can land speeders hunt tanks?

[7Thunders]

Hey guys.

GAAWWD!! I got totally Pwned tonight B) I won't go into too many details,

but needless to say I think i need to make a change in my line up.

 

I'm currently using a 1850 pts. crimson fist army. quick rundown of the list is below.

 

pedro

librarian

8 man sternguard

8 man vanguard

5 man scout sqd

5 man termies (black reach)

1 dread

10 man tac sqd Missle launcer / melta

2 rhinos

1 predator (all las)

....Anyways that's just the quick of it. The army it's self has been doing ok,except for the VANGUARD ;)

first off 400 points is too much for what these guys Did not bring to the table. -_-

 

So I was thinking,what if I dropped the Vanguards in favor of 2 land speeders?

would these help in tying up tanks?

my biggest problem seems to be Land raiders,of any type. I just can't seem to crack them.

they either blow the hell out of me,or just run right over me,and keep on going :)

 

Or I could just go buy a Land raider my self. ;)

Either way I need to make a decision MAY is the last month I will be able to order anything for awhile,so I want

to make a good addition to the Fist's

anyone care to give advice.

 

P.S The vanguard got into a fight with a vindicator and another land raider crusader...... :cuss B) Yea

real good times there folks ;)

[FlamingDeth]

Land speeders with multimeltas are one of the best tank hunting units in the game, and frequently a better value for the points than vanguard (depending on how their kitted). I'd definitely go for it.

[ImperialReaper]

Yes they can!

 

Even if they dont have the options on lasercannons and other heavy weapons - the multimelta is realy powerfull and the typhoon rocket launchers can give you some extra damage.

The best thing about the landraider however is that is way more agile than a tank. So you should be able to position your landspeeders in a way the enemy tanks do not have any covers saves available (I found this be gibbest downside - I also play a predator with lasercannons but the enemy nearly always gets a cover save). In many cases you should even be able to get behind the enemy tank so you can hit his rear armor. Rear armor hit up close with a multimelta and 2 rockets should at least immobilize the tank.

[waaanial00]

I have faced off against a couple of AV14 tanks in my time (both Landraiders and Battlewagons) and for me you have to decide first of all whether they are worth killing?

 

Generally I find myself not shooting at it, instead concentrating more on what I can kill effectively and quickly, thus making the Landraider do more and more in order to justify its inclusion (same goes for the Battlewagon). After a couple of games with just the Landraider on the table people seem to get the point and dont include them so much.

 

However in order to be able to kill them you are probably going to need some speedy Melta. For me the thing to get are single MM landspeeders, 2 of them. Thats 120 points, not expensive at all but more than capable of penetrating a Raider with an average amount of luck (many a time both miss or worse still fail to even glance on the 2d6, which is not that hard to do!).

 

Most would suggest going MM/HF in order to keep a balance on your speeders however I have yet to bother with the HF as I dont like being THAT close to the enemy with my AV10 vehicles.

 

Nothing in the marine list can compare to the chase down ability of the landspeeder with MM, being able to (largely) ignore terrain allows for an almost access all areas approach to gaming, there is almost nowhere to hide that the speeders arent going to be able to get to. Being able to move 12" and shoot the MM also allows you to avoid cover saves from buildings as well with a bit of decent movement and positioning (depending on the scenery of course).

 

I use mine as kind of counter attack in most games, they either deploy behind LOS blocking terrain and wait for the raiders to come to me OR they go in reserve and drop down where I absolutely need them on the turn they arrive.

 

Dont leave them out in the open and I wouldnt suggest darting them down your enemies throat and counting on the cover save to keep you alive and shooting.

 

Happy (tank) hunting

 

Wan

 

EDIT: Changed a landraider to a landspeeder, my addled brain keeps getting them wrong.

[Brother Captain Josef]

+1 to the Cardinal, and he's a cardinal so who are we to argue!

 

Your other option is MM bikes. They are 10pts cheaper, have a lower profile, can claim a 3+ cover but are less mobile and cannot turbo through terrain where as the speeder can just fly over it. Either way take two or more of them.

[Brother Captain Josef]

Nothing in the marine list can compare to the chase down ability of the landraider with MM, being able to (largely) ignore terrain allows for an almost access all areas approach to gaming

 

As ever Wan has a clear and insightful piece of advice but I think he means landspeeder -_-

[Ookami_81]

Hey guys.

GAAWWD!! I got totally Pwned tonight -_- I won't go into too many details,

but needless to say I think i need to make a change in my line up.

 

I'm currently using a 1850 pts. crimson fist army. quick rundown of the list is below.

 

pedro

librarian

8 man sternguard

8 man vanguard

5 man scout sqd

5 man termies (black reach)

1 dread

10 man tac sqd Missle launcer / melta

2 rhinos

1 predator (all las)

....Anyways that's just the quick of it. The army it's self has been doing ok,except for the VANGUARD <_<

first off 400 points is too much for what these guys Did not bring to the table. -_-

 

Ouch ! You've got onely one full troop choice ? You sure ? What do you do of the second Rhino ? Oh, you've got Pedro, don't that allow you to have sterns as ops ?

