Deamonhosts Everywhere

[Dr Duck]

Had an interesting game last night: pitted my Purest grey knights against a friends Radical Daemonhunters.

 

The crux of the (1500pt) game was the 6 daemonhosts that rocked up and pretty much tied down my entire troop roster from the first turn onwards. With Psycannons and Incinerators all locked in CC i was never able to get a good number of Armour Piercing shoots against the swines.

 

Admitedly i had some bad luck in the game, such as my land raider gunner clearly being drunk and a plasma cannon shot landing bang on to a squad of Grey Knight Terminators that had just teleported in (wiping 3 of them out), but the story of the game was these infernal deamonhosts just tieing up my force.

 

Anyone got a good counter for them, as i'm a bit stumped to how i could have played the game differently

[Souba]

Ive played such a game once myself. also at 1500 points. first thing to note : Deamonhosts are 0-1 choise as of C:DH so you are able to play 3 at max.

 

given that you had some bad luck with that plasma cannon and your terminators but they are mostly the safest way to kill the deamonhosts in the assault. sure Deamonhsots got S6 or with little luck S7-9 but they still dont hit with power weapons so your pretty save against them. even with a group of standart PAGK you can easily dish out enough wounds in assault that his 4++ wont save his life.

 

otherwise, yeah shoot him to death with psycannons if you got the chance. or hope you get a little luck like i did as my land raider shot with both of his Lasercannon 2 deamon hosts to death in the 2nd turn.. god i love machine spirit :)

[Dr Duck]

First thing to note : Deamonhosts are 0-1 choise as of C:DH so you are able to play 3 at max.

 

That's rather key, i'd better tell him as he planned to buy a further 3 to make a total of 9. He was under the impression the limit was the fact he can only have 3 elite choices

 

 

terminators are mostly the safest way to kill the deamonhosts in the assault.

 

I was again largely unlucky with their hits, only about a 30% hit rate and the resultant wounds never seemed enough to bring them down. My remaining Terminator Sqaud (I field 2) did have to deal with 3 of them though so were just overwhelmed

 

or hope you get a little luck like i did as my land raider shot with both of his Lasercannon

 

Quite the opposite of what I had. At its lowest point my Landraider only managed 1 hit in 2 turns (that's 6/7 rolls ending as a 1 or 2)

 

I think overall its the first point that explains the issue though. GW never intended anyone to have 6 of them flying round the board. Having to deal with 3 would have either meant my terminators were completely free to get on with winning the mission or that my 2 power armoured GK squads would have been un-molested and able to do likewise

 

Also as a further point. Can a radical army take a GK dreadnought. Its not a GK in terms of it being affected by the GK special rules, but based on its very name there is a GK inside the hull who probably wouldn't be in favour of his resident inquisitor raining in the demonic support?

[Souba]

well if you manage one single wound with a laser cannon on a deamonhost its bye bye for him cbecause of the double strength vs Toughness rule.. if he hower got that psi power that grants him more strength and toughness its another story...

 

sadly you cant take a Cybot in a radical army. for a cybot you need a brother captain or grand master as HQ choise wich wont work with radicals.

 

but to take better care against demonhosts. our psychic hoods is some really potent anti psyker equipment. maybe you should try this one out

[Dr Duck]

Thats 2 significant misreads of the army list rules now as there were 2 Grey Knight dreadnoughts present (actually 4 were present as I had 2 legitimately running round as well ... 'dreadtastic!')

 

Furthermore, i've checked my codex and his two troop choices were enlisted space marines which again I now believe dosn't count as your 'mandatory choice' do they?

 

I'm taking some solice from all this in hindsight, for a moment I thought my tactical knowledge was totally flawed.

[BlackSpike]

Furthermore, i've checked my codex and his two troop choices were enlisted space marines which again I now believe dosn't count as your 'mandatory choice' do they?

You are correct. The base force must take 1 HQ and 2 troops from the base Codex. Inducted forces may be added to this, and still may not break the 2/6/3/3/3 limits.

A DH force must have 2 troop choices of either PAGK or IST.

[Justicar Valius]

Ah but if he takes 2 Codex: SM troops he CAN take a SM dreadnought.

 

Just tell him 2 squads of IST in rhinos with dual meltas and play him at 1750.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The easiest thing to reconstruct his list (legally) is to start with what he HAS to have, and what he obviously likes, then add to it gradually.

 

He MUST have the following:

HQ Inq Lord (0-1)

IST squad

IST squad

 

Then he likes the following:

Daemonhosts (0-1)

SM Tactical squad

SM Tactical squad

SM Dread (0-1)

 

That small list of 7 units gives him the following: 1 HQ, 1 Elites, 4 Troops, 1 Heavy Support

 

Not a bad place to start! He could easily flesh this out with an assassin or DCAs, elites Inquisitor(s), perhaps some SM fast attack choices (assault squad, land speeder, bikes) or some SM heavy support or orbital strike.

 

Now in Apocalypse games that many Daemonhosts is fair game, so he can still use the models (sorta) :)

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Dr Duck, what is your army list, a pure Grey Knights at 1500pts, with 2 termi squads, 2 dreads and a land raider, how big were youre PAGK squads, no ofense but but 2 squads of termies, the tank/Dreads and the pcycannon and incinerators, how did you fit it all in?

[Doomaflatchi]

From the way it sounds, your opponent might actually have an easier time making his list legal if he starts with a Space Marine parent list, and then allies Daemonhunters into it - this allows him to field dreadnoughts and use his Tactical Squads as his troops choice while only making the change of adding a Space Marine HQ. Then, he can ally in an Inquisitor and his Daemonhosts.

 

To my knowledge, this basic model (SM w/ Inq allies) is generally considered the most effective way to put together a radical force.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Starting with SM and adding in the radical DH is the best way to go, and it's legal to boot. Scouts and Tac Marines are far better troop choices than unsupported IST (as much as I like them), and there is simply not enough choices in the DH dex once you remove GK to play a viable and fun list. 2 Tactical Squads with Rhinos, plus a generic Captain or Librarian comes to about 500-550 pt. Plenty of room for SM dreadnoughts, an Inquisitor Lord, plus 3 Daemonhosts and anything else from either codex to top up.

 

GK of any flavour should have no trouble wiping out Daemonhosts, in combat or assault, unless he rolls a lucky bloodboil. Storm Bolters are great against them, Psycannons are murder, and all that S6 in combat just pounds them into the dust. If he hasn't got warp strength for that round, use S8+ weaponry for instant death. Cover is of no use to them, and with TLOS those high strength shots are much easier to place upon them. Point your TLLC from your LR at them and watch them disappear. Really Daemonhosts are up their with Chaos Spawn as (rules wise) terribly underpowered choices.

[Dr Duck]

Dr Duck, what is your army list, a pure Grey Knights at 1500pts, with 2 termi squads, 2 dreads and a land raider, how big were youre PAGK squads, no ofense but but 2 squads of termies, the tank/Dreads and the pcycannon and incinerators, how did you fit it all in?

 

The army list is here

 

I've been experimenting with minimal spend on the general in my armies as I never felt they delivered their points worth in the realities of a battle.

 

I found that in assault everything just got either saved or picked up by the vast number of wounds they had. Although it should be noted that due to the number of them i was against we are talking 1 or 2 GK's against each Daemonhost only which changes the equation slightly