling-change really have such a MASSIVE benefit? Those hatches are pretty long and make a considerable difference in range from the drop pod.

 

The conclusion that was reached each time was that "hull" does not count the leaves. Thematically you'd want to stand the SM on the leaves anyway, as they are stepping out of the DP once the hatches blow. It looks cool: that's what the leaves are for. =)

[Grey Mage]

Point taken - here's my counterargument though: specific rules trump general rules, right?

 

General: when measuring distances, measure from the hull (BRB p. 56)

Specific: models may disembark within 2" of any point of an open topped vehicle (BRB p. 70)

 

If the first rule (specific trumps general) isn't right then I completely agree with you, Grey Mage. Congrats on being made mod., btw!

 

Another thought, in support of the BRB authors' intent with the specific rule. The rules state that you measure range and line of site from the hull of an open-topped vehicle. Two sentences later they say models can embark or disembark within 2" of any point of the vehicle. I know the writers of the BRB aren't lawyers, and probably aren't even English majors, but to make a distinction within 2 sentences, especially a potentially big one, lends credibility to my position.

 

Is the rule that specific trumps general in the BRB? Did I just make that up? If so, I lose, and my apologies.

Ah, but the vehicle itself only takes up the space of the hull. You dont count the petals for the purposes of movement either.... they are truely purely decorative- one reason why my pods are glued shut.

[thade]

Ah, but the vehicle itself only takes up the space of the hull. You dont count the petals for the purposes of movement either.... they are truely purely decorative- one reason why my pods are glued shut.

 

Glued shut = easier to transport for sure. I may magnetize or pin mine...when I get around to building them. c.c

[Prosedragon]

Is the "specific trumps general" rule in the BRB? Or is that just a rule of construction for interpreting the rules? Or did I make it up? I will admit that the last is possibly true. If I can get an answer though I'll be content to let the thread receive the Emperor's Peace.

 

As to the other thread discussing this - I've searched through the first 3 pages of results after searching "drop pod", "drop pod deployment" and "drop pod disembark" - I didn't see anything. Sorry to belabour an issue already decided, I figured it had been asked already but I couldn't find a thread discussing it.

 

Thanks for the responses everyone!

[Frosty the Pyro]

Is the "specific trumps general" rule in the BRB? Or is that just a rule of construction for interpreting the rules? Or did I make it up? I will admit that the last is possibly true. If I can get an answer though I'll be content to let the thread receive the Emperor's Peace.

Its a rule from the BrB.... Of a different game. It's a DnD rule, not 40k. 40k just has codex trumps BrB.

[Prosedragon]

I KNEW I had heard that rule before! At least I'm not going crazy. If this were DnD then I believe I would be correct. As this is DnD in space, I will admit that Grey Mage's rule applies, and you all were correct.

 

Thanks everyone!

[Voltaire]

Wait a moment. A conclusion has been reached due convinience?

The doors of the drop pod are a part of the hull upon it's inital landing, they open to release the occupants.

Therefore wouldn't the doors still be a part of the hull, but merely spread further apart?

 

 

Also the rules to the droppod specifically state that it counts as opentopped for all intents and purposes once it deepstrikes. Therefore it should be 2 inches from the doors themselves. Or 'petals' if you will.

[Grey Mage]

Wait a moment. A conclusion has been reached due convinience?

The doors of the drop pod are a part of the hull upon it's inital landing, they open to release the occupants.

Therefore wouldn't the doors still be a part of the hull, but merely spread further apart?

 

 

Also the rules to the droppod specifically state that it counts as opentopped for all intents and purposes once it deepstrikes. Therefore it should be 2 inches from the doors themselves. Or 'petals' if you will.

By that logic the assault ramp on a landraider would be part of the hull. Thankfully the BRB specificly lists ramps as one of the peices of a model that are NOT included in the hull.

 

The "petals" of a DP are ramps, you can walk up them into the pod.

[Voltaire]

Then one would argue that petals and ramps are two different things for the sake of rules and gameplay, no?

[thade]

Then one would argue that petals and ramps are two different things for the sake of rules and gameplay, no?

 

Since the petals *are* ramps, I don't see how.

 

The "hull" of a vehicle doesn't ever include flaps, ramps, or doors. Otherwise I'd be modding all of my Drop Pods such that the petals fold out three times upon dropping, giving me a 3' radius in which to deploy. What's to stop me? It's hull, right? =P No. Not it is not.

[Commander Sasha]

If the petals don't count as part of the hull, can My and other model's walk across them? If purely decorative, are no longer part of the vehicle, are they not now free ground, or at most difficult terrain?

 

You don't get this problem with Coke can proxies!

[thade]

If the petals don't count as part of the hull, can My and other model's walk across them? If purely decorative, are no longer part of the vehicle, are they not now free ground, or at most difficult terrain?

 

You don't get this problem with Coke can proxies!

 

Yes, the petals are terrain, effectively. Yes things can walk/drive over them. These are reasons people spray their models with matte varnish to protect them....or glue the petals shut. <3

[Prosedragon]

Wow, this is still going on? That's awesome - I want it known I had no part in the continuing discussion.

 

Where does it say ramps aren't counted as part of the model?

[Isiah]

Wow, this is still going on? That's awesome - I want it known I had no part in the continuing discussion.

Oh but you are :blush:.

 

Where does it say ramps aren't counted as part of the model?

Disembarking distances are measured from the vehicle's access point (p67 BRB] and see diagram on that page too – no open doors there!!. However by RAW open-topped vehicles of which a drop pod is, don't have specific access points no matter what the actual model looks like. This means that measurements should be taken from the hull otherwise it presents a monstrous advantage to those who model their pods with doors that can open.

 

More importantly though, there are no 'rules' as such that specifically require vehicle doors (of any kind) to physically open at all. Troops merely get out of designated 'access points', or, from open-topped vehicles, to just clamber out wherever they can. So from a game mechanic perspective, ramps, doors, petals can be ignored. They serve as visual representation of reality yes, but don't play any part in the game mechanic.

 

The issue arises of Line of Sight through pods – and this does need sorting out with regards these petals one way or the other, i.e yes you get LOS through a pod or no you don't LOS through a pod whether they are pysically open or not. But that's for another topic :lol:.

 

Cheers

I