Some comments on your list:

- Vanguards are nice and I love them, but they are too costy for less than 2K pts. Drop them.

- What do you do with your scouts ? If sniping 5 is much too less, go for 8 or 10. Otherwise in general I think scouts, event more than tacts, should be taken en masse. I've got myself 5 of them, and I nearly never use them: too fragile and without any kind of effisciency.

- Same with tact Termies. What you want are cyclone lauchers or assault cannons, so basicaly you choose between them or Sterns. If you choose them go to ten, but it's a pointsink and you shouldn't discard Sterns with your HQ. So I would not take them. If you want TDAs, assault ones are good, but you need a Land Raider Crusader.

- An all las predator is not woth its points IMHO. Better having the combi one, las sponsons and autocannon. It will save points for...

 

What you need to kill tanks and build a fast firebase:

- Anti-tank, you've got two options: Landspeeder with Multimelta, and Assault Bike with Multi-melta. Both have their advantages, search on this forum. My heart goes with MM AB, but, hey, I love bikes. :P

- Anti-nearly everything, but less effiscient anti-tank, you want Landspeeder Typhoons. Perfect to kill many things from transport to light or even tough troops, MCs, everything except heavy tanks.

 

Hope that helps !

 

Oh, and, yeah, Vindicators are excellents. Want them, have them, but you have to expect they won't last long, except if you use them stuck in a cover to create à 24" bubble of peace in front of it. Good thing is it'll give maybe one free turn or two to your bikes or landspeeders to perform their nasty work on the hostile tanks/transports before getting shot down by angry now-footsloggers :lol: .

[Giga]

Land speeders with multimeltas and heavy flamers are absolutely awesome. Having a squadron of 2 or 3 is a really really nice way to have great anti-tank and great anti-infantry, all in a single, fast-moving package.

[Ookami_81]

Yeah, they rock, but I tend to think that the landspeeder is a somewhat fragile unit -_-.

 

So I prefer keeping them at a distance (typhoon powa') or make them expandable and cheap (MM OR HF) and use them in suicide missions. I prefer MM ABikes, but I have to tell that I'm always short of HF <_< ...

[7Thunders]

What if I get 2, and just run one of each kind?

would that solve the problems,or be too varied?

[waaanial00]

1 MM will defy the laws of statistics and miss evertime (its called melta luck)

 

However 1 Typhoon is worth it, in fact any number of Typhoons are worth it. Even 9! I really hope they dont nerf them in a future release, they arent overpowered but useful. Make the Assault cannon 20 points and I would take that, the fact that its 40 is the only thing that holds it back. Would make for a great middle of the road speeder at 70 points. Still I digress...

 

You need 2 MM to achieve the job of 1, or so I have found anyway.

 

Wan

[Ookami_81]

Then the question is, points wise, can you buy two speeders with one MM on each, or one speeder with two ? Cheaper, but brittle and not that mobile... That's why I prefer MM AB: cheaper. For landspeeders, I go with Backyard Typhoons of Death. ;)

[gettothegone]

1 MM will defy the laws of statistics and miss evertime (its called melta luck)

 

IHATEMELTASHOTSSOMUCH

 

 

.... thats why I try to cram Vulkan wherever I can.

[Velkairiwyth]

I have found speeders to be an invaluable utility against any force. I agree with a poster above regarding not taking Heavy Flamers - IO dont like to get that close unless its on a suicide run to try to take out a tank.

 

I have had battles where a squad of speeders has been taken down by one unit (Sammael on his speeder...) and I have had battles where one MM speeder down each flank has proved hugely destructive. I had one speeder slip down a flank, take out an assault termy, then slide past them and immobilise a land raider, survive an assault from a nearbye tactical squad (6s to hit FTW :D ) then slip past the speeder to get a rear-shot on Sammael and immobilise him aswell...

 

My latest favourite is the Typhoon. I had spent months trying to figure out how the Typhoons work, and now I have some tactics, they have proven more than their worth. (2 missiles instead of twin linked = yummy.) Heavy Bolter + Typhoon launcher means 36/48" shooting range - and moving at 12" you can still fire all weapons if you use frag missiles, or can snipe from extreme range with two krak missiles a piece.

 

Hawdiggity if I don want to get myself a forgeworld landspeeder :/ (£33 for a speeder with enclosed cabin and missile launchers on the wings - would treat it like a typhoon, but very sexxy... if too expensive at the moment :P)

[Wildfire]

MM attack bikes is where SM anti-tank is these days.

[thade]

pedro

librarian

8 man sternguard

8 man vanguard

5 man scout sqd

5 man termies (black reach)

1 dread

10 man tac sqd Missle launcer / melta

2 rhinos

1 predator (all las)

 

A few thoughts here.

 

I bet your Vanguard has jump packs and they're kitted out with each a power weapon at least, right? That's HUGE points. Do one of two things with Vanguard:

- If you want them to fly, kit them out like an assault squad with only one power weapon (a PF); do NOT DS/heroic intervention with them. They are for counter charging in your home base. Fast response. They will not survive if they are mid to deep field.

- If you want to kit them out for mid to deep field, don't give them jump packs. Put them in a Rhino (or a LR) and take one or two of them with storm shields only. Then for every model with a power weapon, take a model that has no upgrades...that way when you take wounds to teh squad, you don't necessarily lose a power weapon.

 

All las-cannon predator = too expensive for it's role in my opinion. Drop the lascannons and go with the autocannon, maybe with the HBs.

 

Maybe throw a CML on the terminators.

 

You'll want another tactical squad at least. Another ML will go a long way. You can also give that scout unit a ML.

 

If your opponent has a LR then you'll want put melta guns into your tactical squad(s) instead of flamers. Also, that MM dreadnought is golden. Keep him in cover though. Your opponent would be smart to smoke it, especially if it's the only melta in your army.

[Ming]

Put three speeders in a squadron, deep strike them to get the best shot, and make sure it counts that way. If you have a squadron of three, and they deep strike on the rear armor of a squadron of three Lehman Russ tanks...and roll three hits, three pens, three wrecked or better, you are living la vi da loca!

[Hellios]

also consider a land speeder storm...

[templargdt]

A squadron of two MM/HF landspeeders is one of my favorite units in the codex; very flexible and very effective at anti-armor and anti-infantry. Highly recommended.

[bystrom]

Some like to use land speeder storms with 5-man CCW scout squads with combi-melta & melta bomb for potential first-turn strikes (though the two units have other uses as well). Its a gambit, but its worth considering (especially if your five scouts are CCW or shotgun scouts). I have no experience with it myself so can't say if its good or not. I can say that the units will almost certainly NOT kill two land raiders. You'd have to rely on the storm's BS3 to hit with a multi-melta, getting first turn, along with the usual of actually destroying the land raiders (or immobilising).

[darrkespur]

I'd definitely add a heavy weapon to your tactical terminators - the cheapest way to do this is to buy the dark angels veteran box set. For £12 you get a really awesome set of five robed marines which are great as sternguard with their DA symbols rubbed off, but it also contains a load of terminator bits, including an assault cannon arm which you can easily transplant for a black reach storm bolter.

 

I also think the dual linked lascannon adds costs up unneccesarily on the predator, the combi autocannon is a better option for the cost. MM/HF landspeeders are definitely effective too. I love the idea of vanguard, but they're hard to make them work costwise. However, the best I've seen them is when they are paired with Pedro for his extra attacks on the charge - putting them on foot in a rhino with pedro would lower their cost to more manageable levels but also make a nice combo with your HQ.

[DerekLee688]

Generaly one or two MM are enough to take out one land raider, but arn't in great odds of doing so. It is possible to kill a two wound terminator armor & SS with a single guards man, but it probalby won't happen.

 

To pic Anti-AV14 you got to decide what you want to settle for.

Mobility vs. survivalbility.

Cost vs. number of shots.

 

The most popular choices of Land speeders with MM or MM/HF, and MM attack bikes stress mobility at low cost.

Sternguard in drop pod stress number of shots and mobility at the cost of survival and price tag.

 

Personaly, I like to run 10x sternguard in a rhino just to mass murder infanry. I'm going to try the same unit with 6 combi-meltas. Not spectacularly fast, but is durable with 6 melta shots for the additional cost of only 30pts. I don't know about others, but where I play is becoming more and more crowded with vehicles, this might work perfectly.

[7Thunders]

Well,for starters,I have officially dropped the Vanguard.

They just cost too much,and do not get the job done the way I like.

 

I have ordered 2 land speeders. But when they get here,I still am undecided

on how i want to build them.

 

I have considered the sternguard/drop pod combo using melta and plasma.

my only problem is:

lack of expierience with this,and

After the drop pod hits,it really does'nt do much after that.

[thade]

Well,for starters,I have officially dropped the Vanguard.

They just cost too much,and do not get the job done the way I like.

 

Sad to see you gave up on them; I love my Vanguard. If you kit them out the way I suggested, and they're a smaller % of your army cost (bigger force fielded, more tac squads) you might have a better time with them. They make outstanding homebase defense (as they can stay hidden them come out and introduce whoever wants to contest your home objective to a world of hurt).

 

 

I have ordered 2 land speeders. But when they get here,I still am undecided

on how i want to build them.

 

Given that your objective was anti-vehicle, I'd recommend the MM. =)

 

I have considered the sternguard/drop pod combo using melta and plasma.

my only problem is:

lack of expierience with this,and

After the drop pod hits,it really does'nt do much after that.

 

Well, they still have legs. :mellow: But I agree, they will feel a bit vulnerable out there on their own. Give them a Librarian with Gate of Infinity, and jump them around the table.

[Cedric]

I have ordered 2 land speeders. But when they get here,I still am undecided

on how i want to build them.

 

Build them with magnets! Being able to convert your landspeeder to anything but a Storm is incredibly satisfying.

Drill a hole, glue a magnet and voilá; you can now retool your toys for different jobs